Comfortable sadness...

Restraint said:
Nope. We don't own it NOT because we aren't perfect but because we think we're not good enough. As NAI said, it's about affirming what's already there, rather than what we think isn't there.
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But how do we make ourselves see it...If its already there how come I dont know about it...

Imma have to stew about this affirmation thing...its obviously a huge problem for me to admit something good about myself...Anything at all...Everything I posted in the Hotness thread should have a damn question mark behind it for all I believe in what I posted.
 
May said:
its weird to praise yourself, because others might not see you in that way, theres a chance of looking arrogant

affirming others is probably easier because ..... you know others less than you know yourself and therefore can focus on only their good sides? *shrugs*
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Praising others can also be seen as paying some imaginary debt. Something like there are expectations of you to fix the lives of others.

Now there is nothing wrong with complimenting others, it is part of social interaction and it helps to strengthen social bonds. However, sometimes I find that I would try to fix others or bend over backwards because I either wanted to ignore my own problems or thought that I was repaying that insatiable debt. Typically it was both. I was also seeking a repayment of validation, hoping someone could ride in and fix the problems that no one else could even comprehend or see.
 
Entyqua said:
But how do we make ourselves see it...If its already there how come I dont know about it...

Imma have to stew about this affirmation thing...its obviously a huge problem for me to admit something good about myself...Anything at all...Everything I posted in the Hotness thread should have a damn question mark behind it for all I believe in what I posted.
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imo you're not going to believe you're great, wonderful, etc. just by saying it, you actually have to see it directly, or have someone else or your own experience confirm it. otherwise you're basically lying to yourself, and if you can lie about that, why not everything about your life? :/
 
Entyqua said:
But how do we make ourselves see it...If its already there how come I dont know about it...

Imma have to stew about this affirmation thing...its obviously a huge problem for me to admit something good about myself...Anything at all...Everything I posted in the Hotness thread should have a damn question mark behind it for all I believe in what I posted.
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I think a lot of it has to do with just realizing repeatedly that you aren't obligated to respond in any certain way to anything. Just because someone expects you to act a certain way doesn't mean you have to do that. You would be amazed how much your ordinary behavior is influenced by that.

I was occasionally doing things that I didn't want to do because I felt that I was obligated to meet the expectations of every... single... person...

Dismissing the expectations of others is a good start. Of course, you still have to understand cause and effect, and it is useful not to burn bridges. I have actually found that establishing my boundaries and own intrinsic value actually gains me MUCH more respect.

When you value yourself you will find that others pick up on that and tend to value you much more too. The only time arrogance enters into the picture is when you take intelligence and scope out of the equation.
 
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May said:
imo you're not going to believe you're great, wonderful, etc. just by saying it, you actually have to see it directly, or have someone else or your own experience confirm it. otherwise you're basically lying to yourself, and if you can lie about that, why not everything about your life? :/
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That still applies social context. Your own sense of self-worth is subjective and cannot be quantified by anyone but you. If you value yourself, then you do.

You may value yourself one day more than another, but that doesn't mean you were ever lying.
 
So your saying remove the social aspect out of all of this and just look at yourself?
 
NeverAmI said:
That still applies social context. Your own sense of self-worth is subjective and cannot be quantified by anyone but you. If you value yourself, then you do.

You may value yourself one day more than another, but that doesn't mean you were ever lying.
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yeah but that's what I mean, to YOU, according to your own standards, you'd be lying if on one day, you told yourself you were great, when to YOU on that particular day, all evidence pointed to the contrary. it would still be context dependent, but your opinion would be graded against your own personal standards, and therefore your conclusion would be a lie to YOU. maybe not to anyone else though, as their standards would be different. (does that make sense?)
 
Entyqua said:
So your saying remove the social aspect out of all of this and just look at yourself?
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Yea, not necessarily to ignore social aspects, but to realize there IS a you outside of all that. The opinions of others do not make you.

Regardless of all the bullshit you have experienced in your life, there is a you. You have existed beyond all of that. It is not you, you are not it. You exist; so start existing.

:)
 
NeverAmI said:
Yea, not necessarily to ignore social aspects, but to realize there IS a you outside of all that. The opinions of others do not make you.

Regardless of all the bullshit you have experienced in your life, there is a you. You have existed beyond all of that. It is not you, you are not it. You exist; so start existing.

:)
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So essentially, I am not my past, but I have one...I can decide to live with it, by it or through it...I feel I am starting to move forward here...I see some things about myself that have been defined by my past...I know some of my extreme OCD issues stem from certain abuses...So let me put it in these terms...

As a child I had to do all the house work from the time I could see the sink...I was about 8 when i started. I am going to focus only on one chore, Dishes.

I had to do the dishes every day...I had to wash dry and put away. If there was one speck on any dish, My parents would clean out every dish in the kitchen for me to wash again...This was even worse when we got a dishwasher...To this day I HATE doing dishes, but I do them because no one does them right...I cant stand spots on the dishes, or little grease marks...It drives me batty...but I try to stand back and not let it bug me...but it does BAD...To the point where I am the only one doing dishes most of the time, because I have taken it on myself to do so.

In this case, I am defined by this...How do I not be?
 
Entyqua said:
So essentially, I am not my past, but I have one...I can decide to live with it, by it or through it...I feel I am starting to move forward here...I see some things about myself that have been defined by my past...I know some of my extreme OCD issues stem from certain abuses...So let me put it in these terms...

As a child I had to do all the house work from the time I could see the sink...I was about 8 when i started. I am going to focus only on one chore, Dishes.

I had to do the dishes every day...I had to wash dry and put away. If there was one speck on any dish, My parents would clean out every dish in the kitchen for me to wash again...This was even worse when we got a dishwasher...To this day I HATE doing dishes, but I do them because no one does them right...I cant stand spots on the dishes, or little grease marks...It drives me batty...but I try to stand back and not let it bug me...but it does BAD...To the point where I am the only one doing dishes most of the time, because I have taken it on myself to do so.

In this case, I am defined by this...How do I not be?
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repeatedly eat off dirty plates? lol.. undo bad conditioning with reverse conditioning, that's what they do with social phobics, exposing them to people again and again to override their memories of fearing people
 
Entyqua said:
So essentially, I am not my past, but I have one...I can decide to live with it, by it or through it...I feel I am starting to move forward here...I see some things about myself that have been defined by my past...I know some of my extreme OCD issues stem from certain abuses...So let me put it in these terms...

As a child I had to do all the house work from the time I could see the sink...I was about 8 when i started. I am going to focus only on one chore, Dishes.

I had to do the dishes every day...I had to wash dry and put away. If there was one speck on any dish, My parents would clean out every dish in the kitchen for me to wash again...This was even worse when we got a dishwasher...To this day I HATE doing dishes, but I do them because no one does them right...I cant stand spots on the dishes, or little grease marks...It drives me batty...but I try to stand back and not let it bug me...but it does BAD...To the point where I am the only one doing dishes most of the time, because I have taken it on myself to do so.

In this case, I am defined by this...How do I not be?
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Well, first of all that would be HORRIBLE to endure.

As for the behavioral pattern specified, I don't know a solution to it. That doesn't define you, it is just a quirk. People chewing with their mouth open or smacking their lips drives me bonkers, my parents always enforced that heavily.

If there is a solution, I guarantee it is something other than realizing that dishes don't have to be 100% clean and perfect.

Maybe once you go easier on yourself you will go easier on others.
 
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NeverAmI said:
Well, first of all that would be HORRIBLE to endure.

As for the behavioral pattern specified, I don't know a solution to it. That doesn't define you, it is just a quirk. People chewing with their mouth open or smacking their lips drives me bonkers, my parents always enforced that heavily.

If there is a solution, I guarantee it is something other than realizing that dishes don't have to be 100% clean and perfect.

Maybe once you go easier on yourself you will go easier on others.
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So they dont define me? I guess I dont understand how to define me then...I have always felt defined...labeled

Abused child
Broken spirit
worthless...

So these are labels...but I shouldn't be defined by them...

Ok so these are reasons why I am the way I am, they are a part of me, but I need to learn how to say...This happened, So what?...I mean I try to do that...downplay the most horrific parts...but...Its not a small thing. I am talking myself into a circle...
 
doing the dishes for you now is creating a save zone. It is save to do the dishes perfectly and it is not save if they are not perfect. You know that if you do the dishes perfectly you will not be in trouble. I don't know, you can start with not doing them perfectly one time and wait and see what happens. And nothing will happen because nobody in your house now will even notice that they are not perfect. And by time I'll feel more and more save to do it your own way.:shocked:

my mother never forced me to do the dishes but she expected it from me to help her in silence and she suffert in silence when I didn't help her. I almost never offered to help her because I hate doing the dishes. And I still veel guilty about it as if I haven't been the perfect daughter :shocked:

I have never been that abused. But the constant comment that I didn't do it right makes me now not care at all :becky:. I don't care about the dishes, cleaning the house or the garbage. I do it when it really really is time to do so. It is a rebelious action against the voices in my head that say I should do it. I think I will continue on this path untill I don't hear the voices anymore and am free to do it my way :becky:

NAI said:
Because your personal validation was repeatedly denied over a long period of time. It is a fear mechanism because whenever you would exercise independence it was most likely met with negative responses. Not 100% on that but one way of looking at it.
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This is really a good one! It certainly is the reason for me why I question myself. Every time I made a decision by myself, my father questioned it and had a better way to do it and enforced in on me. Like when I was in highschool and made an arangement with a friend to come over to play at 2pm. He said that 2pm was to late and I should call her again and tell her to come at 1pm. I couldn't make any arangement with anyone without him making chances to improve it. Telling me what I can do better is his way to help me to become a better person but it is not helpful at all! That makes me feal like I can never do anything right.

It is quiet recently that I started to stand by my decision and that made a big impact because he actually is accepting it. He never tells me I made the right decision or did something good but the lack of negative comment proves I did good :shocked:. I always have to fight for my thoughts while there is always a voice in my head: "what if you are wrong? you should listen to others". But it is nothing compared to you and I feel such a foul to be bothered by this
 
Entyqua said:
So essentially, I am not my past, but I have one...I can decide to live with it, by it or through it...I feel I am starting to move forward here...I see some things about myself that have been defined by my past...I know some of my extreme OCD issues stem from certain abuses...So let me put it in these terms...

As a child I had to do all the house work from the time I could see the sink...I was about 8 when i started. I am going to focus only on one chore, Dishes.

I had to do the dishes every day...I had to wash dry and put away. If there was one speck on any dish, My parents would clean out every dish in the kitchen for me to wash again...This was even worse when we got a dishwasher...To this day I HATE doing dishes, but I do them because no one does them right...I cant stand spots on the dishes, or little grease marks...It drives me batty...but I try to stand back and not let it bug me...but it does BAD...To the point where I am the only one doing dishes most of the time, because I have taken it on myself to do so.

In this case, I am defined by this...How do I not be?
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Enty, I've been reading all this and trying to sort of soak it in... not easy!

Listen, have you ever tried (please don't laugh!) self-hypnosis tapes? I know it sounds a little overly-simplistic, but if you have a good imagination and can visualize things well, you can put those experiences in balloons and let them fly away -- these techniques can really help you relax and move past experiences you don't want to re-live. I can look up some links if you are interested.

It helps.

Also, you would not parent a child the way you were parented.

You can feel the love you have for your daughter and expand it to yourself. You can love and nurture the little girl you were.
 
Janet said:
Enty, I've been reading all this and trying to sort of soak it in... not easy!

Listen, have you ever tried (please don't laugh!) self-hypnosis tapes? I know it sounds a little overly-simplistic, but if you have a good imagination and can visualize things well, you can put those experiences in balloons and let them fly away -- these techniques can really help you relax and move past experiences you don't want to re-live. I can look up some links if you are interested.

It helps.

Also, you would not parent a child the way you were parented.

You can feel the love you have for your daughter and expand it to yourself. You can love and nurture the little girl you were.
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Awe Janet...you made me cry...Not in a bad way...just WOW...Thank you...

I have an imagination to rival any imagination...I am curious, if youve got some links I will take a look.
 
Entyqua said:
Awe Janet...you made me cry...Not in a bad way...just WOW...Thank you...

I have an imagination to rival any imagination...I am curious, if youve got some links I will take a look.
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Hey!! Okay, I will (I had to go away for a while, just got back...)

Let me poke around and see what links I come up with. These kinds of self-hypnosos/guided meditation tapes have helped me so much. I've forgotten the exact names, though.

This is the sort of thing that ought to work so well for you since you do have a good imagination.

Also, the hypnosis helps you detach from your emotions and your memories. Don't you think sometimes we think that "I AM sad" "I AM anxious" "I AM happy"?

And that's really a misnomer, because we are not our emotions. You feel your emotions, they come and go, but you are something else. (Don't ask me what you are, that is a question for the philosophers. But you're not your emotions or your memories, so it is okay to let them go.)

It was really hard for me to learn this (and I am still learning) but it makes it easier to let feelings and memories that are harming you go -- just disappear -- when you realize that you are not your emotions. That's where hypnosis helps; it allows you to detach.
 
Here's a general link covering hypnotherapy:
http://www.natboard.com/index_files/Page476.htm

Now, the CDs you listen to yourself are not quite the same as seeing a hypnotherapist but they can really help.

I've got a few that I like, but the only one I can remember at the moment is called Just Relax -- this CD knocks me out cold every time.
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Just-Relax-Relaxing-meditation-relaxation/dp/B000GBE6GW"]Amazon.com: Just Relax - Relaxing to Sleep CD: Guided meditation for sleep; sound therapy for relaxation and healing; stress relief music track (Digi): Gail Seymour (spoken word); Glen Joy (music): Music[/ame]

These pages have a variey of CDs that look as if they might be helpful:
http://www.isabellacatalog.com/c/Guided-Imagery.cfm?tid=705072002

http://www.potentialsunlimited.com/subliminal-products.cfm?id=46&resellerid=19

Also, you may be interested in reading some of the work of Milton Erickson -- specifically "My Voice Will Go With You" He's a well-known hypnotherapist.

I really hope at the very least you find this interesting. FWIW, you can use these techniques to releive physical or emotional pain quite effectively.


(((((hugs)))))
Janet
 
Entyqua said:
So they dont define me? I guess I dont understand how to define me then...I have always felt defined...labeled

Abused child
Broken spirit
worthless...

So these are labels...but I shouldn't be defined by them...

Ok so these are reasons why I am the way I am, they are a part of me, but I need to learn how to say...This happened, So what?...I mean I try to do that...downplay the most horrific parts...but...Its not a small thing. I am talking myself into a circle...
Click to expand...

The human species is dynamic. This is one trait that has helped us to survive for so long. We endure, we adapt, we learn, we grow; these are all things that have definitions, but they are only processes. We meet circumstance and we adapt to endure however we have learned how. We grow when we learn that we are not limited to those prior lessons and we endure those faults but adapt in order to progress.

It is ok to learn again, to understand that you make mistakes, but moreover, that others make mistakes, and often. Perfection is subjective and is a definition of some temporary ideal or concept. You aren't perfect, I am not perfect; we don't need to be, we never will be, but we must move forward.

All humans are flawed, but we exist. That is our definition.
 
They say what doesn't kill ya makes you stronger(not how I would say it at all).

Sorrow is better than laughter; for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made stronger.

If dogs could only talk. We are not alone on this planet when gathering sorrow reward points. We can speak, but others can feel also. We all know this, so I am not uttering something new.

As for sorrow, I have a chair nailed in its proper place at my table no others are allowed to sit in. I have learned to respect the strength it has given me. I have learned to sit quietly and listen to it. I also have learned when walking away from the table is a necessity. As is with most things, I like my sorrow in moderation. Joy seems to be in moderation, also, by its own choosing. I have to give place to seriousness, and it may well be the meat of my table. My sorrow can partake of it if need be, as with my joy. I do like to smile and laugh just as much as others,
but "I'm no stranger to the rain".

Given a choice, I would much rather be doing something enjoyable with a friend or family; a pet, even. I know not spending time with a pet can bring sorrow to the pet as much as with myself. Good subject, btw.
 
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