[INFJ] Did anyone ever stumble across a complete plan to save the world?

The tendency to view existent institutions, traditions, and society itself as arbitrary constructs that you can rebuild like Legos without concern for their origin and evolution, or dismissing them as simply something intentionally malevolent whenever a possible negative consequence of those systems arises. Therefore, the tendency to operate on a "new = better" mindset that goes hand-in-hand with moral relativism and principles that have an expiration date set to the start of the next social experiment. Again, it's not always unwarranted, but the damage these gung-ho utopian saviors can cause is immense.
I thought your were referring to actual philosophy, the contemplation of what "the good" is, what is "justice" or actual metaphysics like, what is this reality, how do we interact with it.... because on those accounts leftists have had a lot to contribute and are hardly apathetic. Have you read any feminist marxism? are you familiar with critical race theory?
 
Have you read any feminist marxism? are you familiar with critical race theory?

Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior?
 
Again, it's not always unwarranted, but the damage these gung-ho utopian saviors can cause is immense.

Yes, the risk of, the degree of, and the extent of the undesired consequences of—the real potential for damage resulting from making a given change—must be carefully considered, contrasted against, and compared with, existing systems and institutions that have already caused untold and uncountable amounts of human suffering today, yesterday, and for the hundreds, or even thousands, of years before that—and which will continue, unabated, each day going forward.

I would guess one’s position will depend on a wide variety of things, the biggest likely being where one stands before any change is made, and where one expects to stand after said change comes to pass. I suppose not being affected by those systems and institutions provides one the privilege of being able to not give a fuck, such that one would have the leisure to pursue whatever one wanted instead.

Cheers,
Ian
 
The tendency to view existent institutions, traditions, and society itself as arbitrary constructs that you can rebuild like Legos without concern for their origin and evolution, or dismissing them as simply something intentionally malevolent whenever a possible negative consequence of those systems arises. Therefore, the tendency to operate on a "new = better" mindset that goes hand-in-hand with moral relativism and principles that have an expiration date set to the start of the next social experiment. Again, it's not always unwarranted, but the damage these gung-ho utopian saviors can cause is immense.
Sounds like a Sensor perspective. Prioritising the status quo over positive future change which is always possible. Sensors generally uphold status quo over positive change.
 
I thought your were referring to actual philosophy, the contemplation of what "the good" is, what is "justice" or actual metaphysics like, what is this reality, how do we interact with it.... because on those accounts leftists have had a lot to contribute and are hardly apathetic. Have you read any feminist marxism? are you familiar with critical race theory?
This is actually exactly what I mean. Marxists and their derivatives always see everything through the lens of oppression and coercion so there can be no metaphysical structure to obey, only the word of the ruling class as there is nothing higher than the will of man. It's the only natural consequence of a fully secular worldview: the attempt to reconcile a godless universe with a religious instinct that can't be erased. The divine order gets reassigned to the human mind, which is now the thing that creates all things anew. Metaphysical truth is then only a billion opinions which are all equally valid, hence everyone needs to be separated into ideological groups that vie for dominance. Individual responsibility is eschewed in favor of lived experience which now wholly determines your reality, so you can claim to be anything despite biological markers (I know some Marxists hate modern identity politics, but it is the natural progression of the same basic idea and it was de Beauvoir who already laid the foundation to this in 1949), and your circumstances are determined by external factors that exert influence on you.

Marxist feminism is just a different application of the same thing. The family is a prison designed by White men to subjugate women and exploit their labor, and has definitely nothing to do with the evolutionary predisposition to be carers and homemakers.

It's not that leftist mentality has no philosophy, it's that leftist philosophy has a one-track mind and is incoherent with actual discovery of truth.
 
Sounds like a Sensor perspective. Prioritising the status quo over positive future change which is always possible. Sensors generally uphold status quo over positive change.
Yes, thank you for you deep insight as always. It's only been 10 minutes since you insinuated your intellectual superiority with a highly relevant MBTI-centered rebuttal. First it was a problem with Te, now it's also unlikely to be intuitive without aligning with your political theory. I suppose if it were an INFJ saying these things, they couldn't actually be INFJ because reasons. At first I took you seriously, now it's just funny to see which goalpost you're going to move next to keep your cognitive dissonance at bay. It must be tough being a narcissist who has to congratulate himself constantly for his mere existence inside unverifiable, unfalsifiable labels.

pls explain like I'm five, because I am
This is something I hear from younger activists especially, but it ties with what I wrote earlier about metaphysical incoherence. It's the belief that wisdom is something that is produced in a specific era, so it can get outdated and must be reinvented to fit modern conditions. It's like when people call something "medieval" to imply that it's automatically wrong. Everything old is supposed to move with the world, not move the world.
 
I didn’t realise talking about MBTI on an INFJ forum would be so controversial. Ok, all types are the same. They think the same and have the same potential. Does that make you feel better? Lol. Denying the value in cognitive skills is a denial of virtue/potential. This demonstrates a lack of intelligence and/or ethics imo. It ignores the suffering of many and the false credit and praise of others. We are all different and the differences are important. We can only be judged by what we do, not our type, but what we do does correlate pretty well with type imo. Therefore type matters. To deny this is to deny truth. It is to choose a fantasy which satisfies the collective ego. It also denies insight into people and their motives and thoughts etc,, which affect us all. The collective personality is usually all that is focussed on, but we differ so much, that we cannot gain much insight with just a collective perspective. Each type has unique gifts and weaknesses, but they are not all equal. I think you know that but simply refuse to accept it. Don’t shoot the messenger.

Oh and it’s usually narcissists who call others by the same.
 
Yes, the risk of, the degree of, and the extent of the undesired consequences of—the real potential for damage resulting from making a given change—must be carefully considered, contrasted against, and compared with, existing systems and institutions that have already caused untold and uncountable amounts of human suffering today, yesterday, and for the hundreds, or even thousands, of years before that—and which will continue, unabated, each day going forward.

I would guess one’s position will depend on a wide variety of things, the biggest likely being where one stands before any change is made, and where one expects to stand after said change comes to pass. I suppose not being affected by those systems and institutions provides one the privilege of being able to not give a fuck, such that one would have the leisure to pursue whatever one wanted instead.

Cheers,
Ian
Many benefit from flawed organisations and definitely don’t give a fuck about the greater good. I definitely think possibly the biggest problem in todays world is the refusal to make value judgements about much of what people do outside of criminal acts. Jesus was all about exposing wrongdoing and bad people. Today we are all equal and anything goes, even though that is not true.
 
Well, what's your plan?

Hm...I am currently undecided on basically anything ;-) As you can see from my postings the whole topic is a littlebit complex. "Technically" I would know quite well what to do IMHO - but you know, if I write something down then the world might ache and writhe and the earth axis might change. Earth balances on my shoulders etc. pp.. Perhaps I should relax and just fart. There are enough others that will make sure that this world stays on its course and goes to hell, no matter if I fart or not. On the other hand if I stop balancing the world who knows what might happen. Its complicated
 
it ties with what I wrote earlier about metaphysical incoherence

I thought it might

It's the belief that wisdom is something that is produced in a specific era, so it can get outdated and must be reinvented to fit modern conditions. It's like when people call something "medieval" to imply that it's automatically wrong. Everything old is supposed to move with the world, not move the world.

Thanks, that helps clarify things in my brain.
I kind of assumed people understood (most of) this intuitively, but it turns out people don't think like me. Imagine that!
 
Sounds like a Sensor perspective. Prioritising the status quo over positive future change which is always possible. Sensors generally uphold status quo over positive change.

From this, it appears you have assigned N to progressivism and S to conservatism, which is suspect, to say the least.

That said, thinking @Sidis Coruscatis offers Sensor perspective removes any remaining doubt. You are absolutely daft.

Cheers,
Ian
 
It's the belief that wisdom is something that is produced in a specific era, so it can get outdated and must be reinvented to fit modern conditions.

I thought an essential aspect of wisdom is that it transcends time and place. If the time and situation have changed, and it is less applicable or meaningful, it wasn’t wisdom. Wisdom is why we say perennial wisdom traditions. Wisdom is evergreen.

Young’uns Talkin’ Smack,
Ian
 
I thought an essential aspect of wisdom is that it transcends time and place. If the time and situation have changed, and it is less applicable or meaningful, it wasn’t wisdom. Wisdom is why we say perennial wisdom traditions. Wisdom is evergreen.
You thought correctly. But to be honest, I used to be the same recalcitrant smart-ass (now I'm only the latter) who thought the entire world was wrong and needed to get on with the times. Now I know even the typical trite-sounding parental advice was true in some way, it was just never explained.

Ok, all types are the same. They think the same and have the same potential. Does that make you feel better?
It would make me feel better if you started arguing against something that I've actually said instead of going for the same strawman every time someone refuses your caste system, but we can't have everything.
 
It would make me feel better if you started arguing against something that I've actually said instead of going for the same strawman every time someone refuses your caste system, but we can't have everything.

(lol)
570.jpg
 
From this, it appears you have assigned N to progressivism and S to conservatism, which is suspect, to say the least.
Well INFJs are the type mostly likely to want and achieve radical change, and ISTJs are probably the least likely to do the same. That’s Ni versus Si primarily. So I’m not far off the mark. I have an ISTJ brother who is anti religion and all for LGBT rights but likes the British Royal family. So he is pretty conservative, but note the things he opposes are things which are fashionably opposed. He believes in the technocracy so gets a lot of his opinions from experts who are widely respected.
As an INFJ I oppose most established things. I think for myself.
 
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