180 - 300 Million Radicalised Muslims

[MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION] [MENTION=13855]JJJA[/MENTION] [MENTION=4871]CindyLou[/MENTION] [MENTION=12656]Elegant Winter[/MENTION]

This scholar Reza Aslan makes very interesting points about how people perceive Islam in our country. In this video he is trying to help people understand that they are making a common mistake of confusing a correlation with a cause.

Just because violence is in some cases correlated with Islam does not mean we can point to Islam as the cause of the violence. Islam is also correlated with peace in many countries but the mainstream media chooses to ignore that fact and focus on the enemy. Lets be real, we need oil. We need a reason to be there. Oil is the lifeblood of our economy. Next time you are driving in traffic, imagine if every car on the street suddenly ran out of gas. What would be the impact on your life and the life of everyone around you?

Watch this video and try to have an open mind. The guys voice annoys me a bit but he is extremely intelligent. He has 4 degrees in religion and works professionally as a religious scholar. He is also a Muslim who is married to a Christian.

[video=youtube;G1QfgDkFR5E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1QfgDkFR5E[/video]

And if you guys are unsure about a correlation vs a cause. One example that a professor in college gave me was that ice cream sales are correlated with crime. He showed a chart to the whole class. When ice cream sales increase, crime goes up. But consumption of ice cream obviously doesn't cause crime. Warm weather causes crime because it creates more night activity. Warm weather also causes an increase in ice cream consumption.
 
CindyLou said:
Respect life? Lol. Well done on the parody there, poe.
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I'm serious. We caught a rat in a cage and drove a few miles away and released it back into the jungle. Also they were the first people who I lived with who didn't kill centipedes. Where I live there are gnarly centipedes that bite and their venom causes excruciating pain that lasts for about 3 days. Everyone kills them without thinking twice. While living on the Muslim retreat there was a centipede in the kitchen and I was about to stomp it and I was told not to. They said "let it go". The centipede never harmed me.
 
veryINFJ said:
@Flavus Aquila @JJJA @CindyLou @Elegant Winter

This scholar Reza Aslan makes very interesting points about how people perceive Islam in our country. In this video he is trying to help people understand that they are making a common mistake of confusing a correlation with a cause.

Just because violence is in some cases correlated with Islam does not mean we can point to Islam as the cause of the violence. Islam is also correlated with peace in many countries but the mainstream media chooses to ignore that fact and focus on the enemy. Lets be real, we need oil. We need a reason to be there. Oil is the lifeblood of our economy. Next time you are driving in traffic, imagine if every car on the street suddenly ran out of gas. What would be the impact on your life and the life of everyone around you?

Watch this video and try to have an open mind. The guys voice annoys me a bit but he is extremely intelligent. He has 4 degrees in religion and works professionally as a religious scholar. He is also a Muslim who is married to a Christian.

[video=youtube;G1QfgDkFR5E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1QfgDkFR5E[/video]

And if you guys are unsure about a correlation vs a cause. One example that a professor in college gave me was that ice cream sales are correlated with crime. He showed a chart to the whole class. When ice cream sales increase, crime goes up. But consumption of ice cream obviously doesn't cause crime. Warm weather causes crime because it creates more night activity. Warm weather also causes an increase in ice cream consumption.
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His argument is simply: Not all muslims are violent/oppressive to women; therefore violence and sexism has nothing to do with islam specifically.

Your defense of muslims depends on three fallacies:
1. Straw man: Claiming that someone has made an argument that they have not, specifically point 2:
2. Confusion of correlation and causation (which is indeed a fallacious argument).
3. Argument from fallacy: Which assumes that if a particular argument to a particular conclusion is fallacious, then that conclusion must be false.

Reza Aslan is doing nothing more than stating that all muslims are different; he uses this to argue that no issue is common to all muslims. He completely fails to engage with that which is common to all muslims, which are is the quran and other 'scriptures'. If these documents, which are common to all muslims are juxtaposed with the plethora of muslim issues (eg. violence, beheadings, stonings, mistreatment of women, etc.), then not only does correlation emerge, but indeed an irrefutable causal connection.

The predicable response from a muslim sympathiser, if the discussion it taken to what the quran says and what muslims do, would be to make appeal to the validity of different schools of interpretation of the quran, without any possible way of claiming that one school of interpretation is more valid than another.
 
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veryINFJ said:
LOL

Yeah, every Muslim lives in the desert.

Just like how every black man is struggling in the inner city, selling crack.
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Biggest straw-man ever, followed by predictable racial bait. You must be a professional double-thinker.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
His argument is simply: Not all muslims are violent/oppressive to women; therefore violence and sexism has nothing to do with islam specifically.

Your defense of muslims depends on three fallacies:
1. Straw man: Claiming that someone has made an argument that they have not, specifically point 2:
2. Confusion of correlation and causation (which is indeed a fallacious argument).
3. Argument from fallacy: Which assumes that if a particular argument to a particular conclusion is fallacious, then that conclusion must be false.

Reza Aslan is doing nothing more than stating that all muslims are different; he uses this to argue that no issue is common to all muslims. He completely fails to engage with that which is common to all muslims, which are is the quran and other 'scriptures'. If these documents, which are common to all muslims are juxtaposed with the plethora of muslim issues (eg. violence, beheadings, stonings, mistreatment of women, etc.), then not only does correlation emerge, but indeed an irrefutable causal connection.

The predicable response from a muslim sympathiser, if the discussion it taken to what the quran says and what muslims do, would be to make appeal to the validity of different schools of interpretation of the quran, without any possible way of claiming that one school of interpretation is more valid than another.
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Flavus, it is what he's talking about. He doesn't use the exact words "correlation and cause". But half of his rant is trying to point out exactly that. The interviewers Don Lemon and that other chick ask about women's rights in Muslim countries. He responds by saying that just because some of these countries with human rights violations happen to be Muslim, doesn't mean it's Islam that is causing the humans rights violations. He then gives examples of Muslim countries that have achieved equal rights for men and women.

When he talks about female mutilation he points out that female mutilation is not a Muslim problem, it's a central African problem. And he gives examples of countries in central Africa with high rates of mutilation that are Christian countries. Again, correlation vs cause.

The whole rant is about correlation vs. cause. I'm surprised you can't see it. Maybe you didn't watch the video and pay full attention.

Also, thanks for calling me a "muslim sympathiser". It could be worse, at least you didn't call me a "nigger-lover".
 
veryINFJ said:
[MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION] [MENTION=13855]JJJA[/MENTION] [MENTION=4871]CindyLou[/MENTION] [MENTION=12656]Elegant Winter[/MENTION]

This scholar Reza Aslan makes very interesting points about how people perceive Islam in our country. In this video he is trying to help people understand that they are making a common mistake of confusing a correlation with a cause.

Just because violence is in some cases correlated with Islam does not mean we can point to Islam as the cause of the violence. Islam is also correlated with peace in many countries but the mainstream media chooses to ignore that fact and focus on the enemy. Lets be real, we need oil. We need a reason to be there. Oil is the lifeblood of our economy. Next time you are driving in traffic, imagine if every car on the street suddenly ran out of gas. What would be the impact on your life and the life of everyone around you?

Watch this video and try to have an open mind. The guys voice annoys me a bit but he is extremely intelligent. He has 4 degrees in religion and works professionally as a religious scholar. He is also a Muslim who is married to a Christian.

[video=youtube;G1QfgDkFR5E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1QfgDkFR5E[/video]

And if you guys are unsure about a correlation vs a cause. One example that a professor in college gave me was that ice cream sales are correlated with crime. He showed a chart to the whole class. When ice cream sales increase, crime goes up. But consumption of ice cream obviously doesn't cause crime. Warm weather causes crime because it creates more night activity. Warm weather also causes an increase in ice cream consumption.
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"All information is invalid. Listen to this Muslim apologist instead." - veryINFJ
 
Elegant Winter said:
"Seventy-eight percent support punishment for the people who earlier this year published cartoons featuring the Prophet Mohammed. Sixty-eight percent support the arrest and prosecution of those British people who "insult Islam." When asked if free speech should be protected, even if it offends religious groups, 62 percent of British Muslims say, "No, it should not."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-british-muslims-put-islam-first/

If nothing else, it's clear the majority of Muslims believe in some kind of punishment for those who slander Islam. My question is this: What happens when Muslims constitute a significant portion of European populations?

Also, from the same article: "Twenty-eight percent hope for the U.K. one day to become a fundamentalist Islamic state. This comports with last year's Daily Telegraph newspaper survey that found one-third of British Muslims believe that Western society is decadent and immoral and that Muslims should seek to end it."
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One of the problems here are that many of these people cant see a difference between their religion and their government. Is tbis any different than those who say they support punishment for those who disrespect the American flag?
 
Eventhorizon said:
One of the problems here are that many of these people cant see a difference between their religion and their government. Is tbis any different than those who say they support punishment for those who disrespect the American flag?
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Deport 'em.
 
veryINFJ said:
Flavus, it is what he's talking about. He doesn't use the exact words "correlation and cause". But half of his rant is trying to point out exactly that. The interviewers Don Lemon and that other chick ask about women's rights in Muslim countries. He responds by saying that just because some of these countries with human rights violations happen to be Muslim, doesn't mean it's Islam that is causing the humans rights violations. He then gives examples of Muslim countries that have achieved equal rights for men and women.

When he talks about female mutilation he points out that female mutilation is not a Muslim problem, it's a central African problem. And he gives examples of countries in central Africa with high rates of mutilation that are Christian countries. Again, correlation vs cause.

The whole rant is about correlation vs. cause. I'm surprised you can't see it. Maybe you didn't watch the video and pay full attention.

Also, thanks for calling me a "muslim sympathiser". It could be worse, at least you didn't call me a "nigger-lover".
Click to expand...

Hold on here a minute. I'm still not sure you're not a poe. You aren't seriously comparing the N word as slightly worse to "muslim-sympathizer", right? You see how someone on the sane side of things sees your posts as parody?
 
CindyLou said:
Hold on here a minute. I'm still not sure you're not a poe. You aren't seriously comparing the N word as slightly worse to "muslim-sympathizer", right? You see how someone on the sane side of things sees your posts as parody?
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I was wondering what you meant by "poe". I googled it, interesting... It's not a word I would add to my vocab. I won't be adding "straw man" to my vocab either. I still need to google "double thinker" and figure that one out.

You can call them negro-sympathizers if it's a better comparison for you. Or nigger-lover if you want to be an asshole about it. It just depends on what your preference is.

Edit: Okay I'll just say it plain and clear. My point is; you guys are bigots. If you are going to alienate, generalize, and fear a whole chunk of our planets population. People who live in different countries all over the globe, speak different languages, have different family lives, have different genetics, have different life experiences, different levels of education, different interpretations of the belief. If you guys are going to judge a faith that huge. Then next time you see a skin head on TV, don't lie to yourself and convince yourself that you are any better than the hillbilly who has a swastika tattooed on his neck. Look at him and know he's your equal. That's all I'm saying.

I'm done posting in this thread. Peace bitches.
(drops the mic)
 
veryINFJ said:
I was wondering what you meant by "poe". I googled it, interesting... It's not a word I would add to my vocab. I won't be adding "straw man" to my vocab either. I still need to google "double thinker" and figure that one out.

You can call them negro-sympathizers if it's a better comparison for you. Or nigger-lover if you want to be an asshole about it. It just depends on what your preference is.

Edit: Okay I'll just say it plain and clear. My point is; you guys are bigots. If you are going to alienate, generalize, and fear a whole chunk of our planets population. People who live in different countries all over the globe, speak different languages, have different family lives, have different genetics, have different life experiences, different levels of education, different interpretations of the belief. If you guys are going to judge a faith that huge. Then next time you see a skin head on TV, don't lie to yourself and convince yourself that you are any better than the hillbilly who has a swastika tattooed on his neck. Look at him and know he's your equal. That's all I'm saying.

I'm done posting in this thread. Peace bitches.
(drops the mic)
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I shall translate the above disingenuous post: "I think that anybody I find that even slightly criticises this violent and totalitarian fantasy is a Nazi. Reason: I don't need a reason because Islam requires no justification. It is submission, and therefore you cannot criticize Islam. You are a Nazi. My logic is sound."

If we're all genuine Nazis, we'd be drooling over Islam and how compatible it is with Nazism. But going over a bunch of facts is wasting my time because you seem to want to ignore the facts unless they justify murder.
 
veryINFJ said:
I was wondering what you meant by "poe". I googled it, interesting... It's not a word I would add to my vocab. I won't be adding "straw man" to my vocab either. I still need to google "double thinker" and figure that one out.

You can call them negro-sympathizers if it's a better comparison for you. Or nigger-lover if you want to be an asshole about it. It just depends on what your preference is.

Edit: Okay I'll just say it plain and clear. My point is; you guys are bigots. If you are going to alienate, generalize, and fear a whole chunk of our planets population. People who live in different countries all over the globe, speak different languages, have different family lives, have different genetics, have different life experiences, different levels of education, different interpretations of the belief. If you guys are going to judge a faith that huge. Then next time you see a skin head on TV, don't lie to yourself and convince yourself that you are any better than the hillbilly who has a swastika tattooed on his neck. Look at him and know he's your equal. That's all I'm saying.

I'm done posting in this thread. Peace bitches.
(drops the mic)
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That's pretty harsh talk for me just saying I thought you were trolling by comparing the N word to muslim sympathizer.

No worries, though. I know what's right and what's wrong and other people don't define me, what I think, or who I am. Luckily, I know the difference between a religion and a race. Lets see how many times you can use the N word in this thread while you're implying we are the racists.
 
veryINFJ said:
If you are going to alienate, generalize, and fear a whole chunk of our planets population. People who live in different countries all over the globe, speak different languages, have different family lives, have different genetics, have different life experiences, different levels of education, different interpretations of the belief. If you guys are going to judge a faith that huge. T
(drops the mic)
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This is what Islam teaches. You've turned it around, they've turned it around wagging the finger at us and you fell for it hook line and sinker. It's just like the abusive partner blaming the abused. It teaches that anyone who is not a believer is a kafir. Why don't you look up what happens to the unbelievers and what if any is said about them and what ought to happen to them. Who am I alienating? Who am I judging? Why don't you say that to them?

What is this some kind of mass stockholm syndrome? I'm the bad guy here? Ever get to know a narcissist or a psychopath really well and then later on you discover that when they attack you they're actually talking about themselves? That is Islam. Everything Islam says we are, Islam is speaking about itself. Islam calls for jihad. Islam judges us. Islam murders. Islam attacks us in its own name. Islam is abusive physically, mentally, and spiritually but they've got everyone believing that if you so much as even give Islam the side eye you're some kind of a bigot. This is an abusive situation.

That guy there on CNN. What is good about him is where you see the absence of Islam in his life. Im quite sure he's not anyone a Muslim respects, though what difference does that make he's not trying to get the respect of Muslims. He's trying to get your respect. You fell for it.
 
veryINFJ said:
I was wondering what you meant by "poe". I googled it, interesting... It's not a word I would add to my vocab. I won't be adding "straw man" to my vocab either. I still need to google "double thinker" and figure that one out.

You can call them negro-sympathizers if it's a better comparison for you. Or nigger-lover if you want to be an asshole about it. It just depends on what your preference is.

Edit: Okay I'll just say it plain and clear. My point is; you guys are bigots. If you are going to alienate, generalize, and fear a whole chunk of our planets population. People who live in different countries all over the globe, speak different languages, have different family lives, have different genetics, have different life experiences, different levels of education, different interpretations of the belief. If you guys are going to judge a faith that huge. Then next time you see a skin head on TV, don't lie to yourself and convince yourself that you are any better than the hillbilly who has a swastika tattooed on his neck. Look at him and know he's your equal. That's all I'm saying.

I'm done posting in this thread. Peace bitches.
(drops the mic)
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Islam is trying to be the bully in this picture.

Don't loose your cool, you might turn violent and kill a centipede, or go out and buy rat-traps.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Islam is trying to be the bully in this picture.

Don't loose your cool, you might turn violent and kill a centipede, or go out and buy rat-traps.
Click to expand...

No, actually, you're just a bigot, Flavus.
 
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