Why Capitalism makes us sick

[JJJA]

[MENTION=14308]Xroads[/MENTION]this isn't the first time that a forum member has tried to make things personal because they didn't like what I said, despite my being completely on-topic and never making personal attacks. I challenge those that wish to make it personal to name one instance in-which I made a personal attack. Name ONE. It's always the attackers that resort to playing the victim as soon as they are called out for the charlatan self-righteous narcisissts they are. Get over yourselves.

 

[Skarekrow]

As opposed to the preferred Antisocial Anti-Justice Wimps?

I doubt that anybody who clicked on here even bothered to find out what the video was speaking about. It is about how the capitalist lifestyle is bad for our mental and physical health. There is plenty of empirical evidence of this: high blood pressure, coronary heart disease, type two diabetes, depression, anxiety, etc...

I read Dr. Maté's book 'In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts'. It's brilliant. I don't agree with all of his theories, but his explanations of the common human drive to avoid pain and maximize pleasure are spot on. Some humans just have more pain to escape. Any of us who think that we are better than those who are the bottom of the food chain in this society, instead of just being luckier, are just deluding ourselves. That self-serving thought pattern is another form of human weakness.

“The Realm of Hungry Ghosts” is a fantastic book.
I have a few videos of him talking about addiction on my thread, the man is really brilliant.

We are bombarded in every sense just about everywhere we go and in everything we do by things trying to make us feel “less than”, we are sold products based on future fears like - “Buy this or you’ll get wrinkles around your eyes."
“Buy this car and you are sophisticated and will have a nice suit and get the chick and drive really fast without the cops doing anything in reality”
“Take these vitamins or you’ll get sick.”
But it doesn’t just stop there, we have social situations to consider - “Did you see that show last night and what happened?” Queue the strange looks when I say “No.”
“Wanna go have drinks at so and so’s?” “No.” more strange looks.
It doesn’t bother me because I really just don’t care nor do I want to hang out with them (though I still keep getting invited ugh).
Anyhow…of topic slightly…

These claims can be easily measured by statistical information quite easily.

These are the MOST stress out countries - http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-stressed-out-countries

Here is a list of the LEAST stressed out - http://www.hcplive.com/physicians-money-digest/lifestyle/least-stressed-out-countries-lbj

As far as the connection between Capitalism and that society having more stress than those that are less of a capitalistic society, I can see some reasoning to it.
If more of Maslow’s pyramid are met without struggle then it would make sense that less stress would follow naturally.
This doesn’t mean that we should move toward a society that eliminates the Capitalist system, but that we should try a bit harder to perhaps fulfill the basic needs of said Capitalist system.
Being a Capitalist society while also maintaining working social programs do not have to rival one another…in fact they can work well in unison when done properly.
It’s when (like we have done in the US) we let it go unregulated and unchecked that we begin to see the more obvious and harsh consequences of being on the losing end of the system.

 

[La Sagna]

As far as the connection between Capitalism and that society having more stress than those that are less of a capitalistic society, I can see some reasoning to it.
If more of Maslow’s pyramid are met without struggle then it would make sense that less stress would follow naturally.
This doesn’t mean that we should move toward a society that eliminates the Capitalist system, but that we should try a bit harder to perhaps fulfill the basic needs of said Capitalist system.
Being a Capitalist society while also maintaining working social programs do not have to rival on another…in fact they can work well in unison when done properly.
It’s when (like we have done in the US) we let it go unregulated and unchecked that we begin to see the more obvious and harsh consequences of being on the losing end of the system.

I agree. I don't advocate replacing capitalism, but I think that we need to be very critical of it and to find ways to make it work better and to limit the harm it can cause. When we can't look at it critically is when we get sucked in to it and adopt ways that harm us physically and mentally.

 

[j654dgj7]

Let's take a step back: what is capitalism?
The term just refers to ownership; possession of "capital". Capital is more than money, it is the right to own land and trade commodities. Any other meaning that we put into it is decided by our culture and political climate.

Why is this important? Because of everything that it does not inherently refer to. It does not dictate labor restrictions, taxation, or the role of government.

That means that any system that recognizes the right to own property and trade goods is a system run by "capitalism".

Putting anything more into the term other than how money is treated is subjective.

For that reason, capitalism does not endorse or reject the way of life described in the video. Rather it comments on the current way that we have modeled the western way of life. You can have strong unions, big government and fair wages and still be a capitalist country. That are some of the reasons why Scandinavia is consistently rated the best place in the world to do business. That and the rain. People love the rain. And the cold weather. And the canned fish.

 

[Skarekrow]

I agree. I don't advocate replacing capitalism, but I think that we need to be very critical of it and to find ways to make it work better and to limit the harm it can cause. When we can't look at it critically is when we get sucked in to it and adopt ways that harm us physically and mentally.

It is possible, but it’s going to take a lot of work…especially now that somehow in ‘Murica the word and idea of “freedom” has been purposefully been made synonymous with “capitalism” which is ridiculous.

Let's take a step back: what is capitalism?
The term just refers to ownership; possession of "capital". Capital is more than money, it is the right to own land and trade commodities. Any other meaning that we put into it is decided by our culture and political climate.

Why is this important? Because of everything that it does not inherently refer to. It does not dictate labor restrictions, taxation, or the role of government.

That means that any system that recognizes the right to own property and trade goods is a system run by "capitalism".

Putting anything more into the term other than how money is treated is subjective.

For that reason, capitalism does not endorse or reject the way of life described in the video. Rather it comments on the current way that we have modeled the western way of life. You can have strong unions, big government and fair wages and still be a capitalist country. That are some of the reasons why Scandinavia is consistently rated the best place in the world to do business. That and the rain. People love the rain. And the cold weather. And the canned fish.

That is why you are way up on the list and we rank like 50 something…need a roommate or two?

 

[j654dgj7]

That is why you are way up on the list and we rank like 50 something…need a roommate or two?

Depends. Do you like fish in vinegar and canned shellfish?

 

[Peppermint]

It is not good to make such assumptions about people.

Let's please focus on the topic, rather than on other members. We are better than that.

She's probably right though. And why is it okay to make dismissive comments that don't contribute to the topic, except in an inflammatory way. ie. "here come the SJWs..." and not okay to call it out?

 

[Skarekrow]

Depends. Do you like fish in vinegar and canned shellfish?

Not in the slightest bit….but I’m sure i can find something to eat hahahaha.

She's probably right though. And why is it okay to make dismissive comments that don't contribute to the topic, except in an inflammatory way. ie. "here come the SJWs..." and not okay to call it out?

I couldn’t agree with you more.
It happens all the time, and frankly it’s gotten a bit stale.

 

[Elegant Winter]

He asserts that Capitalism in the United States causes an exceptional level of stress and many alleviate their stress (the sickness he refers to) with drugs (and then become addicted). He then asserts that these people who alleviate their stress with drugs are not responsible for their own addictions and that they never made the choice to be addicted. He asserts that many in the United States are exceptionally stressed and resort to drugs because they have little control over their own lives. And that they're afraid, uncertain and unable to be themselves. He says they are not free from these things - fear, uncertainty and helplessness.

In short, he wants to expand welfare to the point that all stressed people are completely free from such worries. What of the freedom of those who pay for these people to be free of stress? And what of their stress? What of the middle class's stress? He is pandering to the Left. I mean, he's at Berkeley.

I do agree that mothers should have much longer maternal leave and that American culture has gotten increasingly superficial and violent, however. Our culture is unhealthy; that's for sure. There is little emphasis on meaningful relationships, personal growth, healthy competition, excellence, learning, family and so on. There is a lot of emphasis on mindless self-indulgence, instant gratification, superficiality, objectification, violence, celebrities, immoral urban nonsense (such as rap "music"), drug use and so on. I believe that American culture needs to be thoroughly reformed and I believe it is the true culprit here. Young people are idolizing and imitating all the wrong people. It's sad, but there are not many decent and moral role models in modern American culture.

Also, a lot of the problems he claims cause this exceptional level of stress are solved by the traditional family structure. You know, two parents - one working (usually the male), one at home (usually the female). So I imagine he supports the traditional family structure. I agree with that!

 

[Rcs6r]

I listened to the whole thing and it doesn't even sound like he's talking about Capitalism, but rather very complex socio-cultural issues.

 

[Elegant Winter]

According to his logic, Capitalism nearly incapacitates minorities (with a few exceptions). I wonder why that is. Are they genetically susceptible.. to Capitalism?

 

[JJJA]

According to his logic, capitalism nearly incapacitates minorities (with a few exceptions). I wonder why that is. Are they genetically susceptible.. to capitalism?

You can see why I made my first comment. It is classic SJW 'logic' to automatically display sympathy for minorities, despite them being no less disadvantaged as the rest of people in a Capitalist society. That's the beauty of Capitalism: the state is not going to discriminate based on background, because it isn't big enough to do so. Yet, SJWs seem to think that a state which is supposed to be smaller than their dream Utopia (which happens to be a big-government Socialist state) somehow manages to conjure up more power and take away more rights from minorities, but they can never seem to provide sufficient evidence to back up this claim. It's simply a falsehood: Nobody cares where you come from in a Capitalist society. The 'system' does not hold grand plans to consistently oppress you. It's a fantasy cooked up fictitiously by those with very slanted agendas aiming to manipulate discussions on cultural and social issues, and trying to combine them with economic and political issues; creating a new wave of self-entitled people with strong opinions and a very large absence of facts. There is no graph that states Capitalism creates illness, and blaming stress levels on Capitalism is just another giant leap in the direction of ignoring personal responsibilities and personal life choices and circumstances which leads to stress and illness. Capitalism is just a system based on the principle of individual rights, the rule of law and the free-market. Nowhere does the application of systematic oppression or illness fall into this system. Each individual person has their own problems and decisions to make, and each and every person makes their own decision which is very different to the next; blaming so many different problems on a single system is a classic straw-man.

 

[Elegant Winter]

You can see why I made my first comment. It is classic SJW 'logic' to automatically display sympathy for minorities, despite them being no less disadvantaged as the rest of people in a Capitalist society. That's the beauty of Capitalism: the state is not going to discriminate based on background, because it isn't big enough to do so. Yet, SJWs seem to think that a state which is supposed to be smaller than their dream Utopia (which happens to be a big-government Socialist state) somehow manages to conjure up more power and take away more rights from minorities, but they can never seem to provide sufficient evidence to back up this claim. It's simply a falsehood: Nobody cares where you come from in a Capitalist society. The 'system' does not hold grand plans to consistently oppress you. It's a fantasy cooked up fictitiously by those with very slanted agendas aiming to manipulate discussions on cultural and social issues, and trying to combine them with economic and political issues; creating a new wave of self-entitled people with strong opinions and a very large absence of facts. There is no graph that states Capitalism creates illness, and blaming stress levels on Capitalism is just another giant leap in the direction of ignoring personal responsibilities and personal life choices and circumstances which leads to stress and illness. Capitalism is just a system based on the principle of individual rights, the rule of law and the free-market. Nowhere does the application of systematic oppression or illness fall into this system. Each individual person has their own problems and decisions to make, and each and every person makes their own decision which is very different to the next; blaming so many different problems on a single system is a classic straw-man.

Mhm, this is what appeals to me about Capitalism. It's a meritocracy and I believe in meritocracy. No one is artificially elevated to create a perfect picture of equality, for example, which is an obvious injustice to all involved.

As for the mysterious illness that accompanies Capitalism.. complete nonsense. It's a cultural problem and a personal problem, not an economic problem. One can be poor and happy and one can certainly be poor and not a drug addict (simple self-control). Personally, I think urban culture is largely to blame. Most of the, um, sufferers of this mysterious illness live in large cities where urban culture prospers.

 

[invisible]

@Xroadsthis isn't the first time that a forum member has tried to make things personal because they didn't like what I said, despite my being completely on-topic and never making personal attacks. I challenge those that wish to make it personal to name one instance in-which I made a personal attack. Name ONE. It's always the attackers that resort to playing the victim as soon as they are called out for the charlatan self-righteous narcisissts they are. Get over yourselves.

I don't mean to be unkind (and sorry this is off-topic) but I am often seeing you make personal-type attacks on groups of people (or perhaps implied specific people?) rather than responding analytically to arguments. For example, in a recent post somewhere I saw you describe people with an alternative perspective to yours as "idiots". In the start of this thread, you dismissively describe a group of people with the pejorative label "social justice warriors", before anyone had even posted any of their thoughts. In some posts you have called people "manginas". In this post of yours that I am responding to now, you describe some indefinite group of people who may disagree with you as "charlatan self-righteous narcissists". I'm definitely not saying that you don't respond analytically to ideas that are posted on the forum - you certainly do. But these things are examples of personal-type attacks, rather than analytical or reasoned responses to discussions or perspectives. Those types of responses that you write are about the people who discuss perspectives or ideas rather than those actual perspectives or ideas.

 

[La Sagna]

According to his logic, Capitalism nearly incapacitates minorities (with a few exceptions). I wonder why that is. Are they genetically susceptible.. to Capitalism?

It's not Capitalism per se that causes the problems for certain groups, but lack of opportunity and inequity. It is easy for people who were born into a middle class family or an upper class family to look at people who were born into poverty and decide that they should be able to function as well and get out of poverty. However, it is a lot harder to get out of a hole that you happen to be born into not by choice than it is to make sure to walk by the hole and not fall in because you were lucky enough not to be born at the bottom of the hole.

Here is some good information about how children's brains are affected by poverty. It also talks about how children from rich families also face more psychological and behavioural problems. The difference is that they have the buffer of having a family with money.

http://www.psychologicalscience.org...w-poverty-affects-the-brain-and-behavior.html

Also, it talks about evidence that people under financial stress have a lowered IQ than even the same person without the financial stress. People who are in difficult circumstances have more difficulty making smart decisions than those who don't have that type of stress.

What Dr. Maté is really advocating is early intervention social programs to help families so that children have a better chance of having normal brain development which gives them a better chance to get out of poverty, stay away from drugs and crime, and become productive members of society. Investing in early intervention saves money in the long run, through less need for spending in the criminal justice system and health system. It's good economics.

 

[ThomasJ79]

The negative effects of long term stress on physiology is uncontroversial and those those that live in poverty live in a state of chronic stress. It doesn't matter if you're a minority or not, stress is stress, although in my country there are minority groups that are more likely to live in poverty. I'm reminded of a video I watched a couple of years ago

[video=youtube;eYG0ZuTv5rs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYG0ZuTv5rs[/video]

There is nothing inherently "evil" with capitalism. There is something inherently wrong though with how some of us treat one another, on an individual as well as social level.

 

[Elegant Winter]

It's not Capitalism per se that causes the problems for certain groups, but lack of opportunity and inequity. It is easy for people who were born into a middle class family or an upper class family to look at people who were born into poverty and decide that they should be able to function as well and get out of poverty. However, it is a lot harder to get out of a hole that you happen to be born into not by choice than it is to make sure to walk by the hole and not fall in because you were lucky enough not to be born at the bottom of the hole.

Here is some good information about how children's brains are affected by poverty. It also talks about how children from rich families also face more psychological and behavioural problems. The difference is that they have the buffer of having a family with money.

http://www.psychologicalscience.org...w-poverty-affects-the-brain-and-behavior.html

Also, it talks about evidence that people under financial stress have a lowered IQ than even the same person without the financial stress. People who are in difficult circumstances have more difficulty making smart decisions than those who don't have that type of stress.

What Dr. Maté is really advocating is early intervention social programs to help families so that children have a better chance of having normal brain development which gives them a better chance to get out of poverty, stay away from drugs and crime, and become productive members of society. Investing in early intervention saves money in the long run, through less need for spending in the criminal justice system and health system. It's good economics.

Firstly, I appreciate your polite and thoughtful response. You could have said a lot of this with harsher language, but instead you chose neutral language.

"Lack of opportunity and inequity." This has to do with education, no? It's the traditional wellspring of opportunity, after all. Nearly everyone goes to school in the United States; nearly everyone has this opportunity. A central element of urban culture is the rejection of education, however. It's considered too "white." When an individual refuses to advance himself/herself traditionally he/she must advance himself/herself non-traditionally (being a, um, rapper, for example), but, of course, only a relatively small percentage of people can succeed this way. There is very limited opportunity. If instead these individuals fully embraced traditional methods of advancement more would discover opportunity, especially in modern American society. Who is at fault for this rejection? The fault is shared between the culture and individual.

I've never read anything about this kind of IQ drop before, so I'm skeptical. Assuming the test is accurate, which I doubt, the government could re-allocate welfare payments so families with very young children received relatively more money and so on. Early brain development is undoubtedly extremely important. I believe the source of this problem is something else entirely though. Why have children if you are extremely poor? Why have children you will not be able to raise properly? I believe everyone is responsible for their actions, especially when their actions affect others so profoundly.

This may rub you the wrong way, but it solves two problems. What about offering the extremely poor and those with very low IQs an amount of money to have themselves sterilized? I believe this is ethical and it's in accord with my beliefs. It's completely voluntary, it improves society and it is a permanent solution. And the money would help those in need. It would technically be a eugenic program, yes, but I believe it's right.

 

[La Sagna]

Firstly, I appreciate your polite and thoughtful response. You could have said a lot of this with harsher language, but instead you chose neutral language.

"Lack of opportunity and inequity." This has to do with education, no? It's the traditional wellspring of opportunity, after all. Nearly everyone goes to school in the United States; nearly everyone has this opportunity. A central element of urban culture is the rejection of education, however. It's considered too "white." When an individual refuses to advance himself/herself traditionally he/she must advance himself/herself non-traditionally (being a, um, rapper, for example), but, of course, only a relatively small percentage of people can succeed this way. There is very limited opportunity. If instead these individuals fully embraced traditional methods of advancement more would discover opportunity, especially in modern American society. Who is at fault for this rejection? The fault is shared between the culture and individual.

I've never read anything about this kind of IQ drop before, so I'm skeptical. Assuming the test is accurate, which I doubt, the government could re-allocate welfare payments so families with very young children received relatively more money and so on. Early brain development is undoubtedly extremely important. I believe the source of this problem is something else entirely though. Why have children if you are extremely poor? Why have children you will not be able to raise properly? I believe everyone is responsible for their actions, especially when their actions affect others so profoundly.

This may rub you the wrong way, but it solves two problems. What about offering the extremely poor and those with very low IQs an amount of money to have themselves sterilized? I believe this is ethical and it's in accord with my beliefs. It's completely voluntary, it improves society and it is a permanent solution. And the money would help those in need. It would technically be eugenic program, yes, but I believe it's right.

I don't tend to be somebody who uses harsh language. You are entitled to your opinion on matters, even if we disagree. I certainly don't agree with any sterilization programs because I don't believe that there is any group in society that we can trust to make that sort of decision as to who deserves or doesn't deserve to have children. Many of the people at the top who have little or no empathy probably shouldn't be spreading their genes either but because they have money and power they would then get to decide who does and doesn't deserve to have kids. Having money doesn't make you a better person. Some of the poorest people do the most to help other people and those that beat the odds and get themselves out are often the ones who change the world for the better because they understand what it's like to be poor.

The differences in brain development is not about education, it's more about parenting. People that are decent and hard working but are stressed out because of not making enough to support their families don't have the time and attention to give their children so that they can develop in a healthier environment.

Your negative comments obviously directed at black Americans is bypassing completely that there is a great deal of discrimination due to racism, particularly in the U.S. It is an additional barrier that black Americans have to overcome. Yes, they can succeed and do well, but it takes a lot more courage and determination for them to be able to do the same thing that a white American is able to do.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

As opposed to the preferred Antisocial Anti-Justice Wimps?

I doubt that anybody who clicked on here even bothered to find out what the video was speaking about. It is about how the capitalist lifestyle is bad for our mental and physical health. There is plenty of empirical evidence of this: high blood pressure, coronary heart disease, type two diabetes, depression, anxiety, etc...

I read Dr. Maté's book 'In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts'. It's brilliant. I don't agree with all of his theories, but his explanations of the common human drive to avoid pain and maximize pleasure are spot on. Some humans just have more pain to escape. Any of us who think that we are better than those who are the bottom of the food chain in this society, instead of just being luckier, are just deluding ourselves. That self-serving thought pattern is another form of human weakness.

Calling BS. The reason certain diseases are more prevalent in capitalist cultures is because people live longer; and the longer one lives, the more likely one will develop one of the manageable diseases you mentioned.

 

[CindyLou]

What about offering the extremely poor and those with very low IQs an amount of money to have themselves sterilized? I believe this is ethical and it's in accord with my beliefs. It's completely voluntary, it improves society and it is a permanent solution. And the money would help those in need. It would technically be eugenic program, yes, but I believe it's right.

Where is the money going to come from? I'm really uncomfortable with all that. I wouldn't want to be involved.