Would you vote to control your boss' wages?

[SpecialEdition]

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you about who knows the most about the NWO or who has known for the longest i couldn't give a shit

But i am saying that there is a move on by a network to take power and wealth from the people and that it is already affecting us all and that it is going to affect us all more

If you are siding with them thats fine but don't try and tell me that they're doing it out of kindess or for our best interests and that i don't really understand...i understand EXACTLY whats going on

This isn't about the NWO. It's about how international trade works. You brought up the Trans-Pacific. I talked specifically about international trade and logistics. You got into NWO garbage. I am explaining to you why Automation is not going to happen for a very long time, why this agreement (if it goes through) is not going to happen for a while and any implications it may have will not be felt for a while. I am explaining what it looks like from inside a major global company. I am explaining what it looks like to import and export. If you want to talk globalization, this is where it starts and this is my expertise.

What you fail to explain in all of your posts is what people are supposed to DO. If they're awake, so what? THEN what? You don't ever offer any solution. You quote a bunch of people about what could potentially happen in the future, or what is supposedly happening behind the scenes but I see zero solutions. Stop buying at walmart? Stop working at companies that are part of this whole mess? Stop paying for oil and gas and by extension stop buying anything that relies on it, too? Vote when the votes don't matter? This is what I don't get.

I am not siding with anyone and I never said anything about anyone doing anything out of kindness for anyone. Being kind and having personal feelings and thinking about people is not what business is about. Business is about numbers.

It gets boring reading massive walls of text about NWO stuff. No one is going to absorb that if they're not interested and no one is going to give a shit if they're not provided with an alternative.

I can't even conceive of how you think the world should operate because you never state that. This is my problem with your posts, even if I understand the content and the context and what you are getting at.

 

[muir]

This isn't about the NWO. It's about how international trade works. You brought up the Trans-Pacific. I talked specifically about international trade and logistics. You got into NWO garbage. I am explaining to you why Automation is not going to happen for a very long time,

Automation is already happening

One common place its seen is in self service check outs at supermarkets

why this agreement (if it goes through) is not going to happen for a while and any implications it may have will not be felt for a while.

Trade agreements are being rolled out in tranches

We have already seen various tranches rolled out eg NAFTA so the process is already underway

I am explaining what it looks like from inside a major global company. I am explaining what it looks like to import and export. If you want to talk globalization, this is where it starts and this is my expertise.

What you fail to explain in all of your posts is what people are supposed to DO. If they're awake, so what? THEN what? You don't ever offer any solution.

I have created an entire thread dedicated to solutions: http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27053

if you listen to the most recent post there is prof david Graeber discussing how the system is hitting a brick wall and he discusses various options for example debt cancellation and more coooperative ventures

You quote a bunch of people about what could potentially happen in the future, or what is supposedly happening behind the scenes but I see zero solutions. Stop buying at walmart?

ideally yes, boycotts are part if voting with the feet

The problem is that the corrupt government runs its various food stamp schemes through corporations like walmart instead of for example ethical organic growers

Stop working at companies that are part of this whole mess?

Definately

I think my view on it can be summed up in two phrases:

''be the change you want to see in the world'' - ghandi
&
''vote with your feet''- anon

Stop paying for oil and gas and by extension stop buying anything that relies on it, too?

You could use greener alternatives eg LPG gas (i did this until my tank broke, but i'd up for doing it again)

Vote when the votes don't matter? This is what I don't get.

Definately don't vote for the two main parties no

if you want to protest the electoral system then give power to people who will shake it up like the pirate party

Personally i vote for the SNP which are currently working to make my country independent; if i wasn't voting for them i would vote for the pirate party

I am not siding with anyone and I never said anything about anyone doing anything out of kindness for anyone. Being kind and having personal feelings and thinking about people is not what business is about. Business is about numbers.

WRONG

Everything we do is about people

It gets boring reading massive walls of text about NWO stuff. No one is going to absorb that if they're not interested and no one is going to give a shit if they're not provided with an alternative.

have a look at the alternatives thread: http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27053

As a business insider you could even add some perspectives of areas you think that could be altered to make a difference or reveal weakspots in the beasts armour

I can't even conceive of how you think the world should operate because you never state that. This is my problem with your posts, even if I understand the content and the context and what you are getting at.

I have actually gone into great length here in the past about how i think the world should operate

But basically i see an epic struggle of global proportions being waged not only in our outer world but also inside each and every one of us between two approaches of centralisation v's decentralisation

The forces of centralisation want to take all the power and wealth for themselves and enslave the populace and the forces of decentralisation want to empower everyone to have a say and have a stake in the process

So one idea Graeber mentioned was instead of having a welfare system where chosen people receive welfare there could be a sum paid to EVERYONE every year; they could then do what they want on top of that

Debt is the main thing burdening people and making life little more than a prison for many so that's one of the prime things that needs to be tackled (see 'strike the debt' group in the solutions thread above)

 

[SpecialEdition]

Automation is already happening

One common place its seen is in self service check outs at supermarkets



Trade agreements are being rolled out in tranches

We have already seen various tranches rolled out eg NAFTA so the process is already underway



I have created an entire thread dedicated to solutions: http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27053

if you listen to the most recent post there is prof david Graeber discussing how the system is hitting a brick wall and he discusses various options for example debt cancellation and more coooperative ventures



ideally yes, boycotts are part if voting with the feet

The problem is that the corrupt government runs its various food stamp schemes through corporations like walmart instead of for example ethical organic growers



Definately

I think my view on it can be summed up in two phrases:

''be the change you want to see in the world'' - ghandi
&
''vote with your feet''- anon



You could use greener alternatives eg LPG gas (i did this until my tank broke, but i'd up for doing it again)



Definately don't vote for the two main parties no

if you want to protest the electoral system then give power to people who will shake it up like the pirate party

Personally i vote for the SNP which are currently working to make my country independent; if i wasn't voting for them i would vote for the pirate party



WRONG

Everything we do is about people




have a look at the alternatives thread: http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27053

As a business insider you could even add some perspectives of areas you think that could be altered to make a difference or reveal weakspots in the beasts armour




I have actually gone into great length here in the past about how i think the world should operate

But basically i see an epic struggle of global proportions being waged not only in our outer world but also inside each and every one of us between two approaches of centralisation v's decentralisation

The forces of centralisation want to take all the power and wealth for themselves and enslave the populace and the forces of decentralisation want to empower everyone to have a say and have a stake in the process

So one idea Graeber mentioned was instead of having a welfare system where chosen people receive welfare there could be a sum paid to EVERYONE every year; they could then do what they want on top of that

Debt is the main thing burdening people and making life little more than a prison for many so that's one of the prime things that needs to be tackled (see 'strike the debt' group in the solutions thread above)

I will read your thread.

Are your solutions practical, and are they something that a very large portion of people will abide by? Are your solutions something that could be applied to 7 billion people? This is what I am trying to get at.

As for the debt, that's people's own fault. I just can't sympathize with it. I had double the debt of my yearly salary and that was MY fault so I fixed it. That's what other people need to do too.

 

[muir]

I will read your thread.

Are your solutions practical,

They are from a variety of sources many of which are very hard headed people so YES many of them are practical and many of them are about decentralising systems down to people and away from corproations and governments

You might like some but not others but there's certainly lots in there to think about

and are they something that a very large portion of people will abide by?

Potentially...this is all an awareness issue

But put it this way...before 2008 no one gave a damn about economics but after that people began to look for answers

Nowadays we are seeing a massive growth in activist groups and in imaginative solutions so things are changing...perhaps not as quickly as we would like but it's happening

The powers that be however are making their last ditched attempt to cling to supreme power

Are your solutions something that could be applied to 7 billion people? This is what I am trying to get at.

Many of them yes

As for the debt, that's people's own fault. I just can't sympathize with it. I had double the debt of my yearly salary and that was MY fault so I fixed it. That's what other people need to do too.

I'm also debt free but have been in debt

But i think regarding fault i think its not as simple as saying its the consumers fault; as graeber discusses the entire system is dependent on debt

Money is created through loans....so money creation creates debt

The bankers sold this system to the government on the promise that it would positiviely transform our society for everyone but it hasn't...they lied, they broke their promise so in return why should the people honour their promise to repay debt?

 

[Skarekrow]

[video=vimeo;19635232]http://vimeo.com/19635232[/video]

Here’s what went wrong.

 

[sprinkles]

I kind of skipped the whole second page because I just wanted to post.

[MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION] what do you think about tying wages in a company together at fixed percentages? i.e. top boss manager's salary cannot exceed X% of the median of all other income in the company, or the lowest income, or something like that.

that way you're encouraging the well-being of everyone in the company instead of just pulling down the one at the top and assuming that it will magically make things better for everyone else.

I'm not certain how you'd implement something like that on a governmental level, I can only really rationalize it at a local level with collective bargaining between unions and companies.

That works but it doesn't solve the problem I'm looking at.

The problem I'm looking at is not "How do we decrease the wage gap"

Rather the problem I'm looking at is "How do we get the most money out while causing the least damage"

 

[SealHammer]

That works but it doesn't solve the problem I'm looking at.

The problem I'm looking at is not "How do we decrease the wage gap"

Rather the problem I'm looking at is "How do we get the most money out while causing the least damage"

I assume when you say "get the money out" you mean moving it into different economic sectors and spreading it out, but wouldn't paying the workers more do that pretty well on its own?

 

[sprinkles]

I assume when you say "get the money out" you mean moving it into different economic sectors and spreading it out, but wouldn't paying the workers more do that pretty well on its own?

It would, but it isn't as reliable.

The rich - especially the extremely rich that use offshore accounts and such - are the most likely to STAY rich so therefore they are stable. If we depend on the middle class to mobilize the economy then we're more prone to instability because they're usually the first to be hit by inflation for example.

 

[Skarekrow]

This pretty much sums it up best.

As does this...

This is why their wages should be controlled…because, they are stealing it from everyone else to line their own pockets…they now have no incentive to invest in the economy and infrastructure, their capital gains continue to make them millionaires and billionaires.

There is absolutely no reason why they would want to invest in the working class when the internal structure is set up so they always win at the expense of everyone else.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/15/us-income-inequality-state-revenue_n_5823290.html
They have stopped paying their share, placing the burden squarely on those who can no longer afford it in the working class.
No society has ever endured this amount of inequality…the closest has been pre-revolutionary France…that didn’t turn out so well for certain people.