Your body language shapes who you are

[LucyJr]

Let's say somebody gets chemicals/hormones into your system somehow without your knowledge. Are you telling us this won't have an effect because you aren't willing it, or reacting to it?

No, I wasn't saying that. I think chemicals and hormones can affect what is in their nature to affect, which is hormones and chemicals, nothing more.
But feeling confident and worthy...its not about chemicals, hormones or alcohol, its of a different nature. I would say of a higher nature, but most people today say just different.

 

[this is only temporary]

In my social psychology class we had to watch a video relating to body language and experiments that show the effect it has on your hormones. I found it very interesting, but even more interesting was the comments from the other students. So many of the comments were from people who stated they were introverts and that this was something that they needed to work on. I thought I would post the video here and see if you have any thoughts on this.

http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are.html

....watched the whole video and I thought it was absolutely fascinating. Having danced and practiced yoga for many years I can attest to the fact that your body does indeed shape your mind, quite powerfully, in fact. To me, dance is better than any drug. Also the part where she was talking about "I don't belong here" and faking it until you become it was so touching and something I can relate to very much. If you experience social anxiety this sort of thing might help you.

 

[sprinkles]

Haha, yes. Well I better rethink this now.
Yes, I think alcohol can affect the brain, but not the mind.

What is your definition of 'mind'?

How about:
a : the element or complex of elements in an individual that feels, perceives, thinks, wills, and especially reasons
b : the conscious mental events and capabilities in an organism
c : the organized conscious and unconscious adaptive mental activity of an organism

In order to say that alcohol effects the brain and not the mind, you must have a completely different definition of 'mind'. I'd like to know what it is to understand your reasoning.

 

[sprinkles]

No, I wasn't saying that. I think chemicals and hormones can affect what is in their nature to affect, which is hormones and chemicals, nothing more.
But feeling confident and worthy...its not about chemicals, hormones or alcohol, its of a different nature. I would say of a higher nature, but most people today say just different.

It is about chemicals because if we take yours away, you're not going to be feeling anything, let alone confidence.

Yes you can manage them internally by thinking, because by thinking you manage your chemicals in a feedback loop. It's another way to handle it but it's the same functions via different means.

 

[muir]

The real question isn't: ''how do i win at this game?''

The real question is: ''is this a game i want to play?''

The speaker reveals her complex (unresolved emotional issue) in her talk. She was driven to succeed within a certain game because she was told she couldn't do it because her IQ dropped due to her accident

Now she teaches business students how to posture more like a greyback gorilla; great more posturing morons in suits who elevate style over substance...just what the world needs!

I wonder how happy she is, beneath the posturing...it all seemed pretty raw for her

 

[this is only temporary]

The real question isn't: ''how do i win at this game?''

The real question is: ''is this a game i want to play?''

The speaker reveals her complex (unresolved emotional issue) in her talk. She was driven to succeed within a certain game because she was told she couldn't do it because her IQ dropped due to her accident

Now she teaches business students how to posture more like a greyback gorilla; great more posturing morons in suits who elevate style over substance...just what the world needs!

I wonder how happy she is, beneath the posturing...it all seemed pretty raw for her

I think the world needs more people who try to empower others actually, far more than it needs more internet street preachers and zealots. The woman in the video was clearly trying to help others, not spread fear and hate, such as what you are doing.

 

[LucyJr]

What is your definition of 'mind'?

How about:
a : the element or complex of elements in an individual that feels, perceives, thinks, wills, and especially reasons
b : the conscious mental events and capabilities in an organism
c : the organized conscious and unconscious adaptive mental activity of an organism

In order to say that alcohol effects the brain and not the mind, you must have a completely different definition of 'mind'. I'd like to know what it is to understand your reasoning.

Sure.

The mind is a independently existing substance, non-physical in nature and non-extendet, that can not be reduced to the brain nor caused by the brain, or explain in terms of physical properties.

As a identification, I think the mind can be identified with consciousness and self-awareness.
"I think, therefore I am" Rene Descartes

 

[LucyJr]

It is about chemicals because if we take yours away, you're not going to be feeling anything, let alone confidence.

Yes you can manage them internally by thinking, because by thinking you manage your chemicals in a feedback loop. It's another way to handle it but it's the same functions via different means.

I disagree and I don't want to explain why because then we'll probably debate this a lot and I don't have the willingness for that.
I don't have a computer, I type from my mobile and it can be pretty draining. Hope you understand

 

[muir]

I think the world needs more people who try to empower others actually, far more than it needs more internet street preachers and zealots. The woman in the video was clearly trying to help others, not spread fear and hate, such as what you are doing.

I do think that a certain amount of fear can come with seeing behind the surface veil...yes, but its a fear that can then be acknowledged, owned and managed

However i think there are two reasons why that process is still worth it

The first reason is because i think...and i'm going to go into this in more detail in another thread....that most anxiety is a product of the unconscious mind where the unconscious mind is trying to tell us something is wrong. Its my view however that our society is papering over the cracks of problems and ignoring the communication that is coming from the unconscious mind and that this is leading to a lot of unresolved anxiety in our society. This is easily verifiable just from looking into the widespread use of mood altering drugs used by society....so its not my subjective opinion that there is a lot of anxiety out there

Its my view that by closing the gap between how we feel in our hearts and what we are told by the people in power that we can lessen the cognitive dissonance

The other reason i think its worth people discussing these things is because we are on a certain trajectory as a society; basically things are going to get worse if we keep our current course....so its my view that people should be discussing these matters in the hope that society might change course

If you see a person playing on a railway track and you from where you are standing can see a train coming....you're going to shout up to that person ''watch out there is a train coming''. yes it will likely cause some anxiety in the person when they first hear this but it will enable them to take certain actions which will be beneficial to them in the long run

The speaker we are talking about has posted on the internet (over 9 million views!) so that would make her what you have just called an 'internet preacher'. The only differences between her and me is that she is a professor (within the system i am criticising) and reaches a larger audience. but we are still two people putting our views out on the internet

I think empowerment is about increasing conscious awareness not trying to find ways to push yourself deeper into a game that won't make you happy anyway...so i think we differ on our view of that

i don't think saying that body language makes a difference to how you or others feel is really news to be honest....its pretty obvious

 

[sprinkles]

Sure.

The mind is a independently existing substance, non-physical in nature and non-extendet, that can not be reduced to the brain nor caused by the brain, or explain in terms of physical properties.

As a identification, I think the mind can be identified with consciousness and self-awareness.
"I think, therefore I am" Rene Descartes

I can consider this true for sake of argument. However it doesn't change the idea that chemicals can effect the mind. We have all the evidence saying they do, and just about none saying they don't.

This is like saying a chainsaw can't cut down a tree, because trees aren't caused by chainsaws or reduced to chainsaws.

 

[LucyJr]

I can consider this true for sake of argument. However it doesn't change the idea that chemicals can effect the mind. We have all the evidence saying they do, and just about none saying they don't.

This is like saying a chainsaw can't cut down a tree, because trees aren't caused by chainsaws or reduced to chainsaws.

Yes, but chainsaws and trees are both physical in nature. While chemicals are physical in nature, mind is not, at least in the definition that I give it.
So, its like trying to cut with a chainsaw a "ghost tree" or a "spiritual tree". Or its like you would cut with the same chainsaw a concept or a idea, or mercy like a value. Those are abstract things, that can not be influenced by anything phyisical, not even the brain. There are grounded in a mind.

 

[La Sagna]

Do you mean they had to work on being more introverted, less introverted, or what?

I don't think it's about being more or less introverted, that you are or you're not, I think that it's more about techniques or tricks that can help introverts function better in an extroverted environment. The comments that I read were about either wanting to try this body positioning technique to help them in certain situations, or that their experience in having used similar techniques that helped them. It just struck me that most of the people who were commenting on this were stating that they were introverts so that really stood out to me.

 

[La Sagna]

No, I wasn't saying that. I think chemicals and hormones can affect what is in their nature to affect, which is hormones and chemicals, nothing more.
But feeling confident and worthy...its not about chemicals, hormones or alcohol, its of a different nature. I would say of a higher nature, but most people today say just different.

I don't see the presenter saying that the chemicals make you 'feel confidant and worthy'. I think that is just your interpretation of what they are saying. I don't think it is a conscious thing at all. You're not thinking 'I am now confidant and worthy because I stood with my arms in the air for two minutes' but you have more good hormones flowing through your body and more importantly less cortisol which would affect your mood. It has nothing to do with how you are thinking about it or responding to the position, it is all subconscious. Every psychological event is also a biological event, so you can think that your mind is controlling your body exclusively and not the other way around but science is proving this idea to be wrong.

 

[La Sagna]

I think the world needs more people who try to empower others actually, far more than it needs more internet street preachers and zealots. The woman in the video was clearly trying to help others, not spread fear and hate, such as what you are doing.

I agree, empowering somebody can lead to someone feeling confidant enough to stand up to big business and government to try to make a difference. Empowering a person that wants to change the world for better and help the underpriviliged can lead to positive change.

A lot of websites claim that Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King JR were INFJs. I believe that they are great examples of how the right person being empowered can change the world for the better. If they were really introverts they had to find something in themselves to build themselves as powerful speakers and game changers.

Here are a couple of images of both of them in 'powerful poses'.

 

[La Sagna]

Here is another example how the body can control the mind: I am hypoglycemic, which means that I create too much insulin so that if I eat simple carbs or sugars then my blood sugar will plummet. I can tell you that when my blood sugar is low I am not myself at all, I am grumpy, unfocused and unable to function normally. My personality is completly changed when my blood sugar is low. It's like the candy bar commercials that say 'you are not yourself when you are hungry' and the people turn into Betty White or Joe Pesci - I can completly relate to this, although a candy bar is not the answer.

 

[muir]

I agree, empowering somebody can lead to someone feeling confidant enough to stand up to big business and government to try to make a difference. Empowering a person that wants to change the world for better and help the underpriviliged can lead to positive change.

A lot of websites claim that Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King JR were INFJs. I believe that they are great examples of how the right person being empowered can change the world for the better. If they were really introverts they had to find something in themselves to build themselves as powerful speakers and game changers.

Here are a couple of images of both of them in 'powerful poses'.

View attachment 19354View attachment 19355

I don't believe that when an INFJ steps into a leading role that they calculatedly control their posture to project themself in order to be taken more seriously, I think they channel their conviction

“Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will.” Ghandi

An empowered person (an adept) has their vision....they KNOW what is right (they can see all the inner workings) and they are going to put that vision across

King knew...he knew the game...as did ghandi....they knew the price as well....king said 'he wouldn't live to see the promised land'...he knew they would take him out....but he did it anyway

 

[sprinkles]

Yes, but chainsaws and trees are both physical in nature. While chemicals are physical in nature, mind is not, at least in the definition that I give it.
So, its like trying to cut with a chainsaw a "ghost tree" or a "spiritual tree". Or its like you would cut with the same chainsaw a concept or a idea, or mercy like a value. Those are abstract things, that can not be influenced by anything phyisical, not even the brain. There are grounded in a mind.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't claim to know how it works.

If the mind is not physical but the body is physical there's still a link between physical and non-physical. That's assuming anything can be non-physical - I don't think it can, but this isn't an important detail to my point.

The point being that if non-physical can effect physical then there's no reason to propose that the opposite can't be true, especially without knowing how it works.

I can't tell you why chemicals would effect a non-physical mind, just the same as you can't tell me why it wouldn't. Evidence shows an effect though. I can't claim to know why it works, but as far as we know it does work.

 

[barbad0s]

Sure.

The mind is a independently existing substance, non-physical in nature and non-extendet, that can not be reduced to the brain nor caused by the brain, or explain in terms of physical properties.

As a identification, I think the mind can be identified with consciousness and self-awareness.
"I think, therefore I am" Rene Descartes

LucyJr, have you ever experienced anything like major depression or any other long term mood imbalance brought on by hormonal imbalance? I can assure you that it affects your very soul, and definitely encompasses what you are saying you consider the mind to be. Unless you are trying to say that your permanent spiritual "mind" is something that has nothing to do with the events or experiences in your life at all.

 

[La Sagna]

I don't believe that when an INFJ steps into a leading role that they calculatedly control their posture to project themself in order to be taken more seriously, I think they channel their conviction

“Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will.” Ghandi

An empowered person (an adept) has their vision....they KNOW what is right (they can see all the inner workings) and they are going to put that vision across

King knew...he knew the game...as did ghandi....they knew the price as well....king said 'he wouldn't live to see the promised land'...he knew they would take him out....but he did it anyway

I agree, but sometimes the shy little kid needs some tricks to get to the point that they can express themselves in an effective way. I'm not saying that someone who doesn't stand in a power pose before going to do a speach can't be powerful and effective, but if this little trick gives you a little extra boost why not use it? I don't see that there is any harm in it.

I know for myself, when I am speaking of a cause that is close to my heart I can be very convincing but 'faking it until I make it' has helped get into places that gives me a bigger platform to spread my ideas.

 

[LucyJr]

I don't see the presenter saying that the chemicals make you 'feel confidant and worthy'. I think that is just your interpretation of what they are saying. I don't think it is a conscious thing at all. You're not thinking 'I am now confidant and worthy because I stood with my arms in the air for two minutes' but you have more good hormones flowing through your body and more importantly less cortisol which would affect your mood. It has nothing to do with how you are thinking about it or responding to the position, it is all subconscious. Every psychological event is also a biological event, so you can think that your mind is controlling your body exclusively and not the other way around but science is proving this idea to be wrong.

I don't think science has proved that the body controls the mind, and that's because the mind is something that is out of the science area of expertise.

I think what you wanted to say is that science has proven that the body affects the brain, not the mind. But that is nothing new, because the brain is actually a part of the body.

As for the pshychological events, I don't think they can be reduced to biological events either. And I don't think science can be helpful here. Its out of its area again.

Science can do a few things in pshychology: to observe some surface "effects" and then deduce and draw some conclusions based on that. But that is only based on effects, not on the essence.

So I don't agree that science had proven anything in this area up to this time. Of course, science hopes that in the future can do that, but I seriously doubt it.