Corona / Wuhan virus

ReasonEnduring said:
Canada will endure. It'll be rough times but no matter what happens in the US I get the feeling Canada is more like the UK in some ways and there is a stronger community spirit than the US.

The Great North will endure, though it may mean re-alligning with the EU a bit more if the worst comes to the worst (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). The EU would love better relations with Canada giving the state of their economies.

Though I think the US will power through, have a bit of a wave of death, then see a Democrat rise to the Presidency in November.
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In Canada, at least from what I can see, most of us are fine. Our gov't will give out 2k a month to anyone who lost wages due to this. They're helping people first. They've indicated that if we can't pay our rent that we should prioritize putting food on the table. Some people have criticized our PM for telling people not to panic but the don't understand that our government is actually going to help take care of us. We will have damage, our healthcare will struggle and there will be some fallout but generally speaking the citizens here do not have to be afraid that we are going to end up starving and homeless. Canada will be OK. Just like we were fine during the recession.

Canada is pretty strict on a lot of things financially and we have never had a bank collapse. Don't know wtf other countries are doing, but generally speaking, we are well taken care of regardless of the bitching people do about Liberal VS Conservative. I think we see what happens in the USA and because we are so close we sometimes get scared that it's somehow going to bleed into our way of life but generally, I think we mostly feel safe and that means a lot.

I would imagine that other countries also feel this way if their government is more on the social side. Maybe we're just extremely lucky. I am thankful every day that I had the absolute privilege of being born here and I wish other people could know how that feels to not have to be so afraid about basic necessities in life.
 
acd said:
We're fucked under Trump's leadership but communities will band together to fight this thing AND I think we may come out of this realizing how short-sighted and self-destructive all that rugged-individualism is. Maybe there will be a cultural shift. Where the federal government under Trump's incompetent administration is failing, private citizens are volunteering to make PPE and companies are making PPE and ventilators. We see retired healthcare professionals volunteering to go back to work during the outbreak.
Trump may pressure governors to relax social distancing so that we're open by Easter, but I'm hoping states will be smart enough to resist that pressure and do what is right. Maybe we will come out of it changed for the better by demanding intact safety nets and healthcare for all. Because if we ensured everyone had access to healthcare and wasn't forced to work when sick-- or most of us weren't a paycheck away from being destitute, maybe we could have managed this better earlier on. But for the time being, you guys are right to close your borders to us.
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He is basically hanging democratic states out to dry and wants them to be "nice" to him before he "helps." I have a deep hatred for him.

I hope the American people see through this and find a way to come together. Afterall, there are 330 million of you against one rotten orange. I'm just sorry you're all in that position to begin with.

Universal healthcare would be transformative and I think it would improve the state of the USA beyond what people can even imagine. I don't think people realize they would actually save financially with universal healthcare but they would save on their health and wellbeing as well . But your healthcare now is run like a business. It's incomprehensible to me.
 
Wyote said:
Americans simply don't want free healthcare, this election cycle has taught us that
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It's not free in Canada. We pay taxes out of each pay cheque and that tax is distributed to a bunch of services, including healthcare. I think people in the USA get really bent about being taxed but they have no problems paying an extortionate amount of money to insurance companies for some reason.... Nevermind if they don't even have a job. The mental gymnastics people have to do in order to hold on to their beliefs about universal healthcare should get them an olympic medal.
 
SpecialEdition said:
He is basically hanging democratic states out to dry and wants them to be "nice" to him before he "helps." I have a deep hatred for him.

I hope the American people see through this and find a way to come together. Afterall, there are 330 million of you against one rotten orange. I'm just sorry you're all in that position to begin with.

Universal healthcare would be transformative and I think it would improve the state of the USA beyond what people can even imagine. I don't think people realize they would actually save financially with universal healthcare but they would save on their health and wellbeing as well . But your healthcare now is run like a business. It's incomprehensible to me.
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It was a WW2 Thing. Places like the UK created the NHS, Europeans had basic healthcare for all.

The US tied to to jobs to reduce cost. It worked well after the war because there was a massive boom as the US had no damage from the war and had a lot of money from war loans coming in.

Unemployment was low so it worked really well.

Fast forward 70 years, the system wasn't designed to work with high levels of unemployment, an increased popualtion or the advances in preventative care so it kinda fall apart.

As with most things in the US including the Constitution, they weren't design with the future in mind, only solving an immediate problem.
 
I should also say that I work for a company owned in the USA that has offices globally. Our USA people believe all of our plants and facilities will be at 100% capacity by... you guessed it.... Easter. lol. Either they know they're fucked and are just trying to keep shareholders happy for a couple of weeks, or they are deluded beyond comprehension and I should endeaver to get the fuck out of this company when this shit finally settles.
 
SpecialEdition said:
It's not free in Canada. We pay taxes out of each pay cheque and that tax is distributed to a bunch of services, including healthcare. I think people in the USA get really bent about being taxed but they have no problems paying an extortionate amount of money to insurance companies for some reason.... Nevermind if they don't even have a job. The mental gymnastics people have to do in order to hold on to their beliefs about universal healthcare should get them an olympic medal.
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It could be down to the average American not liking tax and not trusting government programs.

The US has always been State vs Federal government which doesn't translate elsewhere in the world.

The UK and probably Canda excluding Quebec are fairly centralised so taxation is less of an issue. In then States though you have Federal and State tax and States actively compete against each other and the Federal government hwich is a massive clusterfuck so the people don't trust government programs as much as other countries as their entire system far more convoluted.
 
ReasonEnduring said:
It could be down to the average American not liking tax and not trusting government programs.

The US has always been State vs Federal government which doesn't translate elsewhere in the world.

The UK and probably Canda excluding Quebec are fairly centralised so taxation is less of an issue. In then States though you have Federal and State tax and States actively compete against each other and the Federal government hwich is a massive clusterfuck so the people don't trust government programs as much as other countries as their entire system far more convoluted.
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We have a separation of Federal and Provincial regulations also. Each province has it's own way of having taxes, healthcare, etc worked out. Alberta being the "oil" province likes to pretend it can be separate from the rest of Canada but it had no backup plan when oil went down and people blame the Federal Government for that for some reason lol. Quebec likes to think that it's an independent country already and does things very much on its own but is still subject to Federal regulations. While each province is unique in how it sets things up, you still "feel" you are in Canada. In that way it feels different than the USA where people are very state proud and each state somehow feels like an entirely different country all being fucked by the same prick.
 
SpecialEdition said:
We have a separation of Federal and Provincial regulations also. Each province has it's own way of having taxes, healthcare, etc worked out. Alberta being the "oil" province likes to pretend it can be separate from the rest of Canada but it had no backup plan when oil went down and people blame the Federal Government for that for some reason lol. Quebec likes to think that it's an independent country already and does things very much on its own but is still subject to Federal regulations. While each province is unique in how it sets things up, you still "feel" you are in Canada. In that way it feels different than the USA where people are very state proud and each state somehow feels like an entirely different country all being fucked by the same prick.
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That makes sense.

The US was designed to be union of States rather than a signle country so I always say the EU and US Federal government are more alike than say Germany is to the US. The UK is the Texas of the EU except we actually left so lets see how that pans out for us.
 
"He’s described the illness as a “little flu,” a trifling “cold.” He’s accused the media of manufacturing “hysteria”—even as confirmed cases of the coronavirus, which causes the disease COVID-19, soar to well over half a million and deaths to roughly 25,000 worldwide. The coronavirus-denial movement officially has a leader, and it’s Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro."
Thats super accurate and its all literal and no exageration.

Bolsonaro Leads the Coronavirus-Denial Movement - The Atlantic

Also, Bolsonaro had listed religious activities as "essential", so any religious crowding events are going to be back (because, you know, a lot of brazilian priests have a significant income and bilionarie, famous and prestigied priest is something REAL in Brazil).

Jair Bolsonaro promulgates decree that makes spirituality an essential activity - Cryptodictation

I tried to even switch google to english and google region to US but I got no english news to link, so I am going to report it in my words. This news is completely real: Today, president Bolsonaro spend 1 million dollars from tax payers to release a new market campaign called: "Brazil cant stop". This new campaign is to re-open everything in monday, to end the quarantine everywhere (including where there are dozens of deaths and dozens of thousands of cases) and only people over age 65 are recommended to be kept in home (recommended!). People took their cars and started protesting in favor of Bolsonaro campaign (that now is official, but it was informal since 2-3 days ago) - and several of these cars were expensive cars - in the roads, starting yesterday night and also today, horning all over the street (they were protesting in their cars!). The expectancy is that some states ends quarantine in monday. The 4th or 5h state in local Corona ranking(from 27) has already taken quarantine down officially. In other areas where quarantine was made by population and not by law, several comertial areas are already back. Some states had 2 weeks quarantine (most brazilian places are in quarantine for a week - mine is only for 6 days) and it is expected that none of them are going to extend that quarantine, and those which will try, will definitely be pressed by federal government to end the quarantine. Reasonable estimates says that, with that campaign, about 5,000 of brazilians are going to die directly from Corona in the next two weeks, with a number raising exponencially. But, Bolsonaro is already working a lot into limiting the number of tests as much as possible, so there wont be statistics reports to, you know, disturb the economies. Also, Bolsonaro is already aware of the deaths, and he just literally said: "Its part of life".

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Many super billionaries are happy with this and I bet that they moved stuff to this to happen. OMG I hate conservatives, they are ruining everything around here. Also, never saw so much unvirtued religions, >=(.

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The governor of the state with most deaths and cases of Corona, 'João Dória' (João is the portuguese version of the name, in english, John) (he is from right wing), is resisting Bolsonaro´s order and wants to keep quarantine on his state. Bolsonaro followers from the far right wing are sending multiple life threats to John. They want to literally murder John for keeping the quarantine.

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@SpecialEdition You are very reasonable to be greatful for being born in Canada.
 
SpecialEdition said:
It's not free in Canada. We pay taxes out of each pay cheque and that tax is distributed to a bunch of services, including healthcare. I think people in the USA get really bent about being taxed but they have no problems paying an extortionate amount of money to insurance companies for some reason.... Nevermind if they don't even have a job. The mental gymnastics people have to do in order to hold on to their beliefs about universal healthcare should get them an olympic medal.
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I was just using it as a blanket term but I realize now I've confused people.
Economics.
 
there is no federal response in this country. states are left to figure it out on their own. .scramble to find what supplies they can. . it is an out rage. split ventilators in New York, while they sit unused in Tennessee.. doctorrs and nurses reusing ppe.or buying them where ever they can find them. . price gouging on critical supplies with no federal intervention. . this is complete bullshit. . people are dying because trump is incompetent. .I am so fucking angry. . some states are not taking it seriously, so there are thousands of cases unaccounted for. . fuck, fuck, fuck. . .florida isn't even seriously testing. . states in the south are lead by trump lackeys that see no need to take any precautions. . well donny congratulations, we are now number fucking one in the world . . of covid 19 cases
 
philostam said:
I always defended China but I am really pissed off with them too.

Huge blow for their "soft power".

I don't believe it's a chemical weapon - but can we please stop it with the wet markets already!?
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People should take forest and animal reserves more seriously. The wet market is just a part of that intricate system of environmental abuse. It's the environmental abuse that's killing us, taking its vengeance on us like badass mother fuckers. We all partake in this abuse, even as we buy a palm oil product off the clean and pretty shelves of high end supermarkets. So, yes. We had this coming. It's mostly our fault. Much of the blood is on the capitalists' hands, especially the ruthless ones.

There is simply no evidence that this is biochemical warfare either but I can't blame the conspiracy theorists. The location of the Wuhan live market and the Bio Lab of China within its range could be a coincidence, but it's truly the combined presence of the train station (a transport network that connects with basically the rest of the world) and the lunar new year that was deadly. The virus may have infected more asymptomatic people than we know as early as late November and those people would have already spread it elsewhere during incubation period before showing any symptoms. Given the travel reach of people during holidays, it was simply massive hell on the loose. I couldn't rule out that China could have intended for this to happen because Xi JinPing is ambitious and dangerously intelligent. I mean, an agent could simply flick off a tiny vial at any conspicuous transportation node at that same season. It just has to be humble enough and close to a night market enough for it to be plausible. But clearly, there's no evidence of that, yet or ever. If it is intended warfare then I would bet we would never know it is. On the other hand, it could also just be mother nature fucking with us. We've tweaked so many of her parts and disoriented so many of her species even though we have always known that we still don't have the maximum capacity to forecast her evolutionary tendencies. Warfare or not, it is clear that humanity is at least partially at fault. We have always known that karma is a bitch, I don't know why we're all acting so surprised now.

In any case, the war against the virus has to be won first now and then investigated later. In other words, now is not the time for pointing fingers but is the time for damage control. If it truly is biochemical warfare, the burden of proof lies on the accuser. Whether or not it is intended warfare, we clearly need to amp up on safeguarding measures. We need to rethink our cities and our current systems if we don't want this to happen again.

It is clearly the stuff of change. There's a part of me that feels it's kind of awesome to experience this now. Some generations never get to experience this kind of crazy. That's both a good thing and a bad thing.

So, it's time for us to calm down now people and fight this with a clear head.
 
Milktoast Bandit said:
I believe we're fucked no matter who is in office. There is only one leader of the United States and it is a large group of many lobbyists all with very deep pockets, all cramming the assholes of every elected official with brand new, crisp dolla billz.

I started a bunch of shit at work earlier in the week at the company I work for because of their willful ignorance to the crisis. Today, I had a talk with three of my company's main bosses about how they are handling this thing. The things I believe we're confirmed and I realized some things about the country at large.
1. The leaders of my company are not afraid of the virus, getting sick, or dying.
2. The leaders of my company are afraid of going out of business.
3. The leaders of my company do not understand that people outside of the company exist.
4. The leaders of my company do not care about the people that make the company what it is.
5. The leaders of my company are big time Trump supporters.
6. The leaders of my company do not trust news reports or "mainstream media."
7. The leaders of my company believe if they use people to save the business, they will save the economy, and save the nation.
8. That is the only greater good.

During my meeting, audible sounds fell out of their heads, such as:
"Well, I believe it has been here since late last summer and no one said anything then." (Because a relative and his family got "deathly" sick and tested negative for the flu.)
"I wish people would shut up about this flu."
"People are such pussies."
"We're all going to get it anyway."
"What they news conveniently glosses over is that we will have to pay it (an SBA loan from the new stimulus bill) back."
"When I go home, I don't turn the news on. It only creates anxiety."
"We will not get a loan, but if you do have it or are uncomfortable at work, you can use your 88 hrs of vacation time."
"We are blessed to still have a job."
"The federal government is working hard to stop this."
"The numbers you hear on the news are exaggerated."
In between trying to explain to them that I'm not worried for myself, it's just wrong to be contributing to the spread of an infectious disease that will put people in the hospital and kill them and if everyone gets sick at the same time the hospitals will collapse, the healthcare workers will get sick, people that are covid negative will die, I know what nurses and doctors are already suffering through and listening to their ignorant puke, it dawned on me that Trump has been at war with the media since before he was elected. Fox news, the other high profile fuckers and Trump just defend themselves against an imaginary enemy (anyone or thing that can be even remotely considered 'left,' including science and general humanity) And people eat it up, believe it, live it, adopt thebl 'enemies.' Trump has also proposed to cut CDC's budget more than once. Now we have a pandemic. The media is attempting to get information to the masses, but many don't believe it to be true because he discredits any media any chance he can. The media is the enemy. Now, when the media tries to tell the people what is happening in the world and the US in particular regarding the pandemic, people don't believe it and continue in ignorance. Others, that take this more seriously speak up, (like myself) are viewed as "freaking out," and it is even more clear that we are a divided nation in the worst way. It's no longer politics. It's two (or more) completely different realities filled with completely different species of creature that can't communicate. One believes health and life are primary. The other believes the lies that 'Nation' is economy and economy is life. Nation and God are synonymous. It is not life itself they stand for but, their 'way of life, ' in this so called land of freedom where our lives depend on every cent we make off the backs, health and life of others. And that is a very short sighted, selfish and shallow way to live.

When a fucking governor goes on TV, explains the situation in their state and tells the federal government exactly what must be done in order to meet the demands of a growing and crippling crisis and he is met with doubt that is believed and repeated to millions of faithful viewers every day and no or minimal action is taken, we are fucked in all the ways. And this shit is just what is needed. But be careful world! We have guns. Lots and lots of guns. A whole serious bunch of guns. I'm not talking about a couple. I'm talking about over half the population with massive arsenals buried in their back yards to hide em from the government. Think twice before you invade! On second thought... That may be the only way to unite us. Fuckers.
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Ah. My head hurts. So are they planning to shoot bullets on the virus until it ricochets to their heads? America is headed for a collapse and it's all because of the refusal to recognize that capitalism, especially amoral capitalism, is flawed and suicidal. Get out of that country while you still have the chance. It will be one of the world's greatest liabilities soon. What goes up often goes down and America has been up for a while, so good luck with the mathematical trajectory of that. No offense.

If I may speak freely, this is clearly a phase of denial. The American people are finding it hard to accept that such a small non-being is crippling its high and mighty first world stature. They should remember that David killed Goliath and COVID19 might as well be the David of 2020. Do they really need to see the bodies before they realized they're ultimately fucked? I listened to Trump a while ago, I think the old man is just confused.
 
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