WikiLeaks

Lucifer said:
Why would that be a problem? Prominent new organizations handle sensitive information all the, time should they be shut down?
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They're regulated, this organization isn't. Think of it this way, who's to say they aren't releasing valuable information to third parties instead of making it public. Just because they say they aren't? that wouldn't fly for any government.
 
Barnabas said:
They're regulated, this organization isn't. Think of it this way, who's to say they aren't releasing valuable information to third parties instead of making it public. Just because they say they aren't? that wouldn't fly for any government.
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Who says they actually did that? Anybody?
 
Lucifer said:
Who says they actually did that? Anybody?
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We don't know what they do with the information they get other then what they release to the public.
 
Barnabas said:
We don't know what they do with the information they get other then what they release to the public.
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Exactly you don't really have any evidence that Wikileaks is releasing these things to third parties so why do you think they do.
 
They state sensitive information is destroyed. For the record that's better info about their means of handling than our own government.
 
Kavalan said:
They state sensitive information is destroyed. For the record that's better info about their means of handling than our own government.
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can they prove that they destroy it, couldn't some one working for or with them make a personal copy before the info is destroyed.
 
Lucifer said:
Why would that be a problem? Prominent new organizations handle sensitive information all the time, should they be shut down?
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Yeah, the whole ire here is that our government was caught doing somehting they shouldn't be doing; and misusing classification to hide their misdeeds.
 
muir said:
I take it to mean that the british and US governments are waging cyber war on wikileaks
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Quite so; only helps to solidify my impressions of the whole mess vis a vis corruption of our governments.
 
Melito said:
The harm does not come form leaking them, it comes form the content that should not have been done in the first place.
Governments (I'm doing an exaggerated generalization here), hide things mostly because it does not go by what the people wants or it goes against ethical principals.
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That's one look at it, another could simply be: It's harmful to the general populace to know. The general populace tends to be, in ANY given country, decently dumb. When humans get together in mass quantities, the intelligence and reasoning skills begin to drop (I've noticed this occasionally even in some Academia settings). So perhaps the government has a plan they (in a perfect world) know 100% that it WILL work, there is no way it could not work. Then, the people get hold of it, and freak out (maybe-- and of course this is not only an extreme situation, but also a bizarre one) because the plan involves eating an 8 year old on TV. The populace thinks "omg this is awful!" not knowing its fake, they riot, and the whole thing goes to pot.



Of course, that would most likely never happen, and I assume Wikileaks would never leak something so serious. But I think people need to realize you don't need to *know* everything, you don't need to know all the inner workings, and for someone like me, who does want to know everything, even I have to accept I don't HAVE to know anything.


But apparently Wikileaks isn't even US operated (according to a different forum) so I guess we couldn't shut it down if we wanted to.


But still... :m150:
 
Urtehnoes said:
When humans get together in mass quantities, the intelligence and reasoning skills begin to drop (I've noticed this occasionally even in some Academia settings).
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It does seem that way, doesn't it. I wonder why... peer pressure? or perhaps that whole 'safety in numbers' thing allows people to let down their guard and relax intellectually (as opposed to being lonely and paranoid at the other extreme.)
 
I think it's when people get scared of what others will think of them. When done privately, no one can know, thus the intelligence can flourish. But with others...
 
A telling bit of information:

Wikileaks announces war-policy related documents to be released. Our governments comment and complain and attempt to protect their butts.

Wikileaks announces telling leaks regarding corporate/banking practices that they claim will 'lead to serious reform' and now wikileaks is weathering the largest DDoS assault they've ever encountered. (and surviving it quite well, thankfully.)

Doesn't do anything to dissuade me from my notions about the true source of corruption in the world today.
 
One thing that I have learned in the past is that arguing with Americans about how shitty their country has been is usually a bad idea.

I am all for wikileaks. I feel that the people have a right to know who and what they're supporting, what they're paying for and what kind of people are leading them. The actions of the government reflect on the people as a whole. I feel that current military positions and information probably should be kept top secret to avoid being obliterated by the "enemy" but other than that, if people want to know what's going on then they should have that information available to them.

There are some people out there who want to know every last detail. They pounce on this information as soon as it is released and they take the time to really investigate what is going on in their country and their world. I do think that people should be informing themselves.

I understand that there are also those who would rather remain blissfully ignorant. Sometimes knowing the truth and really seeing what's going on can be very depressing for some (myself included, actually). Some people just want to wake up, go about their day and go to bed and not take the problems of the nation on their shoulders and who's to blame them? Sometimes it is easier to just not know and let other people deal with it.

Personally I am one of those people who likes to know everything. I want the truth. I crave it. I want to know what's going on where and I want to know why. I want to know the motivations behind the governments actions, I want to know what the end goal is and I want to know whether or not the means are justifiable or if there is another way they can be achieved. I want to know about the group of 300, I want to know about the Bilderberg group. I want to know about the financial elites who control everything. I want to know if someone is influencing the government and if there is more that's going on than meets the eye. Likewise, I want to know if governments are pushing their weight around where they don't belong instead of taking care of their own people at home.

That's just me.

Fortunately Canada seems to do not much of anything at all lol. As a whole I don't worry too much about all of this. But learning about the US from an outsider perspective is pretty interesting stuff nonetheless.
 
sandra_b said:
One thing that I have learned in the past is that arguing with Americans about how shitty their country has been is usually a bad idea.
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I think there is actually a large group of us that don't buy into the bullshit american exceptionalism stuff and would probably agree with you on how shitty the american government has been in the past.

sandra_b said:
Fortunately Canada seems to do not much of anything at all lol...
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Canada seems to mind its own business which I think is a superior quality that america and many other countries lack.

Wikileaks is great, more examples that the emperor really isn't wearing any clothes. All the authoritarian types butthurt over it makes me happy. It blows my mind that people will still buy into the notion that we need to trust our governments because they are generally benevolent agencies that only want the best for us. Perhaps there are governments out there that are generally benign but I think in most cases they only serve their own interests and as such need to be watched like a hawk.
 
I like how people who support Wikileaks trust an Australian egomaniac under investigation for rape more than their own government. You guys do know that "The West Wing" is just a TV show, right? Not real life...?

Twenty bucks says nobody here know anyone who's worked in the American intelligence community. Newsflash: it's not all Jason Bourne, James Bond, secret government corruption, and misappropriation of funds. In fact, almost none of that goes on. Let's think about this for a second.

First, the employees. What does it take to get into the intel community?

-An impressive academic record
-A rigorous, extremely thorough background check that WILL reveal any embarrassing personal information you have
-Not being able to talk with anyone about your work, possibly having to lie to spouse/friends/relatives about what you do
-If you're overseas, you pretty much sacrifice having a family
-And best of all... the pay is shit compared to what these people could make in the private sector. Seriously.

Everyone likes to wear yellow ribbons and scream "SUPPORT THE TROOPS!!1!" but I think I've met more people who have been to Iraq/Afghanistan for the money or some other selfish reason than go into the intel services. The guys and gals I know who do classified work for the US do it because they love America, not because they want power (you don't really get to know anything outside what you're doing) or because they want money (see above).

If anyone's to blame for our mistakes in intel, it's Congress. My friends and relatives who've done this sort of work say it's horribly frustrating when briefing Congress on an issue, only to be asked ridiculously basic questions, to realize they don't know what you're talking about, and then get your funding cut because they need to put more in a shitty local pork-barrel project so they can get re-elected.

And that's all I have to say about that.
 
I've read a fair bit about the activities of secret service and I think a lot of James Bond type stuff does go on. The James Bond books were written by Ian Fleming who was himself in the secret service.

During the second world war Fleming once suggested to the UK government that they try and fool the germans by using the Enochian text as a code. The Enochian text was gained by the English Elizabethan magician John Dee who worked with a medium. They claim they were given this new alphabet by scrying with a crystal ball. James Bonds secret codename is 007, which Fleming got from John Dee as that was originally Dee's codename in Queen Elizabeth's secret service.

As it turns out they didn't use that method however they did work with British magician Aleister Crowley. The reason for this was the Nazis obvious fascination with the occult. For example their flag, the swastika is an occult symbol. Many high ranking Nazis were members of the occult order the 'Thule Society'.

Nazi official Rudolph Hess flew to Britain and spoke to Crowley. He also spoke to the Duke of Hamilton, a prominant Freemason. The aim was to broker a deal with Britain and end the war. Instead the British locked Hess up and he was held in prison right upto his death in 1987....they obviously thought he was a very dangerous man.

In the UK we see strange activity relating to the secret services all the time. There was a Bulgarian diplomat who was assassinated by a ricin capsule which had been concealed in the spike of an umbrella! A famous wartime diver called 'buster crab' dissapeared whilst examining the bottom of a Russian warship when it was harboured in British water. Recently we have seen Russian defector Litvinenko assassinated with radioactive polonium 210. Whistle blower David Kelly pitched up dead near his family home in what was made to look like a suicide but medical experts have claimed was a murder. 'Gods banker' was found hanging under a bridge in London (as portrayed in the godfather 3 film). Recently an operative on secondment to government listening station GCHQ was found dead in a bag in his bath; also around the same time another GCHQ employee was found dead in a canal having supposedly drowned trying to rescue his dog. The MI6 building in London was struck by a rocket in 2000.

.....i mean you can't make this shit up

Even in the states the CIA have been upto all sorts of things; they came up with hundreds of plots to kill castro including exploding cigars! They have been involved in training muslim extremists and running drugs over the US border! The US have been found to have been infecting people in Guatamala with syphilis in experiments in the 1950's....it just goes on and on the deeper you dig the more remarkable it all becomes!

The stuff that goes on behind the scenes is incredible!!
 
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For those interested in smearing wikileaks via Julian Assange via rape charges.

http://unfrozencaveman.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/the-wikileaks-guy/

So basically "rape" = not wearing a condom.

http://gawker.com/5619931/meet-wikileaks-founders-alleged-sex-victim

"The Swedish business news site Newzglobe today identified Ardin and quoted a Brotherhood official saying she was on sick leave from the organization. Ardin's name has also been tossed around in the Swedish blogosphere with increasing hostility: one writer wondered if the "radical feminist" was "the world's most hated woman right now." The backlash against the former university research assistant is fueled not only by the police backing down from the charges against Assange but also by a seven step guide Ardin published in January to "legal revenge" that involves, in one example, sabotaging a victim's sexual relationships."
 
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