did God create the universum (Stephen Hawking)

sandra_b said:
Okay, I love the shit out of Stephen Hawking and a lot of this is already familiar to me. Yes, when matter is created so is anti-matter. Based on this it would seem that everything cancels itself out and that everything IS an illusion. But who's illusion is it?

The biggest problem I have is that there is more matter than anti-matter in the universe, and if that is the case then I find myself wondering where the rest of the anti-matter is. Following that, I wonder if there is something outside of the universe where the remainder of the anti-matter is? Is the fact that there is more matter than anti-matter the reason we are able to exist and the reason we are able to be conscious? Perhaps this is where God comes into question. The universe is not perfect. Perfection doesn't exist and if perfection did exist then nothing else would.

[MENTION=1591]Morgain[/MENTION]

I find your questions interesting- particularly the one about being "one" and that perhaps we are all part of one bigger system/being/machine. To go back to the question "Does God exist?" I find myself wondering then if we are all part of what people call God. Perhaps the entire universe, everything that exists within and without it is God. We are all the same, part of one entity, reacting and interacting with each other and our environment in order to propel something greater than ourselves.

Or perhaps not.
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You brilliant Canadian! Have you been reading Margaret Atwood? (a renowned pantheist-feminist and Canadian author) ?

If not, do it. If you can handle science fiction (or as she calls it speculative fiction) I would recommend "Oryx and Crake."
 
MiniHands said:
You brilliant Canadian! Have you been reading Margaret Atwood? (a renowned pantheist-feminist and Canadian author) ?

If not, do it. If you can handle science fiction (or as she calls it speculative fiction) I would recommend "Oryx and Crake."
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I have never read anything that she's written before. Perhaps I should change that.
 
sigh. I've posted now three and a half times on this thread and I either sound condescending or insincere in all my posts. I don't like this. Perhaps I'll go back to the INTP forum and hide in a cave for a while until I can determine whether I am arrogant and insincere or whether I simply appear that way. And then figure out why and how to act.
 
MiniHands said:
That dream bit seems a bit Descartes-esque. "I think therefore I am" and all that. Actually I think that line of thinking lends itself more to solipsism than dualism. I lean towards this but have to struggle against it because they say solipsism is bad.

The part about being "one" have you looked into pantheism? Interesting notion. I think tao and holism and pantheism kind of have a lot in common. I could see Jesus being sort of taoist too, I never really considered that. :)
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I'm not a fan of theism. Collective consciousness is a preferred term.
 
MiniHands said:
sigh. I've posted now three and a half times on this thread and I either sound condescending or insincere in all my posts. I don't like this. Perhaps I'll go back to the INTP forum and hide in a cave for a while until I can determine whether I am arrogant and insincere or whether I simply appear that way. And then figure out why and how to act.
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Chill out. Relax.
 
undeniably understandable, unperson.

About theism that is.
 
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There is a Ding an Sich hiding in this thread
 
Billy said:
As for the point of the universe, well... there is no point. It exists regardless of us putting a point to it or not.
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How can you conclude that all existence is purposeless?

Do you have no ability to believe otherwise?
 
myself said:
How can you conclude that all existence is purposeless?

Do you have no ability to believe otherwise?
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Nothing in nature points to a grand design. Be that as it may, I create my own purpose, I'm an existentialist. I don't need someone or some thing to make it for me. As to your question, well I see faith as a form of mental illness or extremism.
 
muir said:
We are hugely powerful and able to create our own realities
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That sounds like something from the book "The Secret" which I think is a retarded book. What about starving kids in Africa born with AIDS? Can they create their own reality?
 
chulo said:
That sounds like something from the book "The Secret" which I think is a retarded book. What about starving kids in Africa born with AIDS? Can they create their own reality?
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Then make your purpose to help starving kids in Africa with AIDS.
 
Morgain said:
I just saw a documentary about Stephen Hawking's newest discovery: did God create the universe?

He discovered that the universe, before the big bang, was a black hole. he also discovered that a black hole doesn't only absorb all matter and even light, but also time. This means that inside a black hole, time stands still, time does not exist.

If that is true, questions like "who created the universe" or "what caused the creation of the universe" are non-sensical. It is like asking where is the edge of the earth. Since the earth is spherical it doesn't has an edge. An event can only have a cause when time exist. Since time did not exist before the big bang, nothing could have caused the big bang, because nothing happened before the big bang.

besides this he also discovered the answer to "where does matter comes from". Matter that appears out of nothing is not something that we are familiar with in our daily lives. But on the subatomic level, it does happen. Subatomic particles can appear out of nothing and disappear again. But a particle doesn't just appear out of nothing. When it appears also something else appears: anti-matter, the opposite of matter. It is like when you built a mountain of sand. To built a mountain you need to take sand from an other place and eventually you are not only making a mountain but also a hole.
So if matter is created also anti-matter is created and when you add them up you are left with nothing. That is how matter is created out of nothing. For me this means that matter/the universe/life is just an illusion.

I think all this is really fascinating and pops up more questions. If time isn't as solid as we experience it (a black hole can make time go slower and eventually stop), then what the hell is time and is our life really linear or can it be that everything happens at the same time.

and even though he proved that you don't need a god to create the universe, I can't stop but wonder "what is the purpose of the universe, why did it start, will it ever end? how many universes are there, ...?
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I don't know shit about quantum physics which makes me judgmental/skeptical towards Stephen Hawking. Most of the stuff he says sounds like theory but he presents it like it's fact. It can be misleading for people who take what he says and consider it proven science.

I still however love to philosophize about life, cosmetology, quantum physics, and spirituality. So thanks for being the OP it was fun reading peoples ideas. I don't have any beliefs but I sometimes think we live so we can temporarily become aware of ourselves. The opportunity cost of this temporary awareness is a subtle emptiness that never leaves. Our life is a temporary chance to look at ourselves through other people, animals, plants, and experiences. Once our life is over we become one with ourselves again and enter a more peaceful state of consciousness.

Also sometimes I think that planet earth itself might have a consciousness and humans are just a bacteria-like growth. We grow on the surface of the earth in patterns, we damage the earth, and we can't control ourselves. You know how humans fighting bacteria will develop a flu to make themselves uninhabitable to the bacteria???... The earth is essentially doing the same thing with global warming. It senses a harmful presence, so it's heating up to get rid of us. Just food for thought.
 
MiniHands said:
Then make your purpose to help starving kids in Africa with AIDS.
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You missed my point. I was saying that "The Secret" is bullshit because no matter how positive a starving kid with AIDS thinks, he will still die young and miserable. It is good to practice positive thinking but positive thinking doesn't have magical powers like some of those self-help books suggest.
 
chulo said:
You missed my point. I was saying that "The Secret" is bullshit because no matter how positive a starving kid with AIDS thinks, he will still die young and miserable.
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No I don't think I missed your point at all.

Ultimately all you can do is what you can do. Existentialism isn't really about positive thinking. It's about dealing with the absurdity of life and constructing a moral code that you can live by.

"The Secret" is pretty stupid though.
 
chulo said:
You missed my point. I was saying that "The Secret" is bullshit because no matter how positive a starving kid with AIDS thinks, he will still die young and miserable. It is good to practice positive thinking but positive thinking doesn't have magical powers like some of those self-help books suggest.
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Yes, that logic is why the secret is bullshit. It's no secret, however, that thoughts are powerful. Tell yourself you're ugly or retarded long enough and you believe it, even if you're really not. I did those things. Thoughts also have the power to heal you (not in the sense of physical injuries suddenly getting better), think positive and get positive results. When you don't go into something thinking you've failed, it ends up a lot better. Self-fulfilling prophecies, and all.

The Secret is like that 100th monkey shit. When the hundredth monkey learned to wash her coconuts, all the others could do the same. Right.

To recap: I agree, positive thinking good, The Secret retarded.
 
Billy said:
Nothing in nature points to a grand design. Be that as it may, I create my own purpose, I'm an existentialist. I don't need someone or some thing to make it for me. As to your question, well I see faith as a form of mental illness or extremism.
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Nothing points to grand design
or
everything points to grand design.

How can ANY purpose be found in a purposeless universe?

Saying that faith is a form of mental illness or extremism is so conveniently dismissive...

But in all honesty, how is your personal view of reality not faith based?

Certainly, we all must choose to believe in something.

Do you truly believe nothing in the universe matters except for what you want to do?
 
Brain.....Hurts.....
 

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