Can brutal honesty be cruelty

Solar Empath said:
What if you know someone is very depressed, and possibly suicidal. Do you tactfully tell them a 'truth', knowing it may push them over the edge, or do you lie?
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Lying to people like that would only further perpetuate the self-destructive cycle that they're stuck in, and therefore would not be showing them love.
 
can brutal honesty become cruetly? of course. i would go so far as to say it can be even more cruel than a lie, because there's no going back on it.
 
Eric86 said:
Lying to people like that would only further perpetuate the self-destructive cycle that they're stuck in, and therefore would not be showing them love.
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Have you ever been in this situation? It would be so easy to throw someone over the edge. I think if it was someone that you cared about you would be more cautious. At least I hope you would be. Any mistakes you make would haunt you for the rest of your life.
 
Solar Empath said:
If you say so. I refuse to play debate when I have been in the first situation.
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Solar Empath- I have also been in the first situation. I understand.
 
Duty said:
This is a false dichotomy, you have more choices in this situation.
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Duty- I think that if you were actually in the situation and it was someone that you loved you might think about this in a different light
 
Solar Empath said:
I'm going to throw this one in here and see what you all think.

What if you know someone is very depressed, and possibly suicidal. Do you tactfully tell them a 'truth', knowing it may push them over the edge, or do you lie?
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This could play out many different ways in a specific context. I read an assumption here that a specific truth must be told at a specific time. If someone was especially vulnerable psychologically, I would focus on telling them the truths that make them feel stronger. The "truth" that would push them over the edge should probably wait until they are in a state of mind to be able to perceive what I am saying in a more balanced manner.

This does bring up an interesting aspect of this question. The teller of truth is only one side of the communication. The hearer of the "truth" can interpret it a thousand different ways. It makes sense to get a feel for their state of mind and their ability to understand what I am saying. If they are upset they might not hear my "truth", but instead an exaggeration or distortion of it. In that case have I even told the truth? Or have I told the exaggeration/distortion if I know that is how it will likely be heard?
 
Julia said:
This could play out many different ways in a specific context. I read an assumption here that a specific truth must be told at a specific time. If someone was especially vulnerable psychologically, I would focus on telling them the truths that make them feel stronger. The "truth" that would push them over the edge should probably wait until they are in a state of mind to be able to perceive what I am saying in a more balanced manner.

This does bring up an interesting aspect of this question. The teller of truth is only one side of the communication. The hearer of the "truth" can interpret it a thousand different ways. It makes sense to get a feel for their state of mind and their ability to understand what I am saying. If they are upset they might not hear my "truth", but instead an exaggeration or distortion of it. In that case have I even told the truth? Or have I told the exaggeration/distortion if I know that is how it will likely be heard?
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This is a pretty good take of the situation I have been in generic'd. Add now them asking you a specific question that only has two answers and you can see the dilemma.
 
Solar Empath said:
Forget it. I don't gamble with people's lives just to preserve my self image.
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Who ever said anything about self-image? I certainly did not. To think that I would only tell the truth simply to make myself look better to others is an extremely shallow and insulting thing to accuse me of. I do not consider it a game, and I take it very seriously. My ego is not so big that I would stoop to such selfish behavior by injudiciously throwing around truth to make myself look righteous.

Lying to people like that would never get them to progress--if anything it would likely make things worse and allow them to be more accepting of their behavior and mindset, and they would not be able to see that damage that it causes them--and stagnation may as well be death in itself. Living a defeated life is no life at all, and I will have no part in enabling anyone to do so. I should hope that you would not do that.
sookie said:
Have you ever been in this situation? It would be so easy to throw someone over the edge. I think if it was someone that you cared about you would be more cautious. At least I hope you would be. Any mistakes you make would haunt you for the rest of your life.
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Yes, actually. I've been in it for the past several months with my girlfriend, who has been very depressed, self-destructive, and suicidal for years. I always tell her the truth about everything, and she has gradually been improving. Obviously I'm not cruel about it, but I don't sugarcoat the truth either; I do not tell her the truth in a way that puts her down, but rather in a supportive way that allows her to see what needs to be done in order for positive change to happen in her life.

If you tell the truth in a loving way, then any negative repercussions would be the fault of the person who heard it. If the truth is told in an insulting and/or provocative manner, then obviously you would have some degree of responsibility for what happens, both in a moral and legal sense.
 
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I am not trying to insult anyone, but I am getting upset myself. I think we are coming at this from completely different life experiences. I am not talking about when things are great between you and someone else. I am talking about the times when they have seriously done something wrong to you. The crazy times.

Imagine, let's say, finding out that your girlfriend cheated on you. You still care maybe, but you are hurt badly. She's in that place you know she goes when she is seriously thinking about whether she can go on.

And here she is. You can't forgive her yet. Maybe not ever. But she is asking you: "Can you possibly forgive me?"

So now your choice is tell her exactly how you feel and maybe become that final straw, or suck it up and lie.

Choose.
 
There is nothing that I would be unable to forgive, so that scenario is irrelevant to me.
 
If that is true than I think that you are going to get very, very hurt. Sometimes you need to walk away to protect yourself.
 
Solar Empath, I didn't understand what you were talking about before, but a lightbulb went on when I was driving.

As TDHT said, there are levels of truth, and there are also levels of people's emotional fabric.

Trust your gut, and pick your battles.

"Will I ever forgive you? I don't know what I'm feeling. But I do know this: you are a special person who will always hold a precious place in my heart. "

And I tend to think of myself as very honest, but from the posts here, I realized that's not true. I do lie. When someone asks me how I'm doing, and I'm not doing well, I say something that misidrects, like, "Who could be happy with this freakin' weather? The traffic today was terrible!" Or, when someone's having a hard day, and is just complaining on and on, but is not ready for advice because they really just need to rant, and says something like , "Can you believe she said that?" I don't say, "OMG, you need to figure out that somethings aren't worth worrying about and quit taking every little thing to heart!" I say instead something like, "People are so unpredictable, aren't they?"

So, yeah. Although I try to be honest, I do lie too. Not outright, but indirectly, and much more often than I ever realized.

I feel for all of you that are in this situation.
 
sookie said:
If that is true than I think that you are going to get very, very hurt. Sometimes you need to walk away to protect yourself.
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What exactly are you referring to?
 
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When you say that you will forgive anything. Sometimes you need to walk away. Sometimes people dont have someone elses best interest at heart.
 
I know that, but I don't see why that should keep me from being able to forgive others. Just because I forgive them doesn't mean that I'm going to put myself in a situation where I'm going to be taken advantage of or used as a doormat.
 
You raise a good point. My father has been out of my life for 10 years. I forgive him. I would not let him back. I think sometimes I see not forgiving someone as a way to have boundaries so that I can protect myself.
 
Eric86 said:
I know that, but I don't see why that should keep me from being able to forgive others. Just because I forgive them doesn't mean that I'm going to put myself in a situation where I'm going to be taken advantage of or used as a doormat.
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I Like you Eric. I read and posted in your GF thread, so I know at least a little of where you are coming from. You are a good person. And 99.9% of the time I agree with you.

I will never forgive the guy who molested a family member of mine (and his) when that person was 6 years old.
I have 4 other people on a list related to my small group of friends and family that fit the same level as the above.

Most of the time I agree with you. Some times, I don't. Some times the ability to forgive is a luxury.

I feel the same way about truth. 99.9% of the time it's the morally right choice. But some times it too is impossible or a luxury. Some times you have to choose between two very bad things.
 
I'm dealing with this issue more and more lately, hoping others will chime in on this one.

I can tell I feel defensive about speaking my truth right now, I mean why shouldn't I be allowed to voice my opinions about what's going on around me? It might hurt others but, in the spirit of honesty I don't really care. I feel like I put upwithalotofbullshit when it comes to other people and I don't want to. Furthermore I feel like if I don't say anything the situation won't change. Maybe what I'm saying is coming from a place of anger, but I'm not kidding myself about having the best intentions at heart when I tell them my interpretation of what's going on either.

With that said I'm afraid a lot lately, afraid of losing my job or a place to stay. It feels like theres a lot of pressure to not rock the boat in these situations and i dont know what to expect.

Some of this might sound harsh but its the truth of how i feel. I dont go out trying to find people to hurt, but im sick of biting my tongue when id rather speak my mind.
 
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