This is not a blog, but it's here because what I want to discuss is personal: you and God. I'm here to probe (once again) about your personal relationship with God. I believe profound discussions are beneficial for the soul and I have not seen this place to be lacking of such, but I have not seen a thread (yet) where a profound relationship with God is tackled (I could be wrong).
It's important to note that this is a non-denominational probe. It may not even have to be categorically monotheistic, but rather than to argue about the existence of God, I want instead to place the probe among people who are working on a relationship with God.
The seeding questions are:
What is your relationship with God like?
How are you nurturing it?
Why must you live with God in your life (or not for the atheist)?
I understand that these are very personal questions hence my decision to place it within blogs. I would like to have the option of deleting it should people find uncomfortable experiences down the line.
I ask for peace, here. Most specifically, I ask for respectful tones. This is not a place for direct preaching to convert, nor a place to insist on the value of religion or its bane throughout the formation of our societies. None of that.
It's about you and God and how you live with God in your mind and life.
Thank you, but I was trying to share thoughts with you. I did not know you had shed your skin in the past. I certainly NEVER looked at what I feel as an approach. It is well with my soul. I simply cannot find anything greater than God. You found a dead end. I found a live one. The brain has an immense set of "steering wheels". However, in a healthy brain, we steer it or we allow God to steer.
As far as people-to-people interconnectivity is concerned, I think belief systems are a convenient commonality but hardly a barrier if most people respect the core importance of simply being different. There is beauty to different paths. We're all made differently after all. I am of the belief that even non-belief is a pathway to God if God is to be equated with goodness. That said, when a person aspires to live with a definition of growth that is aligned with goodness/being loving throughout all its facets, a person is in effect aspiring for godliness. By good, I do not mean absolute sainthood but simply of individuals who seek to live life respectfully as they are. Many subscribers to theism would argue against this but I simply cannot see an appropriately all-loving God to be so condemning of anything non-believing. Thus there must be a hierarchy to values enacted throughout life that are aligned with godliness that need not be particular to any religious or similar code.
I just realized my post said that I try to dictate but it should have said try NOT to dictate lol.
At the end of the day I think most people are doing their best. Some people bring God into the equation and some people aren't. I don't think society could function if everyone was going off the rails, so part of me thinks that we're mostly biologically driven to do right by each other for the most part in a world that's been twisted into some last stage capitalist nightmare.
I do not have an opinion, therefore, about the existence or otherwise of 'God'; I simply acknowledge the mystery and allow it to have space in my consciousness. I may pray, and engage in dialogue with 'God', but this doesn't represent something like 'faith', for me; it's almost a 'superpositional faith' - my sense of belief is in multiple states simultaneously, and none, or rather, One, since the mystery is the thing; is the 'object' itself. I do not have any sense of opposition to atheists, and in fact think of them as 'my people', just as I think of the sincerely religious as 'my people', too, though I'd strain to stress that this is not 'agnosticism'. The spiritual seems to move through everyone equally, and one cannot fail to notice the awe with which certain committed atheists (such as Dawkins) apprehend themselves in nature.
There is something here that I resonate with but I am too tired to dig up what it is exactly or why. Just a sense of something I'll have to revisit later.
2. Reading the Scriptures and listening to a bunch of bright men and women wax philosophic - or theologic - on the YouTube. Incidentally, I recommend checking out "Closer to Truth" on YouTube. I guess it was a show that ran on PBS for years. It interviews everyone from A.C. Grayling to the former Bishop of Durham. Roger Penrose and David Chalmers were semi-regular contributors as well.
3. Because living for yourself is ordinary; living for something else is the new punk rock.
I find that I receive people's feelings about God better when they simply describe their own experience and how their relationship with God looks in their day to day life. If I sense that what they're telling me is with the intention to "help me" or that they're only conveying something because they think I need to be guided in a certain direction then I am decidedly less interested. I'd rather just read someone's honest experience and how God manifests for them in their own lives instead of feeling that I'm not so subtly being preached to or being made to feel that God could help me. In that way, we don't have to stand in the same position. To use your example about traveling, maybe it's not about getting to a specific destination at all. Maybe I just like to hear about what life is like for you over in Cheshire, and you might be interested to hear about how things are over in Canada, and there's value enough in that.
That's just how I see it from the outside anyway. I think at the end of the day I'd just rather see what's real for someone else and enjoy that for them, if that makes any sense.
Yeah. That’s understandable. It hurts more when you do it caring for someone. It leaves a pretty big gaping space when your faith in humanity and existence is destroyed in that way. I get feeling defensive about it. I don’t like talking about it for that very reason.
Yeah. That’s understandable. It hurts more when you do it caring for someone. It leaves a pretty big gaping space when your faith in humanity and existence is destroyed in that way. I get feeling defensive about it. I don’t like talking about it for that very reason.
so part of me thinks that we're mostly biologically driven to do right by each other for the most part in a world that's been twisted into some last stage capitalist nightmare
I sure hope so. I think this is applicable to a large degree, which makes the world hopeful.
Ah capitalism. It's really very intriguing. Part of me thinks that if the actual capital could be converted to a numerical sustainability rating, we could maximize its very framework. If we could redefine the profiteering mechanism possibly by changing our values, it could be something worth exploring. But ah. This is a subject matter for another thread.
I've really enjoyed this tread. Thanks Min for creating it
As much as I have been pretty open about my Love for God...i find it very difficult to really articulate. And it also makes me feel vulnerable. Which is ironic because that is the exact opposite of what my experience of God is- Being invulnerable, whole, complete, at One in Love.
What is your relationship with God like?
Connecting, Reconnecting. I feel I'm the prodigal son, in a state of eternal grace. But some days the pain of this world clouds my ability to hear and see God
How are you nurturing it?
Friendship with God. Prayer, meditation, appreciation and recognition. Self discipline and self awareness with my spiritual practice, time in the morning and evening, and small reminders through the day. Remaining humble and accepting my ignorance. Not taking myself or life seriously. Self care, self compassion and kindness. Spending time in nature, dancing, running, cooking, yoga, art, writing, cleaning, walking, eating, sleeping, dreaming, having a conversation....anything.
In prayer I can open my heart and mind to God....not to ask for anything or to petition, but simply as friendship and connection, a space for me to feel Loved, whole, home....to acknowledge and revere my Creator
Why must you live with God in your life (or not for the atheist)?
God is a necessity for me, underlying every aspect of my existence and experience and reality. Everything and everyone is my relationship with God, and Self.
I have not always believed in God. I grew up in a very religious environment and this brought much joy to my life as well as pain and destruction. I have actively 'hated' God at times in my life and not believed at other times. I have experienced God so God became undeniable to me after that experience. Yet after having a rock bottom experience that completely disintegrated my life at the start of last year, I felt completely cut off from God for some time and had to relearn my friendship. Over my time in life i've followed many paths and tried many things, sometimes to extremes. I have enjoyed some paths greatly but none were for me. I have been reckless and indulgent and at times completely self destructive. In some ways i truly love the earthly experience and have revelled in the experience of the senses and duality and individuation. I've had many existential crises and in some ways my entire life has been one. I both despise and love the human experience.
But the pain i went through last year broke me and eventually forced to face my shadows and hubris. It was a complete breakdown and standstill. I was forced to accept complete loss and it was only through God's grace and strength i was able to recover and see light again. God's Light is reflected all around me, in the faces of the people i see and in the love that i am freely given. I have learnt that the only thing to truly fear is myself. I'm the the only one standing in my way, and I'm the only one that can help me. God is my anchor in this, my salvation. In God i understand that the reason this world and body does not feel home to me, that the nature of this world tears my soul apart is because this is not my home. My true home is with God, in God. When i remember this everything is different. I feel free. Life takes on a new meaning, a new freshness and anticipation, and a different type of commitment to the way i live my life and love the life around me
I am honestly repulsed by the monotheistic god of Christianity, which is why I have turned away from the religion of my upbringing. There are reasons for this. This has not been easy to do as most of my family are Christians. I often feel very alone and isolated from them in this way.
I think Jesus offers some path to liberation, based on love, but because his teaching have become dogma, chained by religion I find it very limited. There really isn't much in the New Testament if you want to explore the depths of inner growth. That is really because that is not the point of Jesus' teaching: Salvation. For understanding and liberation from the self, I think there is more spiritual insight in eastern religions, who seem to understanding much more about existence and nature, and our place in it, than western ones. I believe they offer more to the spirit as they turn inward for understanding. From understanding the self, you are liberated. This is the opposite of Christianity, where belief, faith, and works are paths to salvation. I have rejected the belief that we humans are here in existence to be judged for all of eternity. This sickens me greatly. This has to do with my relationship with the Christian god. There is a grand, beautiful natural world, full of wonder and many other living beings with consciousnesses of their own. If there is a god, this god wouldn't prize humans above everything else, imo.
I was raised(somewhat) Catholic. I was taught prayers as a child. I used to pray every night for my loved ones. But over the years, no matter how much I prayed, bad things happened to me and to my loved ones, and to so many people all around me. No amount of praying changed any of that. If a god was unwilling to listen or to do anything at all, if god's will had a purpose beyond our understanding, why pray at all? All I felt was indifference, which is the opposite of love, from god. God did not care so much about the sexual abuse, the physical and emotional abuse all around me. God did not act when my grandfather died of lung cancer, my uncle of AIDS, when newborns suffer terribly before they die even after being alive for such a short time. Life is filled with so much pain and suffering. That is the reality. What has been hard for me, is that no other higher being cares for me personally, or anyone else anymore than anyone really. All I have felt is cold indifference. This has lead to a terrible loneliness, depression, existential crises, as I have had to make my own path to philosophies and beliefs that give me a sense of peace, along with my understanding of the universe. This hasn't been easy, and has been(and still is) one of the hardest things to do in this life.
The thing is, I may never attain that peace. I could die today, or tomorrow, or next week and never have that sense of peace. I am not entitled to such a sense of peace anyways. Countless human beings have all gone through the same thing, generation after generation, most have suffered terribly. So many die before being able to even begin to contemplate existence. Even other hominids, like neanderthal and erectus, have lived and died pondering the same things we are pondering today. Consider ourselves very lucky to be even being able to have conversations like these.
All I know is all we really have are each other. To be empathetic, compassionate, and understanding with each other is the best kind of salvation imho, in THIS LIFE. Anything beyond that is so far beyond my ability to know, and anyone else's for that matter. I do not criticize anyone else for their beliefs, so long as they don't try to convert me. My relationship with "god" is one filled with a mix of emotions that I have long grappled with. I still grapple with them, but I look at these as signs that I am growing and evolving as a human being.
I am sitting here painting and thinking so much about god. See, we are all connected, in ways we probably won't understand.
One thing I have come to believe is that consciousness creates. I have a tendency to believe that the universe is part of a higher consciousness, whether that is what most of us believe is god or something else inexplicable, idk.
Each of our consciousness has the opportunity to bring deeper aspects of consciousness into reality. Some bring dreams into the world, some of the most wonderful dreams as they change the world for the better. Others can bring nightmares into the world. Horrible nightmares. Both are different sides of the consciousness coin.
These are good points that you've raised @ThomasJ79. Many of us here have talked about having experienced a saving love at our lowest, some of us discussed God in the context of beauty, but no one so far has pointed to God in the thresholds of pain. I think it is critical to discuss God in such contexts.
In my case, I felt I was collected from my pain and I felt I was collected by a force that I can only know and call as God. I was consumed by despair and it was in that despair that I experienced (and continue to experience) God in my life. It's not that I disregard the suffering, on the contrary, I live in it too. However, I do not perceive the suffering as a deliberate act of injustice or punishment afflicted to me by God. This is where I take a bit of beef against Catholicism because it is difficult for me to accept that God punishes deliberately because I am hated for my actions. I think that pain and suffering are simply parts of the fabric of our being as consequences of this elaborate matrix that we're part of, which we call life. As such, God to me is omnipresent in that God is also there throughout this very life, including the pain. Thus, pain and suffering is not the absence of God but that it is God within me too; and because pain is a derivation of God to me, I can say that God is sitting by me too during these sufferings.
One of my favorite allegories is called Footprints in the sand, which I quote here:
Footprints in the sand
One night I dreamed a dream.
As I was walking along the beach with my Lord.
Across the dark sky flashed scenes from my life.
For each scene, I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand,
One belonging to me and one to my Lord.
After the last scene of my life flashed before me,
I looked back at the footprints in the sand.
I noticed that at many times along the path of my life,
especially at the very lowest and saddest times,
there was only one set of footprints.
This really troubled me, so I asked the Lord about it.
"Lord, you said once I decided to follow you,
You'd walk with me all the way.
But I noticed that during the saddest and most troublesome times of my life,
there was only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me."
He whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you
Never, ever, during your trials and testings.
When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that I carried you."
The allegory speaks of a God that carries the sufferer. I know that it's corny and that it could ring as something superficial as a belief, but I have come to perceive that it is not literally that God carries during the darkest times but that an omnipresent God would also have to persist even in such suffering. I think that the notion of God as only pure light and love runs the risk of limiting such omnipresence. Curiously, even pain and suffering itself, to me, are acts of love gone awry. In as much as my mother's cancer could not rob me of my love for my mother, then I came to realize that it must also be true for God. Pain is not entirely the absence of love nor the absence of God's love for me.
Why then should we have to suffer, if we must ask? Why must there be diseases and why must there be abuses? My response to that would be that it's because we are alive. In this lifetime, our being is bound to the limitations of life as we biologically understand it today. One may argue, well if God is Magneto levels awesome, why won't God correct the broken systems themselves? Why would God allow murderers to exist? I could only perceive that it's because these very existences are byproducts of systems that are bound to the realities of our biology, the rules of our cosmos on gravities and such, and perhaps even the very rules that govern the energies that traverse our psyche ----including all of our individual mental and emotional misgivings. As such, when a rapist rapes, to me that rapist is a byproduct of these entangled complexities that simply must be extant because we let it be so. This is also where free will becomes vital and this is where I sit with Catholicism in acknowledging it as God's best gift. We were created with a semblance of separation from God but also in the likeness of God. As a Catholic, I can sit well with this notion. To me the very pinnacle of that likeness is manifested via free will. It is because we can make choices that impact others around our circles to several penetrable degrees that we are exactly created in the likeness of God.
I think that it is precisely because God is an intelligent God that these systems came to be. And because God is an intelligent God, he devised us as the very drivers of the systems. My working theory is that our genes are the actual main drivers of our propensity to exist, but that whether or not it is our genes or our very humanity, it remains apparent to me that we are tools in a complex system that is by God. Following this, then effectively, the system itself is God and you and I are components of such godliness. Hence you and I are of God no matter where our free will takes us.
You mentioned eastern doctrine; I think this is where I could also appreciate these eastern structures of thought. This is why and how I tend to deviate from strict adherence to religion because it is apparent to me that the very rigidity of its constructs defy the flux of existence, and therefore also defies God as a truly encompassing concept. To me, religion is still effective for it simplifies certain pretexts. There's a boon to it. As much as laws provide a structure to our daily lives, religion has a similar function which to me makes it appreciable. Be that as it may, I think a God that is truly superior could never be contained in such constructs. At that, God then could never be just a God that punishes or controls from a throne with a mighty scepter. God is imperceptible and rightfully so for then if God could be completely understood, how then is that godly at all?
However I also think that parts of God can be known through bits and parcels of our existences as we experience it. This is why I would also say that God is indeed in the eyes of child a well as the warmth of a puppy. In the same vein, God is also in my suffering. God is with me in my pain for I can never be separate from God.
When I experienced the engulfing warmth of God, it became too difficult thereafter to acknolwedge the idea that there is no God. Because my experience is empirical to me, personally, I find it difficult to deny it thus my active conquest for finding explanations and interpretations of godliness amidst the mundanity of our existences. I must reason for my experience. But also, all of our experiences are unique so we can never really have any such right to "actively convert". We can only share our experiences but never impose.
I hope though that I was able to give you something to think about and that it was legible enough. Damn was it hard to write.
You have given me a lot to think about. At the heart, I don't think we are all that much different. We do use different concepts and language to try and express what seems to me to be the same underlying reality.
