180 - 300 Million Radicalised Muslims

[JJJA]

You speak about yourself, not me. Muslims have been killing other Muslims and non-Muslims since the beginning for not being Islamic enough. Thats Islam.

Remember Asad Shah? Murdered by one of his fellow Muslims for 'disrespecting' the religion. This could easily have happened to a non-believer like myself; it was over a Facebook comment he made. The only people that would think this was nothing to do with Islam consist of bullies, liars, political deceivers, religious bodies (because they know that criticism of Islam is also criticism of religion, they will do anything to deflect criticism) and last but not least: members of the general public that think that the hurt feelings of those on Twitter require more protection than those that get repeated death threats, their friends murdered, or even themselves killed. What I've seen on this forum recently has shocked me.

 

[Skarekrow]

Remember Asad Shah? Murdered by one of his fellow Muslims for 'disrespecting' the religion. This could easily have happened to a non-believer like myself; it was over a Facebook comment he made. The only people that would think this was nothing to do with Islam consist of bullies, liars, political deceivers, religious bodies (because they know that criticism of Islam is also criticism of religion, they will do anything to deflect criticism) and last but not least: members of the general public that think that the hurt feelings of those on Twitter require more protection than those that get repeated death threats, their friends murdered, or even themselves killed. What I've seen on this forum recently has shocked me.

Don’t be so dramatic.
If the numbers of radicalized Muslims ever gets that high (thread title)...then you should go sign up for military service (like I did when I was younger) and defend what you think is being attacked if you are so deeply invested in the views you and some others here are.
Try being a medic actually, like I am...gives you a broader perspective on people being shot...especially when kids get shot...that was always my favorite thing to do was watch/try and save some young kid who will inevitably die from being shot.

Where are peacemakers?
Where are the people who will listen to that message?

Now it looks more and more like this guy in the night club was at odds with his sexuality as he was a “regular” there...crazy people only need an excuse not a religion (one of many things people use to justify killing those they perceive to “hate”).

No one is defending the actions of any terrorists or crazy fucks with sexual identity issues and an AR-15.
We should be searching for the path that will bring peace...the path that doesn’t start a giant religious war.
Whatever...peace.

 

[dang]

In order to solve any problem, one must first diagnose said problem. Until we are capable of having honest conversations concerning religion, Islam, the Middle East, terrorism, and geopolitics, there is no way we can have peace and harmony. Van Gogh's descendent was murdered for making a film. Think about that. Islam intimidates us and our values which leads to forced censorship and an attack on our freedom of speech. If I draw a cartoon of Jesus, I don't need to worry much about a violent Christian backlash. If I draw a cartoon of Muhammad, I will probably be killed. And the point I have been trying to make is that even though most Muslims would not try to kill me for said "offense," a huge proportion do believe that this action is a crime which should be punished. That is anti democratic, anti free speech, anti American, etc. Anyone incapable of grasping that the doctrine of Islam is a particularly fertile ground for the development of violence and terrorism is in my opinion hiding their head's in the ground. Sorry to make the comparison, but many people were reluctant to criticize Germany in the 1930's. Look how that turned out. If we do not address the underlying issues at hand, I fear our problems will become worse. Much worse. I want to be standing on the right side of history. ISIS is of course a cancer, but it did not spring out of no where (like al Qaeda). We need to understand what is really going on in the world before it becomes too late. I am so damn tired of this subject. But it won't be going away any time soon.

 

[Skarekrow]

In order to solve any problem, one must first diagnose said problem. Until we are capable of having honest conversations concerning religion, Islam, the Middle East, terrorism, and geopolitics, there is no way we can have peace and harmony. Van Gogh's descendent was murdered for making a film. Think about that. Islam intimidates us and our values which leads to forced censorship and an attack on our freedom of speech. If I draw a cartoon of Jesus, I don't need to worry much about a violent Christian backlash. If I draw a cartoon of Muhammad, I will probably be killed. And the point I have been trying to make is that even though most Muslims would not try to kill me for said "offense," a huge proportion do believe that this action is a crime which should be punished. That is anti democratic, anti free speech, anti American, etc. Anyone incapable of grasping that the doctrine of Islam is a particularly fertile ground for the development of violence and terrorism is in my opinion hiding their head's in the ground. Sorry to make the comparison, but many people were reluctant to criticize Germany in the 1930's. Look how that turned out. If we do not address the underlying issues at hand, I fear our problems will become worse. Much worse. I want to be standing on the right side of history. ISIS is of course a cancer, but it did not spring out of no where (like al Qaeda). We need to understand what is really going on in the world before it becomes too late. I am so damn tired of this subject. But it won't be going away any time soon.

But let’s also not make the same mistakes that we have made again and again when we marginalize people and paint them with too broad a brush.
Manzanar is a good example...or the McCarthy hearings.
Plus, the US is the prime destabilizer of the middle east...people can argue all they want, but our purpose there has always been to keep the oil flowing at a cheap rate....and if you do that for us we’ll sell you arms and jets...like Saudi Arabia - who is the biggest sponsor of terrorist action, who has the worst human right violations...if any nation should be ostracized for being too radical it’s them...yet we practically lube ourselves up for them to do whatever they want so long as those two things keep happening.
I’m not worried about Muslim attacks in the US...it may/may not happen again...we still have mass school shootings like once a week now and no one gives a fuck anymore.
It’s commonplace here in ‘Murica...we’re desensitized to it all.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t protect the country or stop ISIS from doing what it’s doing...but any fear-based thinking is not thinking clearly.
Trump wants to not allow any Muslims in the country...what do we do with those already here? Start mass surveillance into people’s lives? Where does it end? What is justified and by who’s moral code are we basing that?
Fox news and friends make a big deal that Obama won’t say “Radicalized Muslim”, it’s all rhetoric...and I agree that we should watch what we say sometimes because sometimes such things only promote the idea that the west is in some kind of religious war with Islam, that only goes to serve the terrorists to try and make it into a religious war.
In the meantime, let’s keep taking money from the NRA’s lobbyists and block any and all common sense legislation that would have helped keep AR-15s out of the hands of people like the nightclub shooter...who was on the watch list, had been investigated twice, has made odd comments to coworkers and people he knew who reported them...and still...thanks Florida with your almost nonexistent gun laws for making so incredibly easy for such a person to buy such a weapon...not a weapon made for hunting animals...that gun is made specifically to kill people.
Fin.

 

[brightmoon]

Trump wants to not allow any Muslims in the country...what do we do with those already here? Start mass surveillance into people’s lives? Where does it end? What is justified and by who’s moral code are we basing that?

I would add to this by stating AGAIN that we need Muslim allies (the Kurds primarily) to defeat Daesh. Alienating Muslims by tarring all 1.3 billion of them as radical potential terrorists is not only morally wrong it's strategically foolish and guarantees that its going to be our "boots on the ground" for the next 20, 30,40, years in the Middle East. By deporting Muslims and discriminating against them we play Daesh's game and make it easier for them to claim to speak for and defend ALL Muslims. Daesh needs to be isolated not encouraged.

I said I was done with toxic thread and yet here I am again...

 

[dang]

But let’s also not make the same mistakes that we have made again and again when we marginalize people and paint them with too broad a brush.
Manzanar is a good example...or the McCarthy hearings.
Plus, the US is the prime destabilizer of the middle east...people can argue all they want, but our purpose there has always been to keep the oil flowing at a cheap rate....and if you do that for us we’ll sell you arms and jets...like Saudi Arabia - who is the biggest sponsor of terrorist action, who has the worst human right violations...if any nation should be ostracized for being too radical it’s them...yet we practically lube ourselves up for them to do whatever they want so long as those two things keep happening.
I’m not worried about Muslim attacks in the US...it may/may not happen again...we still have mass school shootings like once a week now and no one gives a fuck anymore.
It’s commonplace here in ‘Murica...we’re desensitized to it all.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t protect the country or stop ISIS from doing what it’s doing...but any fear-based thinking is not thinking clearly.
Trump wants to not allow any Muslims in the country...what do we do with those already here? Start mass surveillance into people’s lives? Where does it end? What is justified and by who’s moral code are we basing that?
Fox news and friends make a big deal that Obama won’t say “Radicalized Muslim”, it’s all rhetoric...and I agree that we should watch what we say sometimes because sometimes such things only promote the idea that the west is in some kind of religious war with Islam, that only goes to serve the terrorists to try and make it into a religious war.
In the meantime, let’s keep taking money from the NRA’s lobbyists and block any and all common sense legislation that would have helped keep AR-15s out of the hands of people like the nightclub shooter...who was on the watch list, had been investigated twice, has made odd comments to coworkers and people he knew who reported them...and still...thanks Florida with your almost nonexistent gun laws for making so incredibly easy for such a person to buy such a weapon...not a weapon made for hunting animals...that gun is made specifically to kill people.
Fin.

I agree.

 

[dang]

I would add to this by stating AGAIN that we need Muslim allies (the Kurds primarily) to defeat Daesh. Alienating Muslims by tarring all 1.3 billion of them as radical potential terrorists is not only morally wrong it's strategically foolish and guarantees that its going to be our "boots on the ground" for the next 20, 30,40, years in the Middle East. By deporting Muslims and discriminating against them we play Daesh's game and make it easier for them to claim to speak for and defend ALL Muslims. Daesh needs to be isolated not encouraged.

I said I was done with toxic thread and yet here I am again...

I agree. After a good conversation with my brother I have developed a more nuanced position. I don't think it is black and white. We both have made some solid points. It is about ideology instead of just Islam or religion. Social conditions can not be ignored. Ultimately in every case of mass violence you have a case of leadership with power manipulating vulnerable followers by any means necessary. The Nazis, the KKK, and Jonestown were not religious. I dislike religion, but I dislike unhealthy ideology and mind control and control paradigms even more. Plus violence is violence. And ethical is ethical. How do we really distinguish between terrorism, cult violence, gang fighting, tribalism, war, hate crimes, and other forms of murder? Isn't it just a matter of semantics? And who chooses the words we use? Was the Nagasaki bombing ethical? Could it be described as a form of terrorism? The point I want to make is let's focus on the big picture instead of squabbling over the details. The government and media are clearly driving the current narrative. Let's be like Socrates and challenge the questions being asked. Most people accept what they hear. That is why our next president could be Trump who could easily become a demagogue and a fascist. Ethnic Japanese were incarcerated in this country in the 1940's. The same thing could happen again with Muslims, Mexicans, and "terrorists" like us who ask too many questions. I appreciate your efforts to challenge my ideas. I prefer the truth to being right. We could be in for a crazy summer with the conventions, olympics, festivals, etc. I don't want us to be the victims of a divide and conquer strategy. Two people who agree 90% of the time are not enemies. They should be allies. Like the US and Canada. Although as an American, I can't find Canada on a map. I got a real good edumacation here you know. I be wicked smart yo. Later.