Dating that Leads to Marriage?

RunDeep said:
This is true, but being a father is one of my biggest dreams, so that would never work for me. I want my future children to have a family and a mother that they know I am committed to. Marriage gives the the spouse, and especially the children, security. The ring is a symbol of commitment. If I loved someone and wanted to have a family with her, why wouldn't I marry her?
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Well, if you need to justify marriage with your need to become a father, I wont convince you otherwise. I'm not judging you, it's your life. I'll benefit from my own advice, and perhaps you'll be better off following your own ideals.
 
the end goal should be to work on things in the long run. being in a relationship isn't just about loving each other. it comes with other things (respect,trust, understanding etc) and to have or be with someone who would be with you through everything -- may it be in good times and in bad (sounds too cliche) would be amazing.

personally i dont believe in marriage. it's made by society for state/country purposes. i believe more in two people working things out than creating an illusion that marriage is an end goal or the ultimate of relationships when it's just a piece of paper that states that two people are bind together by law and religion.
 
There's a certain kind of trust and security that can only be found in a marriage. Of course, there are also safety mechanisms in place for the children and both spouses if things don't work out.

The piece of paper you sign is a vow you make in front of the whole world about your commitment to the person you marry. Just like baptism. When you get baptized you made a vow before people and God. The relationship in marriage is the marriage after the paper. The relationship with God is the relationship after the baptism. (I'm not the religious sort, but I used that example for comparison.)

It's not the piece of paper that's important-- it's the vow of commitment in front of the world.
 
RunDeep said:
There's a certain kind of trust and security that can only be found in a marriage. Of course, there are also safety mechanisms in place for the children and both spouses if things don't work out.

The piece of paper you sign is a vow you make in front of the whole world about your commitment to the person you marry. Just like baptism. When you get baptized you made a vow before people and God. The relationship in marriage is the marriage after the paper. The relationship with God is the relationship after the baptism. (I'm not the religious sort, but I used that example for comparison.)

It's not the piece of paper that's important-- it's the vow of commitment in front of the world.
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1. Marriage doesn't actually bring that trust/security...or else divorce rates wouldn't be so high.
2.Marriage can bring a certain level of safety for families and children, it also seriously complicates things in the event that the marriage ends, complications that heavily burden the woman statistically speaking.
3. The vow can still be made if important without marriage. The paper literally does nothing to effect the actual relationship.
 
RunDeep said:
THIS. Studies show that children do adjust better in life when raised by two married parents.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...ed-by-married-parents-are-better-behaved.html
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Oh honey...I've spent over 5 years now debating this concept.

Better behavior doesn't necessarily mean a more emotionally healthy child.

Studies like this also fail to take into account factors that are far more important to a child's success in life than the legitimacy of their parents relationship. SES is actually the most important factor.
 
Marriage is much, much more than a piece of paper, and that the act of saying vows to each other and committing to lifetime love is what's important, not the certificate you can hang on your wall later. It isn't as simple as mumbling a few words and having someone pronounce you husband and wife, it's a serious symbolic gesture you make to each other that elevates your relationship to the ultimate level - and that's what people who call it "just a piece of paper" are afraid of.

Whenever someone uses this line, I tell him or her straight out - You know it's more than that, otherwise you wouldn't be so afraid of doing it.
 
i know what you mean. it's just for me, i don't need anyone to show or vow to any constitutions may it be law or priest that he is committed to me and only me. sure it does sound great and romantic but realistically speaking it is more than that. it's enough for me for someone who will just make me feel he is just as committed to me with or without a piece of paper stating that it is what he needs to do because we are married. but that is just my opinion.

and i am sorry but i do not believe in that article. there are amazing kids/people out there who are raised by single parents and are far better than those who have both parents.
 
ruji said:
Well, if you need to justify marriage with your need to become a father, I wont convince you otherwise. I'm not judging you, it's your life. I'll benefit from my own advice, and perhaps you'll be better off following your own ideals.
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A loving father would choose to do what's best for his children and the woman he loves if she would feel more safe in a marriage. A marriage does not make the relationship any better or worse, but why NOT do it if you love someone and are committed to them?
 
RunDeep said:
A loving father would choose to do what's best for his children and the woman he loves if she would feel more safe in a marriage. A marriage does not make the relationship any better or worse, but why NOT do it if you love someone and are committed to them?
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Your logic fits rather well within your domain of beliefs and ideals. I will not challenge that.
 
Here is something I found which I completely agree with. (http://www.andtheylivedhappilyeverafter.com) Thoughts?


"If you loved me, you wouldn't pester me about marriage, you'd just be happy to be with me."

"This reminds me of the line a high school boyfriend once tried on me, and likely many other girls; if you really love me, you'll sleep with me. Whether regarding sex or marriage, this statement is designed to be unanswerable. It is meant to leave you feeling guilty about not viewing sex, or love, as an end in itself and as the only thing that really matters.

In answering this, if you insist that you want to get married, you will end up looking like some scavenger who doesn't really value the individual you are in love with but rather some idea of matrimony that means more to you than he or she does. But if you if you grant this argument, if you say "I know love is the most important thing, I know marriage isn't nearly as important as love", then you haven't got a leg to stand on.

Everyone knows that, rationally speaking, love is more important than marriage if you absolutely had to choose one over the other - a loveless marriage or a lifelong love affair without a marriage ceremony - but since we seldom if ever have to choose between the two, there's no point in reducing it down to such all or nothing alternatives.

You can answer this by saying "If you loved me, you'd be happy to marry me.", because it's absolutely true. Someone who loves you, who really wants to be with you, won't try to make you feel like a "pest" or won't try to talk you out of marriage; they'll know that marriage is the next natural step in any profound love relationship, and that asking you to settle for "just being with me" is tantamount to saying " I don't want to get too serious, do you?"

Or you can always try this kind of thing: "What if I said to you 'we don't have to have sex all the time, do we? I mean, if you love me, you'll be happy to just cuddle with me, won't you?'" This is another unanswerable question they will find just as frustrating as the question they put to you. Cuddling is great, they'll say, but let's face it, sex is an important part of a love relationship.

So is marriage."
 
RunDeep said:
Whenever someone uses this line, I tell him or her straight out - You know it's more than that, otherwise you wouldn't be so afraid of doing it.
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As someone who used to believe that, and then spent a year researching the statistical ramifications of divorce vs. staying in a bad marriage ... I can say that from a factual stand point, it is nothing more. Yes there is symbolic meaning to marriage, but it is he relationship that matters.
RunDeep said:
A marriage does not make the relationship any better or worse, but why NOT do it if you love
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I'm not saying don't get married, I'm saying don't rush into it. Don't assume that your relationship will be like X, Y, Z simply because you are married unless you have actually discussed X, Y, Z.
 
Jet said:
As someone who used to believe that, and then spent a year researching the statistical ramifications of divorce vs. staying in a bad marriage ... I can say that from a factual stand point, it is nothing more. Yes there is symbolic meaning to marriage, but it is he relationship that matters.

I'm not saying don't get married, I'm saying don't rush into it. Don't assume that your relationship will be like X, Y, Z simply because you are married unless you have actually discussed X, Y, Z.
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I agree, but if you have an amazing dating relationship and are sure you want to commit yourselves to one another, then why not take the next step and get married? That is what dating is for. not rushing into it is important of course, but when you know, go ahead and make that commitment to one another.
 
RunDeep said:
Everyone knows that, rationally speaking, love is more important than marriage if you absolutely had to choose one over the other - a loveless marriage or a lifelong love affair without a marriage ceremony - but since we seldom if ever have to choose between the two, there's no point in reducing it down to such all or nothing alternatives.
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And this is what gets people in trouble. This idea that Love is somehow the most important element, when that is just not true. Love is easy. The important stuff, the hard stuff...that is hat people should be looking for.
 
Jet said:
And this is what gets people in trouble. This idea that Love is somehow the most important element, when that is just not true. Love is easy. The important stuff, the hard stuff...that is hat people should be looking for.
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If Love is not there but all the other elements are - trust, respect, same values etc - the relationship will struggle because the pull of Love will be too strong when it comes along..
 
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Jet said:
And this is what gets people in trouble. This idea that Love is somehow the most important element, when that is just not true. Love is easy. The important stuff, the hard stuff...that is hat people should be looking for.
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Well, you are an ENTJ. I'm an INFP. It's not surprising to me that you we don't agree on everything. lol That said, I do respect your opinion and everyone has a right to what they believe without judgment.

I do idealize and value love. It's who I am. If it takes me a lifetime to find a girl who values love in the same way that I do, then so be it. But I won't change an essential and integral part of who I am. Love is, and always will be, the most important element in a relationship to me.
 
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RunDeep said:
I'm curious as to what your intentions are when dating someone?
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RunDeep said:
I guess I'm a long-term commitment kind of guy. People who don't want this tend to baffle me.
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I haven't dated in over a decade. From age 6-14 I probably had a lot of idealistic feelings about marriage. After that I started contemplating such ideas and thinking for myself about them. I still really love the idea of celebrating a relationship and the union of two people. That being said, marriage is way too mixed up in political bullshit and has such a poor history of enabling/promoting equality, it leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. Not to mention the fact that a piece of paper is irrelevant to emotions and actions.

I always dated with the intent to find a life partner. So much has happened to me and those around me, I'm at a point now where I fully expect to have multiple life partners if I continue living long enough. I have a pretty solid life partner right now and I'd like to stay with them, but nobody knows what tomorrow will bring.
 
I never dated with the intention of it leading to marriage. I was and still am a very independent person but little did I know that I actually feared the prospect of being "together forever." First proposal, I dismissed it - second proposal was when I finally acknowledged my fears and then spent time working on my issues.....fortunately by the third proposal, I got my act together. My husband deserves a medal for his resilience. :m032:
 
Would be nice to think people would want to spend a life together. But when you think about it, isnt it a bit like choosing a cake you like...say vanilla and declaring you will never try another type of cake as long as you live? One day someone slides you some red velvet ... you know that vanilla is going down.
 
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