Building a wall.

acd said:
Just want to say that I agree with you here. There's little to add to this. It's puzzling just how little criticism is raised on how impractical it would be.
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It's a small price to pay for magnificence.
 
acd said:
You troll. ;-p
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You think so? I'm normally open to discussion, but a clear majority of left-wingers seem to think they're unquestionably right about it all. It's hard to take that seriously sometimes, so I decide to have some fun instead.
 
Elegant Winter said:
You think so? I'm normally open to discussion, but a clear majority of left-wingers seem to think they're unquestionably right about it all. It's hard to take that seriously sometimes, so I decide to have some fun instead.
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Exactly. Trollin'. (I know cuz i do it too on occasion.)
 
Eventhorizon said:
To start I believe that illegal aliens need to be kept out of the country but more than that, we need to know who is coming into our country unannounced for national security purposes. However, building a physical wall in my mind is ignorant and will create more problems than it is worth. I believe that a combination of enforcing laws already on the books along with an electronic wall made of sensors used in conjunction with physical detainment is the solution.

What say you?
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The fundamental reality is that there absolutely nothing wrong with 98% of the people crossing that border. They're good hard working people that are no different than our ancestors. They simply want an opportunity to work and create a better life for their family than they can at home. In fact not only are they causing no harm whatsoever they actually help improve our economy, by adding jobs and doing a lot of menial work most Americans don't want to do anyway for dirt cheap. If we made the process of obtaining work visas and temporary citizenship easier you would find that virtually every single person crossing that border illegally today would happily pass through a legal check point to be screened appropriately.

The remainder of the problem would easily be solved simply by legalizing Marijuana and potentially some of the other illegal drugs that are the main cause for bad guys to come here. If weed can be grown and sold legally here in the United States you eliminate any need for an illegal supply from Mexico. The legalization of drugs would virtually eliminate all mexican and South American drug cartels.

The implementation of these two things would completely eliminate any need for a wall or a border patrol of any kind. The reality is that if a Terrorist really wants to get into this country to do serious harm there's about a million other ways they can get in that would be easier than crossing the mexico border. Terrorists are generally well funded(also a result of illegal drug trade) they can have fake ids and fake passports made and enter the country in plain sight. Most of the 9/11 hijackers actually came to the country legally at first and then overstayed their visas. A wall can't fix that problem.

Anybody who seriously thinks a wall makes sense or would do any good has no fucking clue what they're talking about. I'm sorry. It would be a complete waste of time and money for no real gain. Build a higher wall, and they'll build a higher ladder. They'll tunnel under it, they'll take boats around it. It's just dumb.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Recent politics has seen the prop up of an unlikely canidate Trump due largely to what in my opinion is powered by some of his first comments regarding the building of a wall on the Mexican border to keep illegal aliens out.

This is a discussion about walls and the best way to implement change or, whether you feel as if illegal aliens should be monitored or controlled in any way.

To start I believe that illegal aliens need to be kept out of the country but more than that, we need to know who is coming into our country unannounced for national security purposes. However, building a physical wall in my mind is ignorant and will create more problems than it is worth. I believe that a combination of enforcing laws already on the books along with an electronic wall made of sensors used in conjunction with physical detainment is the solution.

So let the discussion begin. What say you?
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lol, whenever people say illegal aliens then I'm thinking UFO's and grey creatures with black eyes ;p The only ones who use this term for illegal immigrants are Americans in their own country, for non US countries these same Americans call them refugees :p

Anyway, I think that building a wall will not solve the problem, since the majority traverses river crossings and underground tunnels. A wall of any kind does not counter that.

If you want immigration to stop, you need to make your country the lesser attractive option by making policies that favor nationals that are bad off and completely ignore immigrants and setting a min. amount of years of living legally in a country for any rights to assistance projects. With discovery of illegal immigrants resulting in swift deportation and harsh punishments for those who broke laws that will give a person more than a few years in prison. Putting a stop to propaganda such as seen in every american movie that makes people think it's the best place ever to live will also add. But most of all, if you don't want to deal with these things, make another country between you and them the more attractive option for 'em.

It's a bit of a cold set of solutions, but perhaps befitting a conversation about possible solutions to such issues.

Elegant Winter said:
Also, since the Mexicans are paying for it, let's not skimp. I'm thinking, maybe, fifty feet high. What about you guys?
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That is still a bit un-impressive, one should go all out and build something for the ages if they take the effort. Might as well engrave the head of each US president on it. Lot's more space than a bunch of mountains that ran out of space for any more heads ;p
latest
 
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Artisan said:
That is still a bit un-impressive, one should go all out and build something for the ages if they take the effort. Might as well engrave the head of each US president on it. Lot's more space than a bunch of mountains that ran out of space for any more heads ;p
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140.webp
 
MrWonka said:
The fundamental reality is that there absolutely nothing wrong with 98% of the people crossing that border. They're good hard working people that are no different than our ancestors. They simply want an opportunity to work and create a better life for their family than they can at home. In fact not only are they causing no harm whatsoever they actually help improve our economy, by adding jobs and doing a lot of menial work most Americans don't want to do anyway for dirt cheap. If we made the process of obtaining work visas and temporary citizenship easier you would find that virtually every single person crossing that border illegally today would happily pass through a legal check point to be screened appropriately.

The remainder of the problem would easily be solved simply by legalizing Marijuana and potentially some of the other illegal drugs that are the main cause for bad guys to come here. If weed can be grown and sold legally here in the United States you eliminate any need for an illegal supply from Mexico. The legalization of drugs would virtually eliminate all mexican and South American drug cartels.

The implementation of these two things would completely eliminate any need for a wall or a border patrol of any kind. The reality is that if a Terrorist really wants to get into this country to do serious harm there's about a million other ways they can get in that would be easier than crossing the mexico border. Terrorists are generally well funded(also a result of illegal drug trade) they can have fake ids and fake passports made and enter the country in plain sight. Most of the 9/11 hijackers actually came to the country legally at first and then overstayed their visas. A wall can't fix that problem.

Anybody who seriously thinks a wall makes sense or would do any good has no fucking clue what they're talking about. I'm sorry. It would be a complete waste of time and money for no real gain. Build a higher wall, and they'll build a higher ladder. They'll tunnel under it, they'll take boats around it. It's just dumb.
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Agreed, the wall is pretty lame for contraband prevention. But visa enforcement would carries so much political capital in itself, and the flow-on effects to unemployment certainly would open the way to certain crowing rights.

Visa requirements/numbers are so easy to adjust, to strike the right balance of labor supply.

I presume the border control aspect is mostly rhetoric (it is in my dealing of the subject at least). A border wall is principally about the ability to tweak the labor market and salaries virtually at will imo. The effects on income tax reporting are there as well.
 
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America needs more archetecture for the tax payer to keep up, thats for sure. Make some jobs obama!
 
Being that I live in Arizona, I am in full support of a wall being built. However; this wall will really only help alleviate burdens from illegal immigrants in the southwestern states. At the same time, those who live elsewhere in the United States don't share the same issues that we do, and unfortunately most of them center around the children brought across the border. Maricopa County alone has now 18,000 kids in foster care (2nd position to Texas) and our schools do not receive proper funding to educate these kids. We don't know if they ever received a formal education, thus they take the standardized tests and fail ... which only leads the government to believe that our teachers are not doing their best. Arizona ranks among the worst states in regards to education (thank you ESOL students.) So ... funding is cut there. It is an issue that is severely out of control at the moment, and there is not an answer that will rectify all the problems.

The cartel still digs tunnels and uses drones now to drop drugs across the border ... but alleviating issues of stopping those "seeking for a better life" will enable the border control to put more manpower in our other problems.

It's very easy to sit back and make fun of the southern states who support this, but the domino effect of costly ramifications is something you won't see since it is a "state" issue.
 
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Sriracha said:
Being that I live in Arizona, I am in full support of a wall being built. However; this wall will really only help alleviate burdens from illegal immigrants in the southwestern states. At the same time, those who live elsewhere in the United States don't share the same issues that we do, and unfortunately most of them center around the children brought across the border. Maricopa County alone has now 18,000 kids in foster care (2nd position to Texas) and our schools do not receive proper funding to educate these kids. We don't know if they ever received a formal education, thus they take the standardized tests and fail ... which only leads the government to believe that our teachers are not doing their best. Arizona ranks among the worst states in regards to education (thank you ESOL students.) So ... funding is cut there. It is an issue that is severely out of control at the moment, and there is not an answer that will rectify all the problems.

The cartel still digs tunnels and uses drones now to drop drugs across the border ... but alleviating issues of stopping those "seeking for a better life" will enable the border control to put more manpower in our other problems.

It's very easy to sit back and make fun of the southern states who support this, but the domino effect of costly ramifications is something you won't see since it is a "state" issue.
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I do not know who would make fun on the situation. But a physical wall isnt the answer. Tunnels, bigger ladders etc... will make short work of it. It has to be monitored.
If we would just punish employers for hiring undocumented people that would probably be enough. No job..little reason to come here.
A wall needs to be in place but one that actually works. Besides its about more than undocumented workers. Its about national security and knowing who is in the country with what.
Nothing to make fun about.
 
MrWonka said:
The fundamental reality is that there absolutely nothing wrong with 98% of the people crossing that border. They're good hard working people that are no different than our ancestors. They simply want an opportunity to work and create a better life for their family than they can at home. In fact not only are they causing no harm whatsoever they actually help improve our economy, by adding jobs and doing a lot of menial work most Americans don't want to do anyway for dirt cheap. If we made the process of obtaining work visas and temporary citizenship easier you would find that virtually every single person crossing that border illegally today would happily pass through a legal check point to be screened appropriately.

The remainder of the problem would easily be solved simply by legalizing Marijuana and potentially some of the other illegal drugs that are the main cause for bad guys to come here. If weed can be grown and sold legally here in the United States you eliminate any need for an illegal supply from Mexico. The legalization of drugs would virtually eliminate all mexican and South American drug cartels.

The implementation of these two things would completely eliminate any need for a wall or a border patrol of any kind. The reality is that if a Terrorist really wants to get into this country to do serious harm there's about a million other ways they can get in that would be easier than crossing the mexico border. Terrorists are generally well funded(also a result of illegal drug trade) they can have fake ids and fake passports made and enter the country in plain sight. Most of the 9/11 hijackers actually came to the country legally at first and then overstayed their visas. A wall can't fix that problem.

Anybody who seriously thinks a wall makes sense or would do any good has no fucking clue what they're talking about. I'm sorry. It would be a complete waste of time and money for no real gain. Build a higher wall, and they'll build a higher ladder. They'll tunnel under it, they'll take boats around it. It's just dumb.
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We need to analyze your number... nothing wrong with 98%? Where is that number coming from? How do you know? Since we dont know who has crossed our boarder and its not like they take a quiz that asks them what their intention is...how exactly can you call it a fundamental reality?
 
Eventhorizon said:
We need to analyze your number... nothing wrong with 98%? Where is that number coming from? How do you know? Since we dont know who has crossed our boarder and its not like they take a quiz that asks them what their intention is...how exactly can you call it a fundamental reality?
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Here is just one good article on the subject.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...igrant-crime-san-francisco-shooting/30159479/

article said:
Using data from the 2010 Census, the report found that 1.6% of foreign-born males are in jail, compared with 3.3% of the native-born population. Researchers have long questioned the accuracy of Census data for prisoners, since the information they get from inmates is often incomplete, and immigrants could lie out of fear of being deported. But the authors found similar trends going back to 1980, so that helps bolster their case.
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The reality is that most illegal immigrants are actually better behaved than natives once they get to this country. The reason is likely because they are scared of deportation. It's like someone driving around knowing that they have a big bag of weed in their car. They're going to stick to the speed limit like glue because they're more afraid of getting pulled over. What might be a minor traffic violation to you or me, could result in their deportation so they are more highly motivated to avoid arousing the suspicion of the police.
 
Sriracha said:
which only leads the government to believe that our teachers are not doing their best. Arizona ranks among the worst states in regards to education (thank you ESOL students.) So ... funding is cut there.
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The problem here is not the influx of undocumented children it's the fact that funding gets cut based on the results of standardized testing. That is another bad idea forwarded by republicans under President Bush.
 
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