Youth Going Through Gender Transition Are More At Risk Of Psychiatric Issues

[Fruiteloop]

did I say you insulted someone ?

I am asking you how you correlated psychiatric illness with genetics and religion, and you respond with Adam's original sin.

Let me give you another example: it is like comparing the growth and nature of a plant to Adam’s original sin. You can clearly see that the comparison doesn't hold up.

Perhaps you are the one who entered this discussion with unclear intentions?

-Giammarco

Here is the argument:

1 God made Adam

2 Adam sinned

3 His genes changed so he could die and everything else

4 because most conditions are genetic this led to many abnormalities in people genes

5 I do not believe in original sin but I do believe gender in the psychological sense is genetic

6 so where from my perspective or this one dysphonia could have come from Adams choice or not

Religion I assume has something to do with this thread and why I lay'd it out as I did before and just now.

Please let me state I have nothing against anyone, its just arguments under what I see would be the link between religion and dysphoria.

 

[Fruiteloop]

You are conflating psychology and generally mental conceptions with scientific realities.

I agree that some people are more masculine or more feminine. This says absolutely nothing about the person's sex. If you want to say masculine and feminine have to do with gender, then fine. But I don't believe someone can be "trigendered" or whatever other madness people are coming up with.

No I do not believe in a tri gender.

Yes I do think some people are more masculine and some are more feminine but I see that as separate from sex and more to do with how they experience reality.

Because how can ones experience of being male or female be scientifically explained? I do not think it can.

Female type persons experience being female not scientifically but inside themselves, in the body heart and mind.

 

[QuickTwist]

No I do not believe in a tri gender.

Yes I do think some people are more masculine and some are more feminine but I see that as separate from sex and more to do with how they experience reality.

Because how can ones experience of being male or female be scientifically explained? I do not think it can.

Female type persons experience being female not scientifically but inside themselves, in the body heart and mind.

How?

Brain chemistry, hormones, even the way our bodies function. There are many ways people experience their sex scientifically.

 

[Fruiteloop]

How?

Brain chemistry, hormones, even the way our bodies function. There are many ways people experience their sex scientifically.

So science can explain consciousness?

My way of looking at it is that science cannot explain the experience of male and femaleness anymore than the experience of the color yellow can be explained.

Its a debate of what is science can and cannot do that has been happening a long time.

Strawberries taste like strawberries for example.

How would science explain it? I am not sure.

Love is unexplainable by science.

and so on

 

[QuickTwist]

So science can explain consciousness?

My way of looking at it is that science cannot explain the experience of male and femaleness anymore that the experience of the color yellow can be explained.

Its a debate of what is science can and cannot do that has been happening a long time.

Strawberries taste like strawberries for example.

How would science explain it? I am not sure.

Love is unexplainable by science.

and so on

Feelings, affections, emotions, and states of mind can be observed. It's a soft science, and our whole understanding of psychology is based on it.

 

[Fruiteloop]

Feelings, affections, emotions, and states of mind can be observed. It's a soft science, and our whole understanding of psychology is based on it.

Yes, so we'd expect there to be measurements of brain scans to see what psychology of males and females are.

Otherwise we'd have only impressions.

In the 1800's a game existed to tell if you talking to a male or female behind a curtain with notes.

And it was popular because men knew more science back then.

But today you have avatars and voice changers and people can act male or female and you'd never tell.

That said most people act the way they look. Some act different, like men or women but openly even looking how they are.

 

[QuickTwist]

Yes, so we'd expect there to be measurements of brain scans to see what psychology of males and females are.

Otherwise we'd have only impressions.

In the 1800's a game existed to tell if you talking to a male or female behind a curtain with notes.

And it was popular because men knew more science back then.

But today you have avatars and voice changers and people can act male or female and you'd never tell.

That said most people act the way they look. Some act different, like men or women but openly even looking how they are.

Whether you can find it in a brain scan is a different thing entirely. I can observe something without knowing the root cause behind it.

There was a video I was watching a few days ago about a guy who studies the history of the English language. He was a phonetician in language, so he knew the evolution of how words sound throughout time. But even though he can speak all these different phonetic sounds regarding the history of the English language, he always defaulted to, "My accent is like X." So, he knows what his "base" is and how he sounds when he is not speaking in a way that is not native to him. The same would be true for actors who have a "base" personality, even though they can play the part of a different personality. The same would be true given masculine and feminine representation.

 

[Fruiteloop]

Whether you can find it in a brain scan is a different thing entirely. I can observe something without knowing the root cause behind it.

There was a video I was watching a few days ago about a guy who studies the history of the English language. He was a phonetician in language, so he knew the evolution of how words sound throughout time. But even though he can speak all these different phonetic sounds regarding the history of the English language, he always defaulted to, "My accent is like X." So, he knows what his "base" is and how he sounds when he is not speaking in a way that is not native to him. The same would be true for actors who have a "base" personality, even though they can play the part of a different personality. The same would be true given masculine and feminine representation.

What if that base personality was rejected your whole life.

People ware masks called the persona

They hide themselves.

At least some do

I can accept that there is a physical component to the psychology of gender but when you want to know a person its better to understand how tehy naturally be which is a difficult thing to realize about another person, like reading minds.

What would happen inside the person is the question to be discovered.

What happens in males and females. Not just bodies but in the soul or whatever spiritual things we cannot describe with words.

 

[QuickTwist]

What if that base personality was rejected your whole life.

People ware masks called the persona

They hide themselves.

At least some do

I can accept that there is a physical component to the psychology of gender but when you want to know a person its better to understand how tehy naturally be which is a difficult thing to realize about another person, like reading minds.

What would happen inside the person is the question to be discovered.

What happens in males and females. Not just bodies but in the soul or whatever spiritual things we cannot describe with words.

I think it is tragic when people reject what people are authentically like, and it happens all the time. This is in some part what leads to a person identifying as "transgender" in the first place. Even in the Bible, it gives a clear indication that masculine and feminine are true realities, and some men are more feminine, and some women are more masculine. That does not undercut the idea that we can know something about the experience of another person by identifying the same thing in ourselves.

And as I said before on this forum, sometimes there are things a person can never understand about the opposite sex.

 

[Akar]

Here is the argument:

1 God made Adam

2 Adam sinned

3 His genes changed so he could die and everything else

4 because most conditions are genetic this led to many abnormalities in people genes

5 I do not believe in original sin but I do believe gender in the psychological sense is genetic

6 so where from my perspective or this one dysphonia could have come from Adams choice or not

Religion I assume has something to do with this thread and why I lay'd it out as I did before and just now.

Please let me state I have nothing against anyone, its just arguments under what I see would be the link between religion and dysphoria.

The authors found that adolescents referred to gender clinics had significantly higher rates of requiring further psychiatric treatment than the control groups, both before and two years after referral.

Nearly 46% of adolescents with gender dysphoria had obtained psychiatric treatment before being referred to a gender clinic. Two years later, that rate increased to nearly 62%.

The need for further psychiatric treatment increased significantly during follow-up for patients who underwent medicalized gender transition, rising from roughly 10% to 61% for male-to-female transitioners and from 22% to 55% for female-to-male transitioners.

After adjusting for prior treatment, girls with gender dysphoria were three times as likely to need additional psychiatric treatment in the future compared to their peers, regardless of whether they underwent medical sex reassignment. Boys with gender dysphoria, with or without medicalization, were five times as likely to need future psychiatric care compared to their peers.

Dr. Kurt Miceli, a psychiatrist and the Chief Medical Officer for the medical ethics organization Do No Harm, told the Washington Examiner that he believes the study challenges the argument that gender transition medicine is the necessary first-line treatment.

“In reality, what we’re seeing is that there’s an even greater need for individuals who have undergone these medical interventions for psychiatric services,” Miceli said. “That really should help alarm us and make sure that we were providing those psychiatric services initially.”

This is part of the article's text. There is no mention of God in the article. Generally speaking - and I put myself first among the guilty- I wonder how we ended up talking about God starting from a psychiatry article.


I believe this should be a lesson for everyone: a clinical-scientific text does not express political or religious ideas; it expresses something that is objectively measurable through scrupulously methodical investigations. (Otherwise, they lose their validity). This is what I wanted to communicate last night. Please forgive me, but it was late here and I was tired. I just wanted to convey this concept

-Giammarco

 

[Asa]

Original sin argument

God made a perfect world

then sin happened

now we have "deformities"

"Deformities" are not the result of sin.

 

[Wyote]

In humanity, one is ALWAYS singularly male or female. Deformities are exceptions, not the rule, and even with genital deformities, it is still clear whether they are male or female based on the kind of gametes the person produces. No human being on earth is both male and female, nor neither female nor male, nor "born in the wrong body." For the latter, that is simply a mental issue so it needs to be addressed as a mental issue.

The point of the article is that, rather than making the patient's mental health better by transitioning into the opposite gender, it actually has the reverse effect of making the patient's mental health worse. This simply aligns with the traditional view of sexuality, which has been normative for humans for almost all of its history (with some very few exceptions).

I get what you’re saying but biology is way more of a spectrum than a binary. The research is available.
Mental health issues usually come from people being treated poorly or rejected by their community, not the transition itself.
Data consistently shows that when trans and non-binary youth live in "gender-affirming" environments (where they are respected and supported), their rates of attempted suicide drop by over 40%.

I am not arguing with your point about more/better care being needed, better treatments both physiologically and psychologically.
We are so new at this kind of care that many things are still unknown. The mental component is certainly a large factor.
Shouldn't we focus on being supportive instead of just labeling people as "mental cases" because they don't fit a specific mold?

100% ,but Quick posted an article, not the bible


-Giammarco

You caught my one hesitation of my response.
I thought it would be obvious that I was examining this from a larger viewpoint, taking into account the historical knowledge of Quick's posts here.
If it were his first post, I would simply have a lot of questions.
Why does this person care so much about trans issues? They are after all, in his own words, a minority.
There are many other pressing issues in the world that have wider scope of damage.
But this issue of trans rights is a major talking point of the conservative party right now.
So when anyone brings it up/keeps bringing it up, it is obvious they are just indoctrinated by political agendas.

 

[QuickTwist]

I get what you’re saying but biology is way more of a spectrum than a binary.

It's not, and I explained why. Gametes is what determines if someone is male or female. There is no such thing as producing both eggs and sperm or no eggs or sperm. Therefore, a person is always either male or female. This is what the science says, not armchair gender studies graduates.

 

[Wyote]

See the problem is just an unwillingness to learn
You have your information and it supports your agenda and that's just the end of it

 

[Fruiteloop]

So what exactly is a male and a female psychology?
Everything about it is only to do with the body?

That is my aim, to understand what is happening in a person mind when it comes to gender.

 

[Wyote]

Do gametes determine sex by themselves
The short answer is no, not entirely. While gametes provide the initial genetic "instruction manual" at the moment of conception, the development of biological sex is a multi-stage process involving genetics, hormones, and cellular responses.

In biology, it is more accurate to say that gametes determine chromosomal sex, which is only the first step in a complex chain of events.


Does chromosomal sex determine if you are male or female on its own
In short, no. Chromosomal sex provides the "blueprint," but biological sex is the result of a multi-stage process where that blueprint must be successfully read and executed by the body.

While XX (typically female) and XY (typically male) are the most common starting points, several other factors must align to determine a person's final biological sex.

 

[QuickTwist]

Do gametes determine sex by themselves
The short answer is no, not entirely. While gametes provide the initial genetic "instruction manual" at the moment of conception, the development of biological sex is a multi-stage process involving genetics, hormones, and cellular responses.

In biology, it is more accurate to say that gametes determine chromosomal sex, which is only the first step in a complex chain of events.


Does chromosomal sex determine if you are male or female on its own
In short, no. Chromosomal sex provides the "blueprint," but biological sex is the result of a multi-stage process where that blueprint must be successfully read and executed by the body.

While XX (typically female) and XY (typically male) are the most common starting points, several other factors must align to determine a person's final biological sex.

Sure. Cite your source? Is this from scientific literature, or gender studies pundits?

 

[QuickTwist]

The DNA is the cause of sex. That is represented by gametes. The DNA does not change. The process in the womb does not mean that "it could be different."

 

[QuickTwist]

Whatever sex expression a person has, it is determined. It is not subjective.

 

[aeon]

Gemini said:

While gametes (sperm and egg cells) are the functional units of sexual reproduction, the determination of biological sex is a multifaceted process involving genetics, hormones, and anatomy. Gametes are the result of sex determination rather than the sole cause of it.
Biological sex is generally understood through three distinct layers:

1. Genetic (Chromosomal) Sex

In humans, sex is typically initiated at fertilization by the inheritance of sex chromosomes.
XY: Generally leads to male development.
XX: Generally leads to female development.

The key factor is often the SRY gene (Sex-determining Region Y), usually found on the Y chromosome. If this gene is present and functional, it triggers the development of testes; if it is absent, the organism typically develops ovaries.

2. Gonadal Sex

This refers to the internal organs—the gonads—that produce gametes.

Testes produce sperm (male gametes).
Ovaries produce ova (female gametes).

However, the presence of specific gonads doesn't always align perfectly with chromosomes. For example, in cases of Sawyer syndrome, an individual may have XY chromosomes but develop functional female reproductive structures because the SRY gene is missing or inactive.

3. Phenotypic (Morphological) Sex

This layer involves the external anatomy and secondary sex characteristics (like breast tissue or facial hair) influenced by hormones.

Androgens (like testosterone) drive the development of male characteristics.

Estrogens drive female characteristics.

If a body’s receptors are insensitive to these hormones—such as in Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS)—an individual with XY chromosomes and internal testes may develop an entirely female external phenotype.

Biological Variations

Nature frequently demonstrates that sex is not always a binary determined by a single factor.

Intersex variations occur when there is a mismatch between these layers. This can include:

Chromosomal variations: Such as XXY (Klinefelter syndrome) or X (Turner syndrome).

Hormonal variations: Where the body produces or responds to hormones in non-typical ways.

In summary, while gametes define the reproductive role of an organism, biological sex is determined by a complex "relay race" of genetic signals and hormonal exposures.

Cheers,
Ian