Bad People Don't Exist

RememberWhenItRained said:
If someone wronged me, and they changed, they're still them, and they still wronged me in the past. Yes, they might have changed, and i would forgive them, but it doesn't negate the history. There is no simple erasure.

so by your reasoning, (sorry to use such a cliched example) Hitler and Stalin were just acting poorly and weren't themselves bad people? What about Ted Bundy, Timothy McVeigh, and Terry Nichols?

we're going to have to agree to disagree. Your and my definitions of bad people, and how evil and the actions of a person defines them are different. But, interesting discuession - thanks.
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How about Albert Fish?

His mother was a crazy christian baptist who caught him playing with his penis, so she spent his youth terrifying him that his penis was from the devil and by playing with it he was going to hell... at some point he began sticking pins into it instead and repressing his sexuality completely. Eventually he began leading kids out into the woods and cutting their penis' off in his mind he was saving them from hell... add into that the confusion and anger from his mother and probably a weak will and he began killing and eating them too. But it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't evil, he was made into a monster through systematic abuse and religious indoctrination. When he set out he thought he was helping people, not rubbing his palms together wondering how he can damn himself with evil deeds to hell.
 
His mother was evil, and evil contaminates and destroys. They create very sick people who also cause suffering. That boy was doomed from the start. :(
 
CindyLou said:
His mother was evil, and evil contaminates and destroys. They create very sick people who also cause suffering. That boy was doomed from the start. :(
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His mother was evil to you, not to herself. Both of them thought they were being pious. Would his mother have done such things if she hadn't been raised by Christians to think sex was evil and immoral? Seems the common problem they shared was their religious indoctrination... maybe Christianity is evil since it was the method and root cause of the torment for them both.
 
Billy said:
His mother was evil to you, not to herself. Both of them thought they were being pious. Would his mother have done such things if she hadn't been raised by Christians to think sex was evil and immoral? Seems the common problem they shared was their religious indoctrination... maybe Christianity is evil since it was the method and root cause of the torment for them both.
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Right. Of course she wasn't evil or bad in her own eyes...that's a pretty good characteristic of someone to avoid. Christianity doesn't teach that sex is evil or immoral but obviously she corrupted it at some point just like she corrupted and destroyed her son. Maybe Christianity has been so corrupted I can call it evil (for my own benefit to stay away, what I call something doesn't make it happen). I'd have to be around them more, collectively and find out. No one is above reproach. Not even Christianity.
 
CindyLou said:
Right. Of course she wasn't evil or bad in her own eyes...that's a pretty good characteristic of someone to avoid. Christianity doesn't teach that sex is evil or immoral but obviously she corrupted it at some point just like she corrupted and destroyed her son. Maybe Christianity has been so corrupted I can call it evil (for my own benefit to stay away, what I call something doesn't make it happen). I'd have to be around them more, collectively and find out. No one is above reproach. Not even Christianity.
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Nobody thinks they are evil. So why even say that? And she didnt obviously corrupt it, she was regurgitating what she learned, what her church taught her. And there are definite verses in the bible that demonize sex, cripes the Catholic church says sex for anything other than procreation is essentially adultery.
 
CindyLou said:
Sure they do.

I never ran into any specific teaching that sex was evil or immoral. I don't know much about about the catechisms of the catholic church.
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Who thinks they are evil? You may not know much about it, and yet it is there. The Puritans also held similar views.
 
Poetic Justice said:
I'm sorry to hear that and let me start by saying I in no way think that sort of thing is ok.

Our most base emotional states are related to eating, staying out of danger and sex

We don't get to choose what we are attracted to. Some people have sex with animals. Some with objects. Some, unfortunately with children. Google, "kinds of philia" and you will see that people have sex with pretty much anything. You could think of it as a miswiring of the brain. An essential part of being a human which didn't quite develop in the way it shoud have. Any kind of person could be born with one of these philias. They could have any personality. You could have been born with any one of these and still be the person you are, just with this one miswiring

Add to this a weak will and/or a lack of empathy and this could cause a person to act on these desires. You know when you realise you really shouldn't eat that last piece of cake but you do anyway? Take the structure in the brain that causes you to eat the cake, turn the volume up and make it about sex and there you go.

Perhaps many or even all paedos hate themselves for what they do and wish something would stop them.

Obviously if they can't help themselves they should be forever locked up or killed.
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Something evil would happen to that person who did that.
[MENTION=1451]Billy[/MENTION], that avatar looks terrible. Note I didn't call it evil.
 
Your eye looks to be in pretty good shape compared to the rest of your face. Hope that isn't real.
 
Had both my eyes closed before and remember it painfully. Accident with a baseball bat. Back to the evil discussion.
 
Poetic Justice said:
Well I guess he's probably in jail right now so yes

I hope so anyway
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nope; he's running around...free...until trial.
He was charged with the wrong thing initially; apparently because it was saturday and the people who work on saturday don't know what to charge people with....and they changed it on monday but it was already too late...he bonded out with a 10,000 bond. (so 1k)

And yes; I get some satisfaction in knowing that something bad will probably happen to him in prison. I'm sure he will make some new friends.
 
Send him my way. I know a woman that will fix him up.
[video=youtube;J8sr74iCjyA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8sr74iCjyA&feature=related[/video]
 
bad people exist inside the catholic church too

of course evil things have been done in the name of religion...

religious folks can be misguided and do things that are absolutely wrong

religion itself is not able to make people righteous and blameless
we should not depend on religion to justify ourselves
religion cannot purify us, no matter how hard we try

we live our lives according to our convictions

what can we agree on at this point in this discussion?
some people believe in the existence of evil and others dont

im interested in uncovering the fundamental issues
petty arguments are boring

what we actually agree on might be helpful for us to realize
what is our common ground here?

'bad people dont exist' is a big judgement call

if we are to get to the root of the issue we may need to dig into the question/statement

if we delve deep into this we might start out by asking
who we are
why we are
what existence itself is
 
sevenx said:
nope; he's running around...free...until trial.
He was charged with the wrong thing initially; apparently because it was saturday and the people who work on saturday don't know what to charge people with....and they changed it on monday but it was already too late...he bonded out with a 10,000 bond. (so 1k)

And yes; I get some satisfaction in knowing that something bad will probably happen to him in prison. I'm sure he will make some new friends.
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It will be interesting to see if he accepts a plea deal. Can you let us know?
 
Well we aren't offering too much; we have his dna on her panties; on the wipes from her; and his confession to the police. We are agreeable to 20yr plea; but much else is crap. We have a pre-trial thing on thurs and the jury trial is Monday; which will probably get continued because that's what always happens. :) Yes I will def be celebrating when he finally goes to jail.
 
sevenx said:
Well we aren't offering too much; we have his dna on her panties; on the wipes from her; and his confession to the police. We are agreeable to 20yr plea; but much else is crap. We have a pre-trial thing on thurs and the jury trial is Monday; which will probably get continued because that's what always happens. :) Yes I will def be celebrating when he finally goes to jail.
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That's great that she came to you right away. I know you probably know a lot of kids wouldn't have done that. If he tried to do any emotional grooming with her, it didn't work or your relationship with her was just too strong. I'm so sorry to hear this happened but I'm glad to hear that she came to you right away.
 
If so, then punishments in and of themselves are not evil either and hence are justifiable.
 
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