[INFJ] Did anyone ever stumble across a complete plan to save the world?

Thanks all for all suggestions so far. I tried to look into the World Transformation Movement and failed to understand if it has a "core" so far, aka if it offers any real solution...well, I was busy with other things, so I did not have much time to inform myself about it.

Here a small interesting article I just found today:
https://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/what-leftists-believe-dennis-prager/

And here are some answers, I think this is very close to the truth and matches my experiences with "these people":
https://pwrmos.wordpress.com/

Now I am not saying that leftism is the only problem that we have, but it is a major, major one in the west. It contributes greatly to many of the main problems IMHO.
 
puzzledheart said:
Thanks all for all suggestions so far. I tried to look into the World Transformation Movement and failed to understand if it has a "core" so far, aka if it offers any real solution...well, I was busy with other things, so I did not have much time to inform myself about it.

Here a small interesting article I just found today:
https://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/what-leftists-believe-dennis-prager/

And here are some answers, I think this is very close to the truth and matches my experiences with "these people":
https://pwrmos.wordpress.com/

Now I am not saying that leftism is the only problem that we have, but it is a major, major one in the west. It contributes greatly to many of the main problems IMHO.
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You cay at be an INFJ following this twaddle. It’s a parody of the worst of the left and a self-serving superficial and highly flawed rhetoric which lacks depth and insight. There is no ‘left’ in western politics anymore. All there is are 2 shades of right, with right wing ideologies trying to push us further to the right which is the main cause of problems in western societies. Ever heard of Democratic pluralism? You know that system that gave us the greatest increase in living standards and equality for 30 years after the war. Why did it end? Cos fools like you set about it’s destruction due to greed. United we stand, divided we fall; and we have fallen.
 
puzzledheart said:
Now I am not saying that leftism is the only problem that we have, but it is a major, major one in the west. It contributes greatly to many of the main problems IMHO.
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the article uses an oft cited economic reality that women earn 78 cents for every dollar men make. the author goes on to use deductive reasoning to determine that if this were true then employers would hire women to cut costs. this is the problem with deductive reasoning, it relies on the "truth "of the underling assertions rather than looking at the data and determining the truth of the data.

the july 2022 department of labor report on wage and salary earnings tells a different story.

interestingly the gist of the a fore mentioned article is that the left lies because the lies serves the goal.

but it is based on a lie, that women do not earn 78 cents for every dollar the men make.

so riddle me this @puzzledheart , what are we to make of your motivations in posting this untruth, that you believe that the message that the left lies is more important than thw vs m.jpg
 
Work said:
the article uses an oft cited economic reality that women earn 78 cents for every dollar men make. the author goes on to use deductive reasoning to determine that if this were true then employers would hire women to cut costs. this is the problem with deductive reasoning, it relies on the "truth "of the underling assertions rather than looking at the data and determining the truth of the data.

the july 2022 department of labor report on wage and salary earnings tells a different story.

interestingly the gist of the a fore mentioned article is that the left lies because the lies serves the goal.

but it is based on a lie, that women do not earn 78 cents for every dollar the men make.

so riddle me this @puzzledheart , what are we to make of your motivations in posting this untruth, that you believe that the message that the left lies is more important than thView attachment 89245
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Yes the article is so biased and lacking in thorough and accurate statements it’s unreal. The source of its publication clearly suggests a right wing (money) agenda.
 
The only problem is seeing other people’s perspectives as a problem.

Oops, damn it...let me get back to you when I extricate my head from my ass.

Heh ;)
Ian
 
Enso said:
Nah everyone is wrong and you are right.
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If that could even be true, it sounds like a kind of perverse hell I have never considered. :eek:

I thought as I got older, my right-about-anything average score, all other things being equal, should rise.

Other things aren’t equal.

I tend to think I know myself better than I ever have before.

But that damned Ne is an insatiable beast. It demands more, it requires more.

So I bite off bigger chunks, and so remain ever the fool. It could be worse, I suppose. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Cheers,
Ian
 
Work said:
this is the problem with deductive reasoning, it relies on the "truth "of the underling assertions rather than looking at the data and determining the truth of the data.
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What is the truth of the data then? The page just restates the same old figures without actually explaining the math behind it. The reasoning is fine and it would be true if women were actually equal to men in work performance, which they are not. On average, they only:
  • Work less hours
  • Are less willing and able to take dangerous jobs that pay better
  • Are less competitive
  • Are less interested in highly technical jobs
  • Have much lower performance in physically demanding jobs
https://towardsdatascience.com/is-t...wage-gap-interactive-infographic-6051dff3a041
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-equality_paradox
https://boysvswomen.com
 
Sidis Coruscatis said:
What is the truth of the data then? The page just restates the same old figures without actually explaining the math behind it. The reasoning is fine and it would be true if women were actually equal to men in work performance, which they are not. On average, they only:
  • Work less hours
  • Are less willing and able to take dangerous jobs that pay better
  • Are less competitive
  • Are less interested in highly technical jobs
  • Have much lower performance in physically demanding jobs
https://towardsdatascience.com/is-t...wage-gap-interactive-infographic-6051dff3a041
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-equality_paradox
https://boysvswomen.com
Click to expand...
the point of the article is that the left lies to promote its agenda. that lying is their method of operation and therefore they cannot be trusted. you want to argue that woman are not as valuable as men economically in response to my pointing out that the left is using respected data to back up its points is a bit off the mark but is also consistent with arguments the right always uses when resisting reform. I am not arguing the gender pay gap issue, I am arguing that labeling the left as nefarious liars is endemic of the rights paranoid delusion that they are the righteous protectors of a free society.
 
The 'left' is very split and includes a lot of silly feminism and woke ideas. This is becuase many of the left are really economically right wing but culturally left, and thus are more interested in quotas and political correctness than real economic fairness. This confuses many. To suggest all the left is like this, and the right is morally superior and mostly seeks the truth is highly delusional. The right is mostly about preserving the status quo, and/or going more to the right based on simplistic ideology. The left historically has brought about most positive social change, and has been a champion for the oppressed working people (who mostly generate the wealth btw). But the left hardly exists now in the west.
 
Sidis Coruscatis said:
if women were actually equal to men in work performance, which they are not. On average, they only:
  • Work less hours
  • Are less willing and able to take dangerous jobs that pay better
  • Are less competitive
  • Are less interested in highly technical jobs
  • Have much lower performance in physically demanding jobs
Click to expand...

I'm curious. What makes these the attributes for good work performance? These same qualities could make someone an excellent asset and strong work performer from a different lens.

Just questioning the framework these fact are being presented within.
 
Work said:
the point of the article is that the left lies to promote its agenda. that lying is their method of operation and therefore they cannot be trusted. you want to argue that woman are not as valuable as men economically in response to my pointing out that the left is using respected data to back up its points is a bit off the mark but is also consistent with arguments the right always uses when resisting reform. I am not arguing the gender pay gap issue, I am arguing that labeling the left as nefarious liars is endemic of the rights paranoid delusion that they are the righteous protectors of a free society.
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Whether they lie is a question of semantics. It's almost certain that some of them do, but a lot of it is about half-truths and ignorance. That's not exclusive to leftists, though the general philosophical and metaphysical apathy stacked on top of it makes them a lot more dangerous in the long term. It's generally agreed upon what the excesses of right-wing thinking is: national and racial supremacy. But nobody is really talking about defining the pathology of the left; why not equity? Maybe because it sounds a lot warmer and friendlier on surface.

The problem of the Left is that it's too creative, that's why people high in openness flock to that side. But the way creativity works is that for every truly brilliant idea for a change, you get a thousand really stupid ideas that could kill you. Somebody had to eat all those strange berries before people discovered they're poisonous.

In relation to the topic, it's the same with proposing plans that are supposed to save the planet, whatever that means. It's the perfect excuse to establish central planning committees who will tell you that they know what is happening, they know how to fix it, and they also know better than you and you have to do everything they tell you or else you get an apocalypse. There's only one problem: nobody intelligent enough to actually understand the complexity and ramifications of these issues exists. Not to mention that these centralized institutions are often extremely dysfunctional and according to testimonies from their former members, proposals are often amended and signed not by the properly qualified, but by whoever has the time to do that at the moment.

Elder said:
I'm curious. What makes these the attributes for good work performance? These same qualities could make someone an excellent asset and strong work performer from a different lens.
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They lead to more output, both in terms of production and raw energy expenditure in sports for example. I think the opposite qualities are valuable, which is why women are over-represented in fields that are socially oriented and tactful like services, clerical jobs, kindergarten education, nursing, counseling etc.
 
While the notions 'truth' and 'falsehood' have a semantical aspect, there can still be broad agreements among individuals about what is accepted as truth and what is accepted as false. In the above cited article the notion that women earn less then men in the US is regarded as a generally accepted falsehood while the economic report from the US Department of Labor asserts that it is statistically true that women earn less then men.

However lying, while an aspect of language and therefore does deal in semantics, is not "a question of semantics". Lying is knowingly presenting an accepted falsehood as truth. That is how the first article presents it. Obscuring this fact with a generalization approximating everyone lies in no way makes it ok to point to a segment of the political discourse and say they employ lies to get what they want.
 
SlowUpTake said:
Obscuring this fact with a generalization approximating everyone lies in no way makes it ok to point to a segment of the political discourse and say they employ lies to get what they want.
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I'm not obscuring anything and I wasn't even talking about that article specifically. Still, when someone says "the left is lying about the wage gap," I take that to mean they're lying about the implications of the fact, not that the statistical fact itself does not exist. I assume that precisely because the statistic is very easy to verify.
 
Sidis Coruscatis said:
There's only one problem: nobody intelligent enough to actually understand the complexity and ramifications of these issues exists. Not to mention that these centralized institutions are often extremely dysfunctional and according to testimonies from their former members, proposals are often amended and signed not by the properly qualified, but by whoever has the time to do that at the moment.
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Regarding the first sentence, yes and this is exactly why they are planning the way they are planning, for example, someone who is dead or who is not born does not consume any resources. Voila! So you see it is possible to solve these problems without getting entangled in overcomplexity and without even having to deal with the theoretical impossibility to solve these questions. You simply pick a surefire solution which circumvents the overcomplexity problem entirely. The (probably) psychopaths in charge dont seem to have a problem with that and are not hindered by "moral issues", at least thats how it currently looks like.

Or, as another example, if you put (the remaining) people in centrally controlled, automated megacities, aka artificial enviroments which you can 100% control with "appropriate technical measures", aka full scale surveillance, social credit, centralized waste processing and so on you have full control over their environmental impact. You simply completely keep them out of nature. As long as you are able to also keep the waste out of nature, including air pollution or at least limit air pollution to such low figures that it does not really have significant impact on nature - CO2 is extremely important for plants btw and we are at an all time low historically, aka seen on the entire timescale, plants want much higher CO2 levels then there currently are - nature WILL "repair" itself. You dont have to do ANYTHING except keeping humans and their waste out of nature, oh and of course produce food "outside of nature", aka in the same megacities, for example vertical hydroponic gardens etc..

So thats one solution.

The other is to solve the problems which cannot be solved in the above mentioned way by using machine learning and computers etc.. Thats why they are currently building Skynet, 5G and all the surveillance and control crap. So they automatize what can be automatized and "simply" delegate the problems which can be delegated to machines to machines.I suggest you watch this
https://rumble.com/v1fim1g-yes.-big...t.-ai-machine-learning.html?mref=6zof&mrefc=2

The remaining problems which cannot be solved by both methods (given that mankind is still in control at that point and the machines did not yet take over, this btw will not happen for "supernatural reasons" and now you can have a good laugh as you will most likely think that this is a fairytale ;-)) will still need manpower, but only a relatively small "manpower-force" will be needed. Basically engineers keeping the machine running and programmed etc. and defining the basic parameters for the machine etc., a few bureaucrats to solve complex matters, police, firefighters etc. etc..

So dont underestimate "them" - they will most likely solve the most pressing problems, for example (the real) environmental problems, but it will probably be connected with mass murder (see the useless "vaccination", although we do not know yet what exactly the "vaccination" is supposed to be for, aka if it is direct mass murder or for example "just" sterilization, or both, or if it is something different, for example a track and trace system, that it is just a front to introduce a total surveillance and social credit system is at least clear by now) and all this will probably lead to a total dystopia. I fear that the bible will once more be right - soon, it might very well be possible that nobody can buy or sell unless he has the mark.

Oh and btw I dont think that mankind will reach the "robotics stage" outlined in the above mentioned A.I. video, this will be prevented "from above" as this does not serve the purpose of mankind. Well, I should be more precise, as soon as robotics potentially starts to interfere with the purpose of man, this will be prevented. For example mankind "should have" annihilated itself with nuclear weapons I dont know how many times by now, each time it was prevented by a coincidence. Each and every time. Mathematically extremely unlikely IMHO. But of course thats no proof of supernatural intervention. It never is. And thats a good thing. So you keep your free will.
 
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I think Te users struggle to solve complex problems because they mainly focus on external factors and not the underlying ones. You can only ‘deconstruct complexity’ by starting from the bottom up, based on sound principles. Te solutions are more cures as opposed to preventions (Ti)
 
Work said:
what, exactly, does this mean?
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The tendency to view existent institutions, traditions, and society itself as arbitrary constructs that you can rebuild like Legos without concern for their origin and evolution, or dismissing them as simply something intentionally malevolent whenever a possible negative consequence of those systems arises. Therefore, the tendency to operate on a "new = better" mindset that goes hand-in-hand with moral relativism and principles that have an expiration date set to the start of the next social experiment. Again, it's not always unwarranted, but the damage these gung-ho utopian saviors can cause is immense.
 
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