Conversations with the devoutly religious

Blind Bandit said:
Understand what that beliefs in a false deity need to be pushed in everyone's face!. I don't blame anyone for getting argumentative if god comes up.

Its pretty clear you not getting the issue that is being presented. Most of us don't appreciate god being shoved down our throats for no reason. Small talk about everyday issues is not the place for god.
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Just because someone mentions God or some other deity doesn't mean they are trying to convert you. It usually means their belief is central to their life and so it naturally comes up in conversation because that is where their focus is. That includes small talk too. In the same way, some people their job is central in their life and it comes up in conversation often. I've had Christian friends of a wide variety of denominations and close friends who are Hindu and Buddhist. These things were never an issue. I cut them slack and they cut me some slack and we recognize our intentions towards each other are good. We've learned from each other. If I say "God bless you" to a person. I'm not trying to offend him or turn him into a Christian. I'm sharing with him something precious to me. If someone says "Namaste" to me they are sharing something precious to them with me. They aren't trying to start a religious war.
 
I find both extreme atheists and zealots to be quite annoying. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against either group as a whole. My issue with hardcore christians comes from the ones that seem to want to "smite" people for what they consider "bad" behavior and my issue with atheists comes from the ones who try and use their atheism to spit on the religious.
 
If you wish to see belief driving peoples activities observe the 9/11 was faked thread.

Because the evidence isn't in the view of some conclusive then a much more elaborate and complex and magical thing must be going on by default.

The evidence based individual would state 'I don't know enough to prove it, I don't know anything which supports an alternate theory, therefore I am undecided.'
 
I will not keep Jesus name out of my mouth if I feel like expressing gratitude to Him, but I try not to alienate others, because I know how easy it is to tune someone out when they seem overtly religious, and that isn't doing anybody any good. I feel like you can show someone better than you can tell them. And by showing, I mean, just by being yourself, not being overly demonstrative, and/or phony.

My father-in law will tell folks that he refuses to take shelter during a tornado, because "the good Lord's gonna take me when he's ready." Yeah... but do you really wanna get impaled or fractured by a flying toilet, dumbass??!! Use the good sense God gave ya! DUDE.
 
Religions, like Christianity, are created by the minds of humans to make sense of the oftentimes confusing world and to provide a framework for living one's life. Of course, some people don't need that, some know that what's right is right because you'd be a jackass if you did such and such to someone, but I suppose it could help people who otherwise wouldn't know how to treat people properly. It can also provide anchors for those who are going through tough times in their lives, and can't rely on themselves, nor others for support.

I see organized religion as a tool, then, that does have some use, though many deaths and atrocities have been justified in the name of God. The devoutly religious do take it a step further when they actually try to shove their beliefs down your throat, which happened to me when I was in a hospital waiting room, actually. I swear, this lady was incredibly persistent in her attempt to make me believe, but that doesn't mean all conversations with the devoutly religious boil down to this. Some are brainwashed, yes, but that does a disservice to those who use their beliefs to do good, even if you don't agree with their beliefs.

I for one am agnostic and don't find myself in any position to say who's right concerning religion, nor who's wrong - I am not the ultimate bearer of knowledge, I question all that I see, and all I see before me are a plethora of religions that all think they're right. In a way, they're true for each person, and right as long they aren't taken too far or pressed upon others.
 
Lerxst: I'm a little confused about your question. First you wonder if you can have a normal conversation with a devoutly religious person. Then, in the same post, you offer your memories of normal conversations with some pretty devoutly religious people (nuns, etc.)

It seems to me that you are mostly bugged by the cultural differences of some very small minorities. Some groups say "Thank G-d." Some say, "Praise the Lord." Some say "Barukh Hashem" (bless G-d). If you grew up catholic, "Thank G-d" probably rolls off your back as a nothingism, while "Praise the Lord" or "Barukh Hashem" probably feel odd and other to you. Have I guessed correctly?

I would probably say that I get bugged if someone is obsessed with one particular issue, whether its their religion (or anti-religion) or politics or computers.
 
Pretty much my whole family is like this. I'm Christian as well, but MUCH more on the liberal end, and pretty unorthodox, or "unique". It's kind of annoying if I talk to them too much - they talk God and Jesus all the time, but if I were to outright talk about *my* beliefs, which are much different in general, it would be World War 3 in the house.
 
GracieRuth said:
Lerxst: I'm a little confused about your question. First you wonder if you can have a normal conversation with a devoutly religious person. Then, in the same post, you offer your memories of normal conversations with some pretty devoutly religious people (nuns, etc.)

It seems to me that you are mostly bugged by the cultural differences of some very small minorities. Some groups say "Thank G-d." Some say, "Praise the Lord." Some say "Barukh Hashem" (bless G-d). If you grew up catholic, "Thank G-d" probably rolls off your back as a nothingism, while "Praise the Lord" or "Barukh Hashem" probably feel odd and other to you. Have I guessed correctly?

I would probably say that I get bugged if someone is obsessed with one particular issue, whether its their religion (or anti-religion) or politics or computers.
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My question isn't about the casual conversations or the day-to-day reactionary phrases people say like "God bless you" if you sneeze (I even say that). It's something that your Ni picks up on when you talk with a person; that sense that what you say is being analyzed in a religious aspect and what they mean is also has a very religious angle to it.

It's really about the "holier than though" attitude that people give in situations like that. Like the ultra-conservative Mormon town in the Mormon state I live in, where some people just don't "get" that the rest of the world still functions just fine without their religious views. Where the rest of us can still be normal people and have some genuine feelings, despite having no belief in an almighty God..
 
Lerxt: Okay, I totally get where you are coming from now. It's a particular "feel" we get when talking to a highly sheltered person who exists only in their tiny microchosm, who doesn't really get that there are human beings that have wonderful lives outside their tiny village.

I try to deal with my irritation in the following manner: I remember a part of the Lord of the Rings where Gandalf and Frodo are discussing Hobbits in the Shire, who are after all extremely narrow minded and unadventurous! But Gandalf reminds Frodo that it is exactly these sort of common folk, with their common work and common pleasures, that make acts of heroism worth it. So when I find myself wanting to call someone a self-righteous moron, I just imagine them with furry feet.

For the Shire!!!!!!
 
Yeah, we call them the hyper spiritual and they tend to have a tendency to be superstitious. Don't get me wrong its important for a Christian to acknowledge God, thank God and consult the bible on a daily basis, but this is something that should done privately or amongst Christian brothers and sisters, otherwise you're merely making a public spectacle out of yourself. Not all Christians are like this, it usually depends on the denomination they come from and what influence its had on them.
 
I believe that it is possible to have a normal coversation with a devoutly religious person. Personally I have a friend at work who is a devout Christian and I often debate with him and he is always respectful toward me. I really don't believe in god and I have a lot of trouble believing in anything writtin from a holy book, so I openly reject all of his beliefs just as he openly rejects all of mine, but we have never disrespected eachother. All of our conversations end with us complimenting eachothers view points even though we disagree. He is a very intelligent person, so maybe that's why he is so open minded to the conversation.

It is possible, you just have to present yourself in a cordial manner. Also the devoutly religious person would have to have an understanding of the other side. So I guess it really depends on the person.
 
Yes, you can. I have a few very religious friends who are some of the best people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. They don't drag God into everything. They only ever bring their religious views up when it's warranted (When I ask them for their beliefs on a subject) as they know I'm not of their religion and they respect that.

I think you're simply talking about one specific group of religious followers. I think you mean is it possible to have a conversation with someone who rejects facts and knowledge and follows a religion blindly (The ones who simply say God made it so to everything) to which the answer is obviously no.
 
Seraphim said:
Even though I live in the Bible Belt, I don't meet very many people like that. But last summer, one day I was in the fabrics section of Hobby Lobby when a woman, a young girl (both with long hair, wearing handsewn dresses), and 3 toddlers/babies approached me. I happened to be wearing a long skirt that day, and I have extremely long hair. The woman asked me if I could point them to any churches in the area. I was caught off guard, and I didn't realize right away that they had assumed I was of the same denomination as them (though I'm not sure exactly what that would be).

The mother left after a couple of minutes, but the girl with a baby on her hip stayed, and the toddlers stayed with her. She looked like a teenager, possibly a younger looking 20 year old. I wondered if any of those babies were hers. She talked to me until they left, saying that she loved God so much and she was so glad to have met me because I seemed like such a nice person. From the childlike way she spoke, at first I wondered if she had a slight mental handicap but eventually I started thinking that she was so isolated and sheltered that she was just very naive. She clung to me like we'd been best friends forever. It broke my heart. At one point she grabbed my hand and said "I feel like I've known you forever" and didn't let go for a long time. I could only imagine how lonely she must be, stuck at home looking after the babies all the time, doing chores.

At one point she mentioned how her mom was going to make her wedding dress, and I wondered if they were marrying her off soon. She was still a child. Another time, she said that sometimes she saw people listening to rock music and thought "how sad their lives must be because they must not know God." She was so brainwashed, sheltered, and obviously so lonely but glossing over it with religious fluff, like she had been taught to do. After she left, I went home and cried.

I think religion is good (though spirituality is probably a better term for it) when people come to it on their own, and not just because they're desperate and need something to cling to. I think it's rare that people have a healthy relationship with religion, or even a good reason for being religious in the first place.
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Seraphim said:
I think you completely misinterpreted my whole post...You're right that it doesn't necessarily mean she'll be married prematurely. I was projecting there. But I based that speculation on the fact that the mom was bossing the daughter around, wandering off on her own and leaving the girl to carry the baby on her hip and watch the two toddlers. Like she was a mother already, or a mom-in-training. I seriously doubt she was ever taught that not marrying or having kids was an option. The thing about her mom making her dress was completely random, too. It came out of the blue and made me wonder why she would be bringing it up.Like I said, she came across as *desperate,* very socially awkward, naive, and lonely. Not simply friendly. Not well adjusted. Also, she wasn't a child. She was in her teens. Even normal friendliness for a kid would not be normal for a teen. She was too childlike for her age.Of course not. I never suggested that. I never suggested that she actually had a mental handicap either—I just said that was my first impression, and then I came to realize she was just very sheltered.Apparently she thought that anyone listening to rock music in their car did not know God. Not just that rock music was ungodly, but that it was impossible to listen to rock music and be a Christian. Doesn't that seem extreme to you? Do you think this young girl came to that conclusion on her own, or that she's been brainwashed by strict adults? In combination with the fact that her mom was making her babysit the whole time there were there, I think it was safe for me to assume that she's had a restrictive upbringing and hasn't been allowed to have much fun.I mean, think about it. A teenager would never conclude on their own that listening to rock music was directly correlated with a lack of God. She was parroting what adults around her have said. Imagine you're raising a teenager and you don't want them to be tempted to, heaven forbid, actually have FUN or listen to rock music like other teenagers. So you tell them, "Those poor ungodly young people who listen to rock music.... It must be so sad not to have God in your life." You turn it around, make it look like they're the ones missing out, so your teenager will feel sorry for them instead of wanting to join them. Manipulation.You're just referencing parts of my story without considering the context at all. No, hand sewn dresses and long hair don't indicate a religious nut. I even said that at the time I was dressed like them and that I had long hair, so that would have to make me a religious nut too. I never said they were unintelligent, either. Though the girl was clearly uneducated about the outside world, she could have a very good formal education, for all I know.I merely observed that the girl, regardless of what her religion or may be, was sheltered, naive, and socially awkward to the point that she came across as mentally handicapped. No, not all devoutly religious people are religious nuts, but given the way they acted it was safe to assume they were extremists and that it was unhealthy for the girl.It's true that I don't have any real knowledge of them. I don't even know exactly what their religion is. But how could it be any clearer that the young girl was being stifled by the culture she grew up in?
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Yep. Extremists. I was raised like this (down to the long hair, long skirt, rock music is evil, etc.... heh I'm goth now...), and actually it's likely that her marriage will be at least semi-arranged. By semi, meaning, they pick out her husband and just don't tell her until she at least knows him enough to acquiesce and make her think that the guy started it all. I know. My family arranged a marriage for me, which I ran away to avoid. I still consider myself a Christian but I'm nowhere near as crazy as my family. I don't think it's necessary to shove God into the middle of a conversation when it's just chit-chat. But then again I don't usually chit chat either.

But yeah, socially awkward at the least, and still very naive about the world. When you're brainwashed so much it takes a while to loosen up. I still can't watch movies.

There is no real conversation with these kinds of people. If you don't do things THEIR way, you're sinning. No matter what their way is.
 
I was raised Mormon...lol....(very funny now it seems) But I can only have conversations if there is some form of shared respect for one anothers viewpoint. This is unfortunately not taught to the very religious. There are a few people here and there though that have the ability to be mutually respectful.
 
I think its sad that being a devoutly religious person is something that is looked down upon and is taken to mean: crazy religious nut, instead of someone to be emulated for their compassion, selfawareness, and good works.
 
i will not have conversation about god with a devoutly religious person.
i don't have the patience for it.
 
It is sad that the whole "What would Jesus do?" quote thing...was never really followed as taught by Jesus. I doubt that he would shoot abortion Docs, I doubt that he would not let Gays marry, I doubt that he would buy himself a McMansion, I doubt that he would do a lot of the things that the (especially the evangelical) Christians of today take part in.
 
I'm kind of dealing with this right now, it seems. The last couple of days, I've been involved in a "debate" with my mom about my religious beliefs. She's currently accusing me of being in a cult. I have mentioned nothing of the more Pagan aspects of my faith.... the closest I've come to that is listing on facebook that I consider myself a "panentheist", which is the belief that God is in all things, but also bigger than all things. I do still consider myself Christian, even if a liberal one. All this started when I agreed with one of her facebook friends' comments that I believe that Tim Tebow is showing off his religion for attention. Her friend is, like her, a Southern Baptist. So if I disagree with a Southern Baptist, I'm part of a cult. And now, if I *agree* with the *wrong* Southern Baptist, I'm part of a cult. Just little reminders of why I moved four hours away.


The ultimate irony of all this? She wants to go back to school. To be a guidance counselor. God help those poor children.
 
FindingMyself said:
I'm kind of dealing with this right now, it seems. The last couple of days, I've been involved in a "debate" with my mom about my religious beliefs. She's currently accusing me of being in a cult. I have mentioned nothing of the more Pagan aspects of my faith.... the closest I've come to that is listing on facebook that I consider myself a "panentheist", which is the belief that God is in all things, but also bigger than all things. I do still consider myself Christian, even if a liberal one. All this started when I agreed with one of her facebook friends' comments that I believe that Tim Tebow is showing off his religion for attention. Her friend is, like her, a Southern Baptist. So if I disagree with a Southern Baptist, I'm part of a cult. And now, if I *agree* with the *wrong* Southern Baptist, I'm part of a cult. Just little reminders of why I moved four hours away.


The ultimate irony of all this? She wants to go back to school. To be a guidance counselor. God help those poor children.
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Technically, you're arguing with God. Not that she isn't being ignorant, or that you're wrong for expressing your disagreement, but I mean to say that changing a viewpoint can easily alter perceptions. She's certainly being ignorant, but she'll likely grow out of it.

I agree though. Tebow is playing for attention, certainly.
 
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