Conversations with the devoutly religious

I'm glad I live in a country where these people are so rare I thought they were a myth before the internet.
 
Lerxst said:
Is it possible to actually have a normal one?

By devoutly, I mean, the types that spend an entire day in Bible study, name their kids after Biblical figures and just ooze "God" out of every pore of their body. Ever try having a conversation with one of these people? I have to admit, it gets me irritated.

Me - How's the weather?
Them - God blessed us with a beautiful day.

Me - Do you want to...?
Them - If God sees fit to allow me...

Me - What do you think of...?
Them - Well, the Bible says we should...​

Independent thought goes out the window and critical thinking is a foreign concept. It probably gets me more irritated by the fact that the words coming out of their mouth are utterly meaningless. It's like writing a term paper in school that consists of nothing but paraphrases and references to other's works.

I'm not trying to bash religions or the people in them. I grew up in a Catholic family going to Sunday school, but even the priests and nuns I would speak to were rather "normal" people to have conversations with; like they grasped the concept of what it meant to be a human being in a world full of human beings.

The "born again" types in some of the "fringe" (as I call them) religions just seem to act like creepy zombies a lot of time and it gets unnerving for me to be around them. Some of them would say that being that "close to God" at first does that to people. I haven't had the heart to tell them that it's not God that makes my spine crawl.
Click to expand...

I totally get that, but a lot of the creepy zombies are just extremely unhappy people who are trying to fill a gap. I feel uncomfortable around them to but it's best to just be polite and move on. Most religious people aren't like this and the most intelligent religious people, in my experience, believe that "it is not for us to question why" is the opposite of religion.
 
I used to be a devout Christian, so I can understand where they're coming from. I think our ideologies towards life is fed to us at a young age and deviating from them takes a lot of effort. Our course in life seems to be guided by chance occurrences and events that will modify our perceptions. Our individual psyche probably has a lot to do with our decision making as well. If certain events didn't happen in my life and if I processed information differently, then I'm sure I would have been a minister by this point. But instead, I'm agnostic.

We should never judge each other for the way we interpret reality. We're not all given the same opportunities so it's important to try and view life through the eyes of others before we dish out hostility.
 
Well, like they say; "Whatever you are, be a good one."

Hey, at least they are committed to it, (at least the ones who are sincere, not the ones who just do it for show.) If they truly want to do that, and are dedicated, then I can do nothing but wish them luck and wave.
 
I didn't think of it at the time, but my thread here mentions one such person:

"We cannot elevate nature above people," explained Edna Mattos, 63, leader of the Citrus County Tea Party Patriots, in an interview. "That's against the Bible and the Bill of Rights."

A person willing to bring religion into a topic like this, despite the slap in the face to science is simply unreasonable, even ignoring her political affiliation. Yet here she is, dragging us "normal" people into a religious debate with her since her answer lies in "The Bible says it's so.".
 
I takes two to debate
 
Lerxst said:
Yet here she is, dragging us "normal" people into a religious debate with her since her answer lies in "The Bible says it's so.".
Click to expand...
I'm sure it represents a point of reference for her personally (no problem), but in a pluralistic society such as ours it means little. Probably all that is intended with a quote like this is to elicit knee-jerk support (based on a Bible reference) from among supporters, a manipulation which is one of my biggest peeves about politicians (now and in times past). The debate in question probably can be (and has been) addressed in more honest "Biblical" terms, and it likely would have been an insightful, well-rounded, and nuanced discussion, the implications of which probably would not so fully support her immediate position. That should matter in public discourse, but alas, 'tis not always so.
 
VH said:
You can have a conversation with the devoutly religious, but it takes a while to get past the filter and disarm them of their defense mechanisms that keep them clinging to religion for safety.

This is one of the many reasons I teach at conferences on the importance of being real no matter how you are, having a spiritual relationship with God, and not being religious.
Click to expand...

What kind of conferences?
 
It's interesting that people find someone who is devoutly religious annoying but yet I've rarely had an logical, reasonable conversation with someone who thinks that being non-religious makes them smarter, more logical, and reasonable than those who are. Now, that's annoying.

Fact is anyone can be annoying if they take something to it's extreme. The person who happens to be agnostic or atheist who believes they are naturally more intelligent or more enlightened because they don't believe in God or any deity is just as annoying or as arrogant as the overzealous religious person with whom you can't have a normal conversation.

And don't forget that we are often so biased that someone's simple statement of a belief in something will cause someone to judge you as overzealous or devoutly religious. People are never truly fair in their assessments, except when it conveniently supports their feelings or philosophies.
 
This thread seems to have turned into a troll barnabas thread.
 
It's interesting that people find someone who is devoutly religious annoying but yet I've rarely had an logical, reasonable conversation with someone who thinks that being non-religious makes them smarter, more logical, and reasonable than those who are. Now, that's annoying.

Fact is anyone can be annoying if they take something to it's extreme. The person who happens to be agnostic or atheist who believes they are naturally more intelligent or more enlightened because they don't believe in God or any deity is just as annoying or as arrogant as the overzealous religious person with whom you can't have a normal conversation.

And don't forget that we are often so biased that someone's simple statement of a belief in something will cause someone to judge you as overzealous or devoutly religious. People are never truly fair in their assessments, except when it conveniently supports their feelings or philosophies.
Click to expand...

[MENTION=1669]Rite[/MENTION] - Oh so right!
 
It's simply a cultural difference, and you feel uncomfortable with them because they are different from you. It's all perfectly normal. They are normal when they talk that way. You are normal when it makes you uncomfortable.
 
I think it might be a good overall policy to "support the good" when if comes to the devoutly religious. In other words, encourage people's engagement in their religion at the deepest levels possible. Encourage them to inquire into the dynamics around certain issues, social or otherwise. Ask them to have meaningful dialogue with others in their community about issues. Ask them to learn more about their community's pastoral approach in different areas. Why? Because I guarantee you the less knowledgable will (or be led to) gravitate towards black and white, polarized perspectives while at the same time, within almost every religion, there are more complex, nuanced, deeply understanding voices that will really help people both connect more fully to their religious traditions (not the cartoon/caricature version, but the full, rich, and expansive version) and broaden their horizons through more, deeper integrated knowledge. Religious systems can be your best friend in promoting tolerance and understanding even if agreement is not fully possible. By encouraging the devoutly religious to engage more fully with the trusted "voices of reason" in their own communities, one stands the best chance of affecting permanent interior change through deeper spiritual awareness and conversion of life. Such things are the generally the unseen pillars of religious systems...they are there and they are strong. They are also great pointers in that they simply do not go away and will always win the day for those who are truly devout.
 
Seraphim said:
Even though I live in the Bible Belt, I don't meet very many people like that. But last summer, one day I was in the fabrics section of Hobby Lobby when a woman, a young girl (both with long hair, wearing handsewn dresses), and 3 toddlers/babies approached me. I happened to be wearing a long skirt that day, and I have extremely long hair. The woman asked me if I could point them to any churches in the area. I was caught off guard, and I didn't realize right away that they had assumed I was of the same denomination as them (though I'm not sure exactly what that would be).

The mother left after a couple of minutes, but the girl with a baby on her hip stayed, and the toddlers stayed with her. She looked like a teenager, possibly a younger looking 20 year old. I wondered if any of those babies were hers. She talked to me until they left, saying that she loved God so much and she was so glad to have met me because I seemed like such a nice person. From the childlike way she spoke, at first I wondered if she had a slight mental handicap but eventually I started thinking that she was so isolated and sheltered that she was just very naive. She clung to me like we'd been best friends forever. It broke my heart. At one point she grabbed my hand and said "I feel like I've known you forever" and didn't let go for a long time. I could only imagine how lonely she must be, stuck at home looking after the babies all the time, doing chores.

At one point she mentioned how her mom was going to make her wedding dress, and I wondered if they were marrying her off soon. She was still a child. Another time, she said that sometimes she saw people listening to rock music and thought "how sad their lives must be because they must not know God." She was so brainwashed, sheltered, and obviously so lonely but glossing over it with religious fluff, like she had been taught to do. After she left, I went home and cried.

I think religion is good (though spirituality is probably a better term for it) when people come to it on their own, and not just because they're desperate and need something to cling to. I think it's rare that people have a healthy relationship with religion, or even a good reason for being religious in the first place.
Click to expand...

You've made a lot of assumptions about these people only after a short meeting with them. It's possible the children are brainwashed and it's also possible you simply don't understand their culture.

Her mother planning to make her wedding dress doesn't necessarily mean she'll have a prematurely early marriage. It may mean that mother and daughter like to dream of the future together.

She clung to you like you were best friends forever. I'm assuming you are North American. In some places abroad, children aren't taught to be as cautious of adults and they are much more friendly with adults similar to how you describe it. Perhaps, in their subculture she is surrounded by adults that haven't taught her to fear.

Someone talking about how much they love God does not necessarily suggest mental handicap. Perhaps, she genuinely loves God and in her community she's rewarded for expressing it.

Handsewn dresses and long hair doesn't equal religious nut. It's old-fashioned and it may even be for religious reasons but it doesn't mean they aren't intelligent people.

You are standing on the outside of their culture and making assumptions about their lifestyles and motives without having any real knowledge of them.
 
Lerxst said:
Is it possible to actually have a normal one?

By devoutly, I mean, the types that spend an entire day in Bible study, name their kids after Biblical figures and just ooze "God" out of every pore of their body. Ever try having a conversation with one of these people? I have to admit, it gets me irritated.

Me - How's the weather?
Them - God blessed us with a beautiful day.

Me - Do you want to...?
Them - If God sees fit to allow me...

Me - What do you think of...?
Them - Well, the Bible says we should...​

Independent thought goes out the window and critical thinking is a foreign concept. It probably gets me more irritated by the fact that the words coming out of their mouth are utterly meaningless. It's like writing a term paper in school that consists of nothing but paraphrases and references to other's works.

I'm not trying to bash religions or the people in them. I grew up in a Catholic family going to Sunday school, but even the priests and nuns I would speak to were rather "normal" people to have conversations with; like they grasped the concept of what it meant to be a human being in a world full of human beings.

The "born again" types in some of the "fringe" (as I call them) religions just seem to act like creepy zombies a lot of time and it gets unnerving for me to be around them. Some of them would say that being that "close to God" at first does that to people. I haven't had the heart to tell them that it's not God that makes my spine crawl.
Click to expand...

Aah. It irritates you I understand but think of it as harmless enthusiasm. I'm just grateful that giving everyone the kiss of peace hasn't come back in to fashion. :D

[video=youtube;sCgpA1E_VyU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCgpA1E_VyU&feature=feedu[/video]
 
Barnabas said:
See your missing the point, it's not about arguing. In fact the arguing is the problem. When you get into a debate with a person your focus isn't on what is he saying how does it affect me and what should I do with this information. You instead make it into a competition and try to win instead of trying to understand.
Click to expand...
!
 
willow said:
Aah. It irritates you I understand but think of it as harmless enthusiasm. I'm just grateful that giving everyone the kiss of peace hasn't come back in to fashion. :D
Click to expand...
What an adorable video!

The congregation I am currently with is the most touchy feely I've ever known. When we greet each other with "shabbat shalom" (sabbath peace) it is usually with a kiss, and many women will kiss me on BOTH cheeks!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top