Why so altruistic, INFJs?

Odyne

Odyne

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Really? What's so great about caring for others without expecting much in return? I read a lot of your posts, blogs and threads, and have been for almost 3 years now. I still can't wrap my head around why you care so much.

I read about how many of you suffer, and how many of you love and never feel loved in return, yet you still want those (who are possibly taking advantage of you) to live a happy life, even if it's at your expense.

I can't understand it, because I know you are not super heroes. You are not strong, you are not perfect, you are not angels or god-sent creatures for the goodness of humanity. You are a weak fragile human being, and I know that if that extreme perspective continues you will be bringing upon yourselves your own demise.


So, why? Why put yourself through that? It's almost insane.


You are denying your own well being and giving it up to someone else who may not even appreciate it. I would understand if it was a mutual thing, and that the ones you care about, care right back. But it's the "give to all" mentality that I can't seem to comprehend, the self-sacrifice.

Honestly, sometimes I think it's foolish and delusional, because most of you don't seem like you can handle it; it's bringing you down, and it brings you nothing but bitterness and resentment (and sometimes you feel guilty about feeling bitter..), or depression and dejection so (again) why?
 
Odyne said:
Really? What's so great about caring for others without expecting much in return? I read a lot of your posts, blogs and threads, and have been for almost 3 years now. I still can't wrap my head around why you care so much.

I read about how many of you suffer, and how many of you love and never feel loved in return, yet you still want those (who are possibly taking advantage of you) to live a happy life, even if it's at your expense.

I can't understand it, because I know you are not super heroes. You are not strong, you are not perfect, you are not angels or god-sent creatures for the goodness of humanity. You are a weak fragile human being, and I know that if that extreme perspective continues you will be bringing upon yourselves your own demise.


So, why? Why put yourself through that? It's almost insane.


You are denying your own well being and giving it up to someone else who may not even appreciate it. I would understand if it was a mutual thing, and that the ones you care about, care right back. But it's the "give to all" mentality that I can't seem to comprehend, the self-sacrifice.

Honestly, sometimes I think it's foolish and delusional, because most of you don't seem like you can handle it; it's bringing you down, and it brings you nothing but bitterness and resentment (and sometimes you feel guilty about feeling bitter..), or depression and dejection so (again) why?
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i can only speak for myself here
i have no idea why i care so much. it's not a decision i make it's a knee jerk reaction to someone else's suffering or need.

i would not necessarily want someone to have a happy life even if it were to be at my expense. sometimes that happens that way but i certainly don't wish it and i'm not ok with it either

i think it's unfair to say infj's are weak human beings, because i tend to consider the traits described to be strong and resilient. otherwise we would crumble to dust from the overwhelming feelings we process. the give it all mentality isn't negative. i think it's rather commendable actually, and more people would benefit from practicing it more often

it feels overwhelming at times yes, but it's never foolish or delusional to want to help or do things for others. it doesn't always bring bitterness and resentment, actually in my case it rarely does.

i think you're looking at worse case scenerio here. there are many gratifying things about being sensitive to others. there are many positive rewards for being there for another person.
yes there is dejection, depression, bitterness and resentment in life, but i don't think it's necessarily any more so than anyone else who has relationships with others. i don't think they are specific to the infj.
 
JGirl said:
i think it's unfair to say infj's are weak human beings, because i tend to consider the traits described to be strong and resilient.
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Before anyone gets offended, I meant that you are human and humans are a fragile and weak species. Not that INFJs specifically are weak and fragile. We all are. All of us, regardless of type.



Sometimes, it seems to me like altruistic people want to transcend their own human nature.
 
Because the world is a terribly cruel place and many of us dont want to add in to that because its so easy to. I know for my part, its not my job to save the world its not my job to fix things and everyone is at a different stage of development so they do things both good and bad. Speaking for myself I choose to push positivity out where I can because thats a personal choice. I cant control what other people think and do, only what I think and do, and I have to be internally consistent to myself otherwise I feel great stress and depression, so I find its much more consistent for me to do kind things and help those I can because thats what I expect myself to do and when I dont do it, I feel like I am letting myself down. In a lot of ways my empathy for people feeds into this, because I cant help but notice how people around me are feeling and I think I always did, it grew out of a love for my little brothers and animals as a boy, and seeing so many unhappy people and just wanting them to feel happy, so I guess I internalized that into some sort of idealism that makes me choose to do the right thing as opposed to the selfish thing, which so many other people do. I dont blame them for that, its a rational way to be in this world, but I only partially reside in this world I reside in my own world and its a far cry from what the physical world decrees. I can only do my part and I choose for my part to be to add something of note to a world so rife with shit.

Plus I dont find any worth really in material things, whereas most people do... I find myself being very generous because I value seeing other people light up with delight when I solve something that to me is SUCH a simple problem... you have no lunch? Here take my sandwich or 20 dollars and buy one, you have no shirt? Come to my truck I have one there, your shoe has a hole in it? I have a pair of gym sneakers in my locker you can use until you get your own... to me the material is close to worthless, its just stuff... I know people put a lot of stake in stuff and in a way thats very sad because I never did and I value people more than things... but I try not to judge, because I have always had an undeniable ability to get by when times were tough whereas some people just cannot, I like to fill in where I can to help because it makes me worry less. I worry about people incessantly... my family, my friends, a woman crying into her hands on a park bench. I instantly become curious and if I see a problem I can solve, I do my best to solve it. I guess it helps that other peoples feelings lodge in me like bullets, if I see someone crying my body reacts with its own tears and sadness and I feel the need to solve it.
 
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because if i love someone unconditionally they will love others a little more than before. i see that small increase of love towards others as continuing on forever.
 
ugh, i wish i didn't care so much.

if i keep flooding the world with my love, maybe, like it'll be better and stuff...

and wat Billy and Kmal said.
 
Maybe we need hope.
 
Odyne said:
Really? What's so great about caring for others without expecting much in return? I read a lot of your posts, blogs and threads, and have been for almost 3 years now. I still can't wrap my head around why you care so much.

I read about how many of you suffer, and how many of you love and never feel loved in return, yet you still want those (who are possibly taking advantage of you) to live a happy life, even if it's at your expense.

I can't understand it, because I know you are not super heroes. You are not strong, you are not perfect, you are not angels or god-sent creatures for the goodness of humanity. You are a weak fragile human being, and I know that if that extreme perspective continues you will be bringing upon yourselves your own demise.


So, why? Why put yourself through that? It's almost insane.


You are denying your own well being and giving it up to someone else who may not even appreciate it. I would understand if it was a mutual thing, and that the ones you care about, care right back. But it's the "give to all" mentality that I can't seem to comprehend, the self-sacrifice.

Honestly, sometimes I think it's foolish and delusional, because most of you don't seem like you can handle it; it's bringing you down, and it brings you nothing but bitterness and resentment (and sometimes you feel guilty about feeling bitter..), or depression and dejection so (again) why?
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It does make us suffer, but even though i will not change my ways because thats how i am and how i feel. The only thing is just to learn who to trust and even with these i really know its impossible to ever feel cared for in return but thats the way things work for me. But you are right actually, this way of thinking and feeling its of course a negative thing for us, its just a flaw we were born with maybe?
 
I'm not sure about the rest of my fellows, but I know that the world can be dark and just plain nasty sometimes but I like to believe that there is a little bit of good in almost everyone. You just have to dig and find it.

I used not not be able to handle it, but I'm able to handle myself better now than I used to be. I let people talk and I will almost always listen, trying to give the best advice I can. If it doesn't work then that wasn't the right advice to give and I can live with that. It still does tear me up inside when I realize I can't help certain people, but I learn to let it go.

We just want people to be happy thats all, it's in our nature and in the end if we know that we have made one person happy, we are content.
 
I think most INFJs have not learned to say "no." Instead they avoid people, hoping someone won't ask ... just so they don't have to say "no." It's taken me a long time to learn to say no and to put a stop to anyone who crosses my boundaries. INFJs are not very good about advocating for themselves, and because of this people learn to ask them as there will not be a refusal. It is definitely a learned behavior, and still it makes me uncomfortable to say "no" (at least until you piss me off, then you get the INFJ doorslam.) When people realize that you WILL say "no", they won't be inclined to take advantage of you.

Do I want to help others? ABSOLUTELY! I always do and it makes me feel great. I don't need anything in return (not even acknowledgment) when I know my intentions are good and actions going to a greater good.
 
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Why would I desire to give less than my all? I have to do what I think is right, regardless of what I get in return. It is in the giving, not the reward. I must fulfill my purpose.
 
Odyne said:
Sometimes, it seems to me like altruistic people want to transcend their own human nature.
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That about sums it up.

Also... it IS insane. I feel insane.
 
It is just a part of who I am...it's like believing in Santa Claus as a child even when all your friends tell you that he doesn't exist...you still want to believe in your heart because holding onto the "magic" of it makes the world a little bit better of a place.
And yes, I do keep getting hurt over and over by relationships...but I refuse to believe that there isn't that "one" out there for me....it does exist and no one could convince me otherwise...
I believe that there are extraordinary things in this life, this universe...after this life....I do believe that love can conquer all things...and if that makes me crazy or neurotic, or unrealistic then so be it....if it causes me a certain amount of pain...then I will deal with the pain....even if it destroys me in the end....because I would rather be dead than accept that something as beautiful and perfect as real love cannot win the day in the end.
 
Also, we don't feel that we are supposed to care more about ourselves. We don't see grey areas, and selfishness is the root of all evil. It's the thing we strive most not to be, for better or worse.
 
Odyne said:
Honestly, sometimes I think it's foolish and delusional, because most of you don't seem like you can handle it; it's bringing you down, and it brings you nothing but bitterness and resentment (and sometimes you feel guilty about feeling bitter..), or depression and dejection so (again) why?
Click to expand...

I do it, because it feel right... I want to show others that humans can be more than what nature has dictated. It's flawed/illogical to think this way - I'm well aware of that, but (to me) it serves a greater purpose.
 
How do you define altruism? Altruism to me is an act of unselfishness to benefit the life of others.

I don't believe that what I'm doing is altruism. Why? Because it is an act of selfishness when I help others. I do it to feel good about myself. That's what I get in return. I don't think it's possible to ever perform a conscious act that isn't selfish in some way.

I help others because I want to feel that I'm making a difference in the world. If I show them the good in me in a world that seems uncaring and evil, I feel like I can influence them to show their goodness to others. I feel like it is a chain reaction, however minuscule it may be. Slowly, the gradual buildup of the love we shower them with will allow them to do the same for others. That sounds immensely cheesy but that's what I believe.

I don't think we're the same level of weakness as everyone else. I'm pretty sure that most INFJ's have had a wider variety of emotional experiences than any other types, which is why we possess a greater ability to show empathy than any other type. This wider variety of experiences teaches us what to expect and makes us emotionally stronger than others.
 
Thank you so much for this thread! Now I know that I'm not the only one!

And yes! Scarecrow, love conquers all things. It has to-- the alternative is too gruesome to contemplate.

Let me tell you about a horrible INFJ moment that happened to me recently. I am an organist at a church. I recently had to play for the funeral of a woman who had committed suicide. Near me--about six feet away, I would guess-- a man was seated who was wailing and weeping with complete abandon during most of the service. I don't know who he was or what his relationship to the suicide victim was, but he was obviously deeply affected by the loss of this woman. I was absolutely paralyzed by the horror of having to contemplate this man's grief while trying to focus on what I was doing and what I was supposed to be playing. I wanted to leave the organ and run to this suffering man and wrap my arms around him and beg him to be comforted. I was only able to remain on the organ bench by locking my eyes onto the music notes and imagining that I was tied by ropes to the organ bench and could not get off it. Needless to say , it was a nightmare. But it was a good reminder of what being an INFJ is all about!

Thanks to all of you for your posts.
 
As I've developed I've learned to become less altruistic and more selfish, but other types would more quickly call this self-preservation. But also, where my altruism might have been a simple function of empathy in the past (heart-strings that are easily tugged), my understanding of it now is that I am an agent that is able to effect outcomes of any situation, and this agent will take on whatever form it needs to to achieve the desired outcome, whether or not it stands to benefit from the result of this outcome. The definition of altruism is to do something for the greater good and not for one's own benefit - if you see yourself simply as an agent of change (and downplay/eliminate your sense of "self") then everything you do can be interpreted as altruistic.
 
Why? I think it's a natural part of us. It's not something we turn on or off, it just is. It's sort of like being a mother, or father, and people are your children. You want to protect them and tell them it's okay. You want to tell them life will get better and it can, and you want to offer a bit of hope. But to be fair, I don't feel like this every day; if I did, I'd be worn out with everyone. But I know who I need to go to and I go to that person just when I'm needed, and in that moment of time, there is no one else but that person and myself.

If I saw a child crying in a park and s/he appeared alone, I'd think nothing else of coming alongside him or her, and asking what they needed. If I see someone who truly appears empty and down, I'll be there for them. But there's a certain point *when* I help, too. It's like, if you see someone drowning you have to wait until they stop kicking and fighting you before you can help them, and you have to time that moment just right. I do think, though, that there is a difference between altruism and martyrdom and you have to know the difference. Some INFJs do fall into martyrdom, but I see this more often with ISFJs perhaps. I'd say that INFJs give people many chances and will help someone who honestly seems to want his or her help - which on the outside could appear to be defending someone unsavory. But if the INFJ gets taken advantage of too many times, then they will know enough to break off the relationship and break away from something that isn't healthy. We just have to get to that point, is all, and some of us have longer ropes than others.
 
I think any mbti type can act in an altruistic way, perhaps the infj type is more noted for that because the "f" function makes us more aware of others distress. The saddest thing is realising how much better a world we'd all live in if there was less greed and more empathy. I don't think many infj types would happily allow themselves to be exploited. If you've ever had a row with an infj you will probably realise when they get angry the "altruism" is over.

I've learned that sometimes the best way to really help someone is to step back and let them deal with their own issues. Otherwise you may deny them the chance to develop their own independence. By definition we're all selfish to some degree, but a little self restraint and altruism benefits everyone. I think that's a good part of the infj traits.
 
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