Bump stocks for guns

just me said:
No, most shooters get aired on live TV, cameras follow them everywhere they make a public appearance, they get interviewed, get evaluated, get fed, get clothed, get free room and board, free attorney, get to watch the people fight over what to do,
prison is a joke in the USA to them after watching people get cut loose, libraries, books, love and hate mail, they may even start writing a book, and the mess keeps going and going. Kill them like the roaches they are.

Man walks into a tent in Saudi Arabia where a man is selling jewelry, diamonds,. gold, and it's all right on tables.(This happened to a friend in the eighties). Some wealthy guy walks in and is shown a diamond necklace. He says he will buy it if the man has three, one for each wife. Owner leaves the tent unattended and rushes out the door to ask his brother if he has two like it. Friend finds himself standing alone by the tables. He looks around and asks what is happening. He is told nobody wants to be even be accused of stealing, as they will cut your hand off the first time.

I hate capital punishment, but cannot listen to all the madness on TV and will not read it on the internet. Capital punishment for killing our children like this? Yes. Swiftly. No TV. No pictures. Tell the news we do not tolerate this here any longer.
"The assailant, name withheld, is no longer with us." End of story.

Two most motivating things in the world for self-preservation and protection? Love, and fear of death. It has to be done. Otherwise, it will keep happening. Maybe we should open a hospital where people can commit suicide peacefully and alone?
Get rid of the games where they shoot people, too. What is wrong with all this?
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I'm not convinced that scrubbing the details of the person would deter people from engaging in mass killings with firearms. Additionally, can you imagine the outrage among people who are directly affected by a mass shooting when such information is witheld? Not only does that kind of censorship sound scary in its own right, but it also forbids the public and communities to examine factors that may have contributed to the assailant's break from sanity. I may be mistaken in this counter-assumption, but I do not think that anyone choosing to engage in such an act is fantasizing about getting to spend life in prison regardless of love letters and interviews, and I don't think that anyone who does this thinks that prison is a joke and that they'll get out.

Saudi Arabia may deter people from a lot of crimes, but do you want to live in a place where the very accusation of stealing can potentially lose you a hand? I understand that this was just an example but my point is that the more draconian you get the less different you are from countries you wouldn’t want to live in.
 
invisible said:
I don't know how to really describe to people in the US how your culture about guns looks from the outside. I guess the best way I can do it is through giving a sense of the emotional response from out here, the people I'm surrounded with and the kinds of conversations we have about the absolute disaster you have going on over there, and your total inability to make the slightest progress in addressing it.

Over recent years as mass shootings have become more frequent, the general feeling about this from outside the US has gone from outrage, to ridicule. We're laughing at you. Any other response would be futile.

I did a big project on this issue for a postgrad class I took on data visualisation. I took a lot of "quality of life" statistics and broke them down by US state. No surprises... population quality of living aspects like proportion of people below poverty level, healthcare access, and access to higher education were related to quantity of violent firearm fatalities. But I don't see you guys really working to change those things at all. You want your guns, and you want your market dictated social institutions like privatised prisons and hereditarily wealth restricted education... You do nothing, nothing about this problem... You just pretend over and over again that what happened was so unexpected and such a tragedy when really, you knew what was coming all along, and took no action to prevent it. What else can I do but laugh at you? It would be too depressing otherwise.
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You dont live in the US but you want to tell us how to live our lives. I wonder if you know just how much Americans care about what youve said here. Its important. You are important. Thank you ever so much for your thoughts.
 
Icedream said:
yeah, they'll find another way. Like stabbing or acid attacks.
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I don’t have a solution for what to do with all the multiplicity of the human condition. What I do know is that countries that enforce strict gun control, like Australia, have very low death rates as a result of mass shootings. Yes, someone can pull out a knife, but the number of casualties is much much smaller compared to what’s happening now with shootings. Even driving a car through a crowd doesn’t kill as many people.
 
Chickensoup said:
I don’t have a solution for what to do with all the multiplicity of the human condition. What I do know is that countries that enforce strict gun control, like Australia, have very low death rates as a result of mass shootings. Yes, someone can pull out a knife, but the number of casualties is much much smaller compared to what’s happening now with shootings. Even driving a car through a crowd doesn’t kill as many people.
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and acid attacks?
 
Sloe Djinn said:
I'm not convinced that scrubbing the details of the person would deter people from engaging in mass killings with firearms. Additionally, can you imagine the outrage among people who are directly affected by a mass shooting when such information is witheld? Not only does that kind of censorship sound scary in its own right, but it also forbids the public and communities to examine factors that may have contributed to the assailant's break from sanity. I may be mistaken in this counter-assumption, but I do not think that anyone choosing to engage in such an act is fantasizing about getting to spend life in prison regardless of love letters and interviews, and I don't think that anyone who does this thinks that prison is a joke and that they'll get out.

Saudi Arabia may deter people from a lot of crimes, but do you want to live in a place where the very accusation of stealing can potentially lose you a hand? I understand that this was just an example but my point is that the more draconian you get the less different you are from countries you wouldn’t want to live in.
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This country is fast approaching those ranks and files for me. I love it here, but cannot understand when a murderer has a rap sheet from three or more convictions. Crazies are avoided and criminals set free, but watch the political crazies around the country when those same people commit a crime....."again" doesn't matter to them. Set them free, watch them rape. Let the public get outraged. Sometimes it looks like they are letting them out to help with their political agenda. It is fast becoming a dogma. I never get accused of stealing, by the way. Don't know if that is still law there, but it definitely deters people. I don't want to see that, but killing children is different. They buried Bin Laden at sea without ceremony. People have forgotten.

I appreciate your caution in your being certain or not. Lots of folk don't show that.
 
Can we start with some of our leaders?
 
just me said:
Can we start with some of our leaders?
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We have a very serious problem when some can commit any crime they like and get away with if. Our entire justice system will break down when people start to ask "If they dont have to follow the law why should I"?
 
Icedream said:
Exactly. I believe that the crucial thing to look at right now, absolutely crucial, is the mental health of Americans.
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The term "mental health" is fast becoming part of the more highly acceptable "health" term. Mental means of the brain, but the brain is part of our body. Some people have problems. It used to be almost taboo to talk of someone's having a mental health issue. People used to be called stupid and retarded. People were called water heads. People in the school system with health issues were bullied and picked on. The health issue there was not those with problems of the mind. Those with the mind problems didn't cause the problems: it was the people that thrived on the primal desire to get rid of those that were not healthy.

People that cannot accept others with issues and shun or bully them are the problems. The PARENTS and the TEACHERS that watched this last person grow into a mass murderer should have said or done something years ago. Parents must accept responsibility of their children and how they are raised. However, this last shooter is being used as a political toy. Anyone can buy a gun on the street, so I hear. Last night there were three people killed by thugs at a local university that has cameras, security guards, lights, housing, and the likes. The guns used were most likely bought on the street from thieves. Changing the age for buying firearms will not STOP the problem. Getting rid of bump stocks will not stop the problem. Addressing some new mental health idea will not reach the thugs on the street. Boycotting the NRA is foolish at best. All that will do is make more people join them. If I had a child driving to college at age 18 out of town, they would have something to protect them. Criminals have guns, and so would my child. When the criminals can be regulated with gun control, come talk to me about this. Until then, everything people are wanting to do is MOOT. Think I'll go buy a machine gun and get a stamp with the ATF. I'll never go out killing people with it. Nobody can steal it from me. I'll protect myself and my property with it. Guess I'll need money first.
 
just me said:
This country is fast approaching those ranks and files for me. I love it here, but cannot understand when a murderer has a rap sheet from three or more convictions. Crazies are avoided and criminals set free, but watch the political crazies around the country when those same people commit a crime....."again" doesn't matter to them. Set them free, watch them rape. Let the public get outraged. Sometimes it looks like they are letting them out to help with their political agenda. It is fast becoming a dogma. I never get accused of stealing, by the way. Don't know if that is still law there, but it definitely deters people. I don't want to see that, but killing children is different. They buried Bin Laden at sea without ceremony. People have forgotten.

I appreciate your caution in your being certain or not. Lots of folk don't show that.
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I get that it that the rights of criminals seem to take precedent over the safety of society, but those rights are there to keep the government from excessive authoritarian abuses. We have been talked into this notion that without the viable threat of the militarization of the public the government will become a tyranny. But we have to balance the needs of public safety in with our right to defend ourselves. Yes the criminal justice system is fucked up in a lot of ways but it really is way more tilted toward incarcerating those without the money to legally defend themselves than it is toward allowing violent criminals go free. Now if you want to argue that in many many municipalities crimes go investigated due to a lack of resources, that is definitely true and perhaps is one of the best arguments for arming the populace. The thing is, these mass shootings rarely happen in the sparsely populated counties in America, they are happening to a large extent in the more densely populated regions.

Each locality should have the right to determine whether or not semi automatic weaponry can be taken outside of one's home in a condition that allows its immediate use. Each locality should have the right to limit the sale of said weapons and should be able to confiscate and prosecute those who flout their laws.


BTW The Navy claims that bin Laden was given a proper Muslim burial at sea, with a Imam et al. The US military is sensitive to the religious proscription of its enemies (maybe not at all times, but in situations like that it is)
 
Icedream said:
Exactly. I believe that the crucial thing to look at right now, absolutely crucial, is the mental health of Americans.
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You had best get a court order to look into the mental health of anyone. That information is private.
 
Stu said:
Each locality should have the right to determine whether or not semi automatic weaponry can be taken outside of one's home in a condition that allows its immediate use. Each locality should have the right to limit the sale of said weapons and should be able to confiscate and prosecute those who flout their laws.
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I must say I like ATF. The Class III weapons are regulated by them Federally. I totally disagree about semi-auto weapons. I was shooting a semi-automatic weapon when I was six with my Father in the woods hunting quail and such. Take your semi-auto weapon control elsewhere than with me. I think it foolish. I can place all the rounds from a revolver in the black and reload as fast as changing a magazine. Many people will agree with that. I'd rather take a .223 in the leg than a .44 Magnum any day.

If you cannot regulate everyone, don't try to regulate the honest law-abiding populace; and you cannot regulate everyone. Therefore, I will have what the law and the criminals have. Period. They will never, ever regulate everyone.

Yes, they did give him a proper burial. However, it was not televised. You are correct. Think of the repercussions of news media and a ground burial somewhere. They kept it out of the public's eye. My sentiments exactly.
 
I find it intereting that some here claim to care about the law while finding no issue with some who break the law. You simply cant have it both ways. Everyone follows the law or no one does.
The solution is not to keep law abiding citizens from protecting themselves. I think its reasonable to say they should not do so with explosives as the have a tendency to not be directed at a target in a controlled fashion. So the ban on grenades and such holds up, but when it comes to firearms? The 2nd Amendment is clear and direct. Any state that ignores any aspect of the Constitution needs to be treated as a hostile entity to the United States interests and anyone who supports or directions action that conflicts with the Constituion needs to be considerd and dealt with as a traitor and enemy of America.
 
And just to be clear, I’m not anti-gun ownership. If it were up to me, I’d require training, registration and a limit of two handguns/hunting rifles per person.

Icedream said:
and acid attacks?
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Similar. There are already bans on certain kinds of chemical agents to prevent large scale chemical warfare. Just as there are bans on certain kinds of vehicles. There are few bans in place for guns because of the lobbying efforts of the NRA.
 
Chickensoup said:
And just to be clear, I’m not anti-gun ownership. If it were up to me, I’d require training, registration and a limit of two handguns/hunting rifles per person.



Similar. There are already bans on certain kinds of chemical agents to prevent large scale chemical warfare. Just as there are bans on certain kinds of vehicles. There are few bans in place for guns because of the lobbying efforts of the NRA.
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Its a good thing its not up to you. And quite frankly, it never will be.
 
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