Can brutal honesty be cruelty
- Thread starter sookie
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I am not lying to them no, because in truth, there is no way to predict exactly when someone is going to die.
There is no way that side stepping is an issue because if they have been told by their Dr. then they understand that it's going to happen...
If they have not been disgnosed as being terminal by their Dr. then it is never at liberty for me to make that diagnosis for them. ( I think I understand what you are meaning now, lol).
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No. If someone is upset by what you say, you are not responsible for their feelings, they are responsible for their own feelings and how to control them.
Although, if you go around saying insulting things to people deliberately for no constructive reason, and you wonder why people are getting pissy at you, critcally analyze it.
This reminds me of a few threads on the INTJ forums that I have read in which someone was wondering why a person was being unruly towards them. As I read the thread, it was clear that this person offered insulting criticism rather than constructive, and expected the person to receive the insults in a complimentary way.
I know I've hurt people from brutal honesty in the past by intentionally doing it, and I know I've hurt people from honesty in the past without even knowing what I said was offensive until after it was said. So, there you go.
Naxx
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Brutal honesty can be cruel when it is used with the intentions of hurting the person. Truth can be use in a matter to shock and discourage others and also put the truth in a bad light for the person thus lower their willingness to see truth.
Truth and Lies can both be used as weapons of creation as well as destruction.
nicely put!
For myself, I usually don't tend to say things that I think and feel about others. Who others are really isn't my business to change them, unless it's some issue going on in my own home that could be destructive. Then I'll always go with saying my feelings on a matter and trying to help the other person understand and gain clarity and empathy.
If it's a concern for their being, I have my own ways of talking about truths by way of discussion about something rather than being really straightforward and risking hurting someone's feelings or having them shut down completely due to avoiding conflict. Imo, this helps others come to conclusions on their own, rather than it seeming like I am shoving my judgment down their throat as this only causes defensivness... I have learned this in my relationship with my partner in the past...
If it's a concern for their being, I have my own ways of talking about truths by way of discussion about something rather than being really straightforward and risking hurting someone's feelings or having them shut down completely due to avoiding conflict. Imo, this helps others come to conclusions on their own, rather than it seeming like I am shoving my judgment down their throat as this only causes defensivness... I have learned this in my relationship with my partner in the past...
Duty
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I'm going to have to go with the Buddhists on this one. I maintain, through lots of experience with deliberate, calculated, and rapid self-growth, that the very first thing that one must do in order to experience true self-growth, is recognize the world for what it truly is (at least how it is relevant for what specific habit/thought pattern you're trying to change).
Self-growth is uncomfortable...always. It is literally the brain's way of telling you, "I'm reorganizing my data" (like...physically telling you). It is a strain on your brain, so discomfort is experienced negatively.
This is why truth so often can seem "brutal" or "cruel" to people. Truth has a way of creating dissonance in our brain...and our brain can not tolerate dissonance. It has to either employ a defense mechanism to dismiss the new piece of information ("well, that person is just a janitor, what do they know?," "Pfft, of course that person is ahead of me in life, they were born with better circumstances!," "I failed because X, but I'll never do X because it just isn't 'me,'" and etc), or if not a defense mechanism, will have to experience the uncomfortable situation of discarding the old belief and accepting the new. Understandably, the discomfort is not admirable to our brains and so most people are resistant to change.
However, there are times that truth is so undeniable it forcefully makes us change our opinion. This is when truth seems brutal or cruel...because of the force involved.
It's uncomfortable for sure, and sometimes emotionally taxing (having to change the belief that you weren't adopted to being that you actually were adopted or something like that...ouch), but people only grow from it. They adapt to reality, as our brains are designed to do (seriously, the brain physically does two things: keeps the organism alive and changes to represent reality the best it possibly can).
I think that it is possible that true, long-term happiness is achieved when one is not resisting the brain's change. When one does not see it as discomfort, but instead embraces it is when one becomes "synchronized" with themselves. The brain adapts to change in the world. The world is always changing (and even leaving your apartment on a routine is a change in scenery: the brain adapts to that). So, the brain is going to change, even though most people are resistant to it.
Now that I'm on the thought, I'll elaborate that last paragraph with how to embrace this change. It's simpler then people may think: learn. I mean the kind of learning that makes you change your outlook on the world. Your outlook then informs your behaviors, and so your behavior changes too. Academic learning can stimulate this (cognitive science and psychology have stimulated a ton of this for me, but so have physics, astronomy, mathematics, philosophy, logic, history...the whole bit really), but it is not at all the only path. Just going and trying something new can provoke it.
Self-growth is uncomfortable...always. It is literally the brain's way of telling you, "I'm reorganizing my data" (like...physically telling you). It is a strain on your brain, so discomfort is experienced negatively.
This is why truth so often can seem "brutal" or "cruel" to people. Truth has a way of creating dissonance in our brain...and our brain can not tolerate dissonance. It has to either employ a defense mechanism to dismiss the new piece of information ("well, that person is just a janitor, what do they know?," "Pfft, of course that person is ahead of me in life, they were born with better circumstances!," "I failed because X, but I'll never do X because it just isn't 'me,'" and etc), or if not a defense mechanism, will have to experience the uncomfortable situation of discarding the old belief and accepting the new. Understandably, the discomfort is not admirable to our brains and so most people are resistant to change.
However, there are times that truth is so undeniable it forcefully makes us change our opinion. This is when truth seems brutal or cruel...because of the force involved.
It's uncomfortable for sure, and sometimes emotionally taxing (having to change the belief that you weren't adopted to being that you actually were adopted or something like that...ouch), but people only grow from it. They adapt to reality, as our brains are designed to do (seriously, the brain physically does two things: keeps the organism alive and changes to represent reality the best it possibly can).
I think that it is possible that true, long-term happiness is achieved when one is not resisting the brain's change. When one does not see it as discomfort, but instead embraces it is when one becomes "synchronized" with themselves. The brain adapts to change in the world. The world is always changing (and even leaving your apartment on a routine is a change in scenery: the brain adapts to that). So, the brain is going to change, even though most people are resistant to it.
Now that I'm on the thought, I'll elaborate that last paragraph with how to embrace this change. It's simpler then people may think: learn. I mean the kind of learning that makes you change your outlook on the world. Your outlook then informs your behaviors, and so your behavior changes too. Academic learning can stimulate this (cognitive science and psychology have stimulated a ton of this for me, but so have physics, astronomy, mathematics, philosophy, logic, history...the whole bit really), but it is not at all the only path. Just going and trying something new can provoke it.
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Grasshopper
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Someone close to me pointed out some things to me about myself. I thought it was really harsh. I got really mad at this person. It was a really hard pill to swallow. Then I realized they were right, and I started changing those things. One of these is feeling sorry for myself. Whether we want to admit it or not we all do this once in awhile. The reality is, if we all put our problems out on the table we would probably pick our own back up. I have learned gratitude, and as a result I don't throw pity parties for myself anymore. I am so glad that that person was that honest with me, that I was even hurt, because I never would have grown like I have since then. Mind you, I had to be in the right place to take it the way I did, a year ago it wouldn't have gone down so well!! So it's a risk to be honest with someone, because they may not be in the right place to hear what you have to say. I guess that is a risk im willing to take. I absolutely hated how blunt that person was, but now I'm getting a backbone because of it.
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Exactly.
Besides, the world around you at any given moment is full of infinite amount of truths, and you choose what to focus on. Whatever you say is never the complete truth, it is just part of it. If we could express the complete truth and to grasp it, we wouldn't communicate at all.
I believe brutally honest people (those who always have this image) are primarily led by the need to be brutal, than the need to be honest. They just use honesty as a mean to brutality. Sorry, that I have to say that. Then brutal honesty becomes a form of cruelty, yes.
I am very inconsiderate on many occasions, and then I feel very bad about it, but it's too late.
Solar Empath
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I'm going to throw this one in here and see what you all think.
What if you know someone is very depressed, and possibly suicidal. Do you tactfully tell them a 'truth', knowing it may push them over the edge, or do you lie?
If someone is looking to hurt someone you care about, do you 'tell the truth' if the first person asks you where the second person is?
Sorry, but sometimes telling the truth is not the right answer.
What if you know someone is very depressed, and possibly suicidal. Do you tactfully tell them a 'truth', knowing it may push them over the edge, or do you lie?
If someone is looking to hurt someone you care about, do you 'tell the truth' if the first person asks you where the second person is?
Sorry, but sometimes telling the truth is not the right answer.
Moxie
Absent-Minded Professor
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What an interesting question! I liked reading what other people wrote.
Personally, I suck with the whole honesty thing versus brutal honesty. My lil brother has the same problem. I am tactful about 80% of the time (my brother is tactful about 20% of the time), but still... things come out really badly sometimes, depending on my current level of stress.
I'm a 'just the facts ma'am' kind of person. When I'm in a state to tell the truth tactfully, I may answer the question, "Does this dress make my butt look big," by saying, "You look lovely in that color, but there might be more flattering dresses out there."
When I'm not in a state where I'm ready to be tactful (like if I'm hungry, have to go to the bathroom, PMS'ing, etc), I'm likely to say. "Yep. Time to put on a different one. Look, I have ten more right here - just try 'em on and let's go!"
I am always hoping this is something that people love about me more than hate.
On the bright side, I can tell if I've hurt someone's feelings, and then spend the next hour trying to make it right.
I think part of the problem is that I believe in being absolutely brutally honest with myself. "Yep, you're getting fat. When are you going to start that diet?" I think there's some corner of my brain thinks it must be ok to talk to other people the same way I talk to myself.
Personally, I suck with the whole honesty thing versus brutal honesty. My lil brother has the same problem. I am tactful about 80% of the time (my brother is tactful about 20% of the time), but still... things come out really badly sometimes, depending on my current level of stress.
I'm a 'just the facts ma'am' kind of person. When I'm in a state to tell the truth tactfully, I may answer the question, "Does this dress make my butt look big," by saying, "You look lovely in that color, but there might be more flattering dresses out there."
When I'm not in a state where I'm ready to be tactful (like if I'm hungry, have to go to the bathroom, PMS'ing, etc), I'm likely to say. "Yep. Time to put on a different one. Look, I have ten more right here - just try 'em on and let's go!"
I am always hoping this is something that people love about me more than hate.
On the bright side, I can tell if I've hurt someone's feelings, and then spend the next hour trying to make it right.
I think part of the problem is that I believe in being absolutely brutally honest with myself. "Yep, you're getting fat. When are you going to start that diet?" I think there's some corner of my brain thinks it must be ok to talk to other people the same way I talk to myself.
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sookie
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That certainly gives me pause....Great point..
Well, i think, sometimes we need to tell truth, if it is needed. we need to learn accept truth of our lives. Really, if anyone can't accept something that is true about them or anyone related to them, then it is their fault.
Yes, i know, this is very hard thing to accept. You can't neglect truth. It is meaningless to hide truth.
I guess, sometimes people call this harsh truth as brutal honesty. But it is not that brutal honesty, it is another form of truth and it is very hard to accept, we get hurt by it, because we are not prepared or learned how to take it.
Yes, i know, this is very hard thing to accept. You can't neglect truth. It is meaningless to hide truth.
I guess, sometimes people call this harsh truth as brutal honesty. But it is not that brutal honesty, it is another form of truth and it is very hard to accept, we get hurt by it, because we are not prepared or learned how to take it.
sookie
On Holiday
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I was thinking about this while I was driving. I think there are different types of honesty with varying amounts of how it is used to be able to function and what crosses the line depending on the type of honesty
Honesty about actions- I am unsure if we need to do this in society. This I dont think I lie about at all. If I do something I say that I do it.
Honesty about opinions or beliefs- This gets a little muddier. This makes me think if I had an opinion or a fact that is really more of an opinion...well I think this is more of what we are talking about here..
I can't think if there are any other types of honesty so to speak. Any thoughts...
Honesty about
Honesty about actions- I am unsure if we need to do this in society. This I dont think I lie about at all. If I do something I say that I do it.
Honesty about opinions or beliefs- This gets a little muddier. This makes me think if I had an opinion or a fact that is really more of an opinion...well I think this is more of what we are talking about here..
I can't think if there are any other types of honesty so to speak. Any thoughts...
Honesty about
Julia
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Brutal honesty can be a way to justify being cruel. It can be used to intentionally hurt someone and then be justified in the person's mind by saying, "I was only being honest". It can be pius meanness.
Honesty is typically a good thing especially because it provides credibility and can focus in on the actual issue at hand to get it solved more quickly. It's a good idea to be aligned with reality because it will win every time.
There are two important considerations relating to being honest with someone at the risk of their feelings. The first is to ask, "What will this accomplish?" "Is this nugget of truth going to make the person stronger or weaker?" "Why am I saying it?"
The second consideration is to ask if I, as the teller of truth, actually possesses that truth. Is it actually a fact you are conveying or opinion. So often it is opinion. Imposing personal opinion on others whether or not it hurts them is egocentric and quite often far from what is actually true.
Honesty is typically a good thing especially because it provides credibility and can focus in on the actual issue at hand to get it solved more quickly. It's a good idea to be aligned with reality because it will win every time.
There are two important considerations relating to being honest with someone at the risk of their feelings. The first is to ask, "What will this accomplish?" "Is this nugget of truth going to make the person stronger or weaker?" "Why am I saying it?"
The second consideration is to ask if I, as the teller of truth, actually possesses that truth. Is it actually a fact you are conveying or opinion. So often it is opinion. Imposing personal opinion on others whether or not it hurts them is egocentric and quite often far from what is actually true.
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I like how some people are able to be critical, without being cruel, and yet, without saving any part of the needed criticism.
INFJs are often masters in that. It's really admirable. And this is probably the most efficient way to help anyone else to grow.
INFJs are often masters in that. It's really admirable. And this is probably the most efficient way to help anyone else to grow.
I have been examining the term "Brutal Honesty" in my mind today thanks to this thread...
The thing that seems to continue to play in my head is that word "Brutal".
I have never known much good to come out of the term, so I am wondering if the word should be sentenced to just the truth, rather than in the delivery...
I have also been keeping in mind the fact that the 'truth' might not look the same to everyone, as often times as mentioned above, sometimes it is infact "opinions" and points of views that conflict, yet the truth is still in the outcome of events that we cannot control or manipulate.
The thing that seems to continue to play in my head is that word "Brutal".
I have never known much good to come out of the term, so I am wondering if the word should be sentenced to just the truth, rather than in the delivery...
I have also been keeping in mind the fact that the 'truth' might not look the same to everyone, as often times as mentioned above, sometimes it is infact "opinions" and points of views that conflict, yet the truth is still in the outcome of events that we cannot control or manipulate.
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Duty
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This is a false dichotomy, you have more choices in this situation.