Did Jesus commit suicide?

ruji said:
WTF is dis shit?
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According to Google...

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

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Enjoy! Merry Kithmas. :3
 
Blood sacrifice has always bothered me. Same too with the drinking of the blood of Christ. Not a fan of it. Seems satanist to me. When I asked if Jesus killed himself I was looking at the situation straight forward. He knew he would die by his actions.

Now one could argue that a man who is told not to drink or eat certain things for they will surely kill you is doing harm and is knowing that he is by continuing to do so.

I can assume that most people who were killed back then were some kind of criminal and knew full well the law and where they would end up if they broke it.
Jesus would have ended up there eventually. He was flaunting his power to break their law and to teach others his law. If you would like to die try it yourself. Plenty of opportunities out there today to prove my point.

His resurrection is the amazing part of the story. Without it he was just another man who died on a cross.

You have to obtain faith. Churches I'm afraid have gotten into the way of Jesus's message. And put themselves between you and god.
Why allow another to prejudge you. One must learn their lessons in this world.
Mankind keeps up the same struggle which tells me the human race is insane. Only a god can save us. His thoughts can calm the spirit of man. Look within your heart if you seek him. He is out in this world and within you in it. You your self have everything you need to listen for him. Be still clear the mind of restless thought. And feel the spirit fill you. It takes time but it comes.

I think Jesus knew he would die for his actions. Look where his actions have taken people. The perversion of his words have killed millions of people. How did mankind come to the conclusion to kill in his name? When Jesus's actions always showed peace and love was the way. Mankind is mad.
 
efromm said:

So why buck the system. Piss off a whole bunch of people. And eventually get nailed to a cross? When you know that that is exactly what will happen to you. But you do it anyway? What is it you call that? It sounds like suicide to me. We have suicide by cop. I give you suicide by crucifixion....

Now I know the whole story. I heard it all the time at church. It just never added up for me. Other people were getting crucified. It was no secret. The bible admits this much. From the way I see it, it's suicide. Some are going to get angry that I even said it. Or even thought it. But I still wonder if he wanted to end it.​
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It's only suicide if you completely and utterly end your life. Since his intentions were to save the sins of humanity and was later seen resurrected in the following gospels, it is not. You also have to notice why a lamb had to be sacrificed to God in the old testament of the bible and the fall of Adam and Eve in the beginning of the christian bible
 
efromm said:
Blood sacrifice has always bothered me. Same too with the drinking of the blood of Christ. Not a fan of it. Seems satanist to me. When I asked if Jesus killed himself I was looking at the situation straight forward. He knew he would die by his actions.

Now one could argue that a man who is told not to drink or eat certain things for they will surely kill you is doing harm and is knowing that he is by continuing to do so.

I can assume that most people who were killed back then were some kind of criminal and knew full well the law and where they would end up if they broke it.
Jesus would have ended up there eventually. He was flaunting his power to break their law and to teach others his law. If you would like to die try it yourself. Plenty of opportunities out there today to prove my point.

His resurrection is the amazing part of the story. Without it he was just another man who died on a cross.

You have to obtain faith. Churches I'm afraid have gotten into the way of Jesus's message. And put themselves between you and god.
Why allow another to prejudge you. One must learn their lessons in this world.
Mankind keeps up the same struggle which tells me the human race is insane. Only a god can save us. His thoughts can calm the spirit of man. Look within your heart if you seek him. He is out in this world and within you in it. You your self have everything you need to listen for him. Be still clear the mind of restless thought. And feel the spirit fill you. It takes time but it comes.

I think Jesus knew he would die for his actions. Look where his actions have taken people. The perversion of his words have killed millions of people. How did mankind come to the conclusion to kill in his name? When Jesus's actions always showed peace and love was the way. Mankind is mad.
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In terms of accepting that he would be crucified, I think it is more about accepting consequences and overcoming them for the sake of his love, than about simply seeking the consequences (crucifixion).

In terms of sacrifice, to nay-say it's importance is to nay-say the concept of justice. When there is no justice, there is only injustice. An offense is magnified by the dignity of the person it is committed against: it is worse if you slap a parent's face, than that of a sibling. Sin is somewhat infinite an offense, on account of being against an infinite good. A just reparation involves an infinite price, and that implies that only God can settle the debt of sin with God. His perfect mercy is that he does it with perfect justice on our behalf.

Probably... no definitely Christ's death was excessive. Aquinas writes that but a single drop of Christ's blood, being of divine value is sufficient to pay the debt of all men for all time.

By why blood, and why such an excessive sacrifice on the cross? The smallest nod of reverence and love towards the divinity by Christ would suffice to supply for every human irreverence and hatred of God.

The manner of Christ's sacrifice was not to suit to whom it was offered, but for whom he offered it. The impious, hardened dwellers of the world don't understand the subtleties of a the divine will described by prophets and saints. While a slow sinner might not understand to cost of humility, even the gladiator understand the cost of his own blood. .... I doubt that many Romans, or Hebrews had seen such a brutalised convict being led to crucifixion, and to those who understood his intent, there could be no doubt that this was sacrifice. It's totality of personal cost to Christ is representative of his totality of willingness and extent of his love.

Augustine writes that holy communion is not ordinary food, which is incorporated into our bodies, but rather it is a food which incorporates us into him: he is not broken down into pieces/dismembered, but what separates us from him is broken down. That this is achieved through his body and blood is not the maiming of cannibalism, but by receiving the symbol of his sacrifice and love... by understanding that our spiritual livelihood and nourishment is solely the sacrifice and love of Christ.
 
Put on your thinking caps people...
 
efromm said:
Blood sacrifice has always bothered me. Same too with the drinking of the blood of Christ. Not a fan of it. Seems satanist to me. When I asked if Jesus killed himself I was looking at the situation straight forward. He knew he would die by his actions.

Now one could argue that a man who is told not to drink or eat certain things for they will surely kill you is doing harm and is knowing that he is by continuing to do so.

I can assume that most people who were killed back then were some kind of criminal and knew full well the law and where they would end up if they broke it.
Jesus would have ended up there eventually. He was flaunting his power to break their law and to teach others his law. If you would like to die try it yourself. Plenty of opportunities out there today to prove my point.

His resurrection is the amazing part of the story. Without it he was just another man who died on a cross.

You have to obtain faith. Churches I'm afraid have gotten into the way of Jesus's message. And put themselves between you and god.
Why allow another to prejudge you. One must learn their lessons in this world.
Mankind keeps up the same struggle which tells me the human race is insane. Only a god can save us. His thoughts can calm the spirit of man. Look within your heart if you seek him. He is out in this world and within you in it. You your self have everything you need to listen for him. Be still clear the mind of restless thought. And feel the spirit fill you. It takes time but it comes.

I think Jesus knew he would die for his actions. Look where his actions have taken people. The perversion of his words have killed millions of people. How did mankind come to the conclusion to kill in his name? When Jesus's actions always showed peace and love was the way. Mankind is mad.
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Lol, if they actually ate bread and drank christ that would be sickly disgusting. Rather, He used or uses many symbolic messages to prove his representation for them. In the old testament of the chrstian bible, chosen lambs were sacrificed as a waiver for sin. That was before Christ "came to earth". They had to follow all these laws for sin including praise offering and burnt offering. Stuff like that. However when He dies and then resurrects its a waiver for sin. Otherwise, people are damned to Hades i guess idk somewhere underneath us. A lot of christians say "christ paid the price for your sin by dying on the cross". Following the christian morality, Christ took on sin for all of humanity by dying according to christian old testament law.
 
cptawesome said:
Lol, if they actually ate bread and drank christ that would be sickly disgusting. Rather, He used or uses many symbolic messages to prove his representation for them. In the old testament of the chrstian bible, chosen lambs were sacrificed as a waiver for sin. That was before Christ "came to earth". They had to follow all these laws for sin including praise offering and burnt offering. Stuff like that. However when He dies and then resurrects its a waiver for sin. Otherwise, people are damned to Hades i guess idk somewhere underneath us. A lot of christians say "christ paid the price for your sin by dying on the cross". Following the christian morality, Christ took on sin for all of humanity by dying according to christian old testament law.
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I understand this I was for 18 years a practicing believing Mormon. Know all about the sacrifice of Christ. War in heaven biblical teachings etc. I've decided to look at it as a non believer. Straight on.
Without faith, he was another man who was crucified for his beliefs. It does not take very long for people to embellish the truth after some time goes by.

I'm more alarmed by the church that came after him. And the killings done in his name. As far as I can tell true believers would never kill. They have no need for war. Or their bodies. They know that Christ protects them from either side of the veil. Death is just a transition from one state of consciousness to another.

There is no need for wars. Humanity needs to grow the fuck up. Believe what you will but do no harm. If the romans and Jews were true believers of their beliefs they would not have to kill you to convince you that they believe. They would convince you by matching their words to action. They would have released their fear based beliefs.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
In terms of accepting that he would be crucified, I think it is more about accepting consequences and overcoming them for the sake of his love, than about simply seeking the consequences (crucifixion).

In terms of sacrifice, to nay-say it's importance is to nay-say the concept of justice. When there is no justice, there is only injustice. An offense is magnified by the dignity of the person it is committed against: it is worse if you slap a parent's face, than that of a sibling. Sin is somewhat infinite an offense, on account of being against an infinite good. A just reparation involves an infinite price, and that implies that only God can settle the debt of sin with God. His perfect mercy is that he does it with perfect justice on our behalf.

Probably... no definitely Christ's death was excessive. Aquinas writes that but a single drop of Christ's blood, being of divine value is sufficient to pay the debt of all men for all time.

By why blood, and why such an excessive sacrifice on the cross? The smallest nod of reverence and love towards the divinity by Christ would suffice to supply for every human irreverence and hatred of God.

The manner of Christ's sacrifice was not to suit to whom it was offered, but for whom he offered it. The impious, hardened dwellers of the world don't understand the subtleties of a the divine will described by prophets and saints. While a slow sinner might not understand to cost of humility, even the gladiator understand the cost of his own blood. .... I doubt that many Romans, or Hebrews had seen such a brutalised convict being led to crucifixion, and to those who understood his intent, there could be no doubt that this was sacrifice. It's totality of personal cost to Christ is representative of his totality of willingness and extent of his love.

Augustine writes that holy communion is not ordinary food, which is incorporated into our bodies, but rather it is a food which incorporates us into him: he is not broken down into pieces/dismembered, but what separates us from him is broken down. That this is achieved through his body and blood is not the maiming of cannibalism, but by receiving the symbol of his sacrifice and love... by understanding that our spiritual livelihood and nourishment is solely the sacrifice and love of Christ.
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Beautiful post. I admire your writing and consciousness.
 
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efromm said:
I understand this I was for 18 years a practicing believing Mormon. Know all about the sacrifice of Christ. War in heaven biblical teachings etc. I've decided to look at it as a non believer. Straight on.
Without faith, he was another man who was crucified for his beliefs. It does not take very long for people to embellish the truth after some time goes by.

I'm more alarmed by the church that came after him. And the killings done in his name. As far as I can tell true believers would never kill. They have no need for war. Or their bodies. They know that Christ protects them from either side of the veil. Death is just a transition from one state of consciousness to another.

There is no need for wars. Humanity needs to grow the fuck up. Believe what you will but do no harm. If the romans and Jews were true believers of their beliefs they would not have to kill you to convince you that they believe. They would convince you by matching their words to action. They would have released their fear based beliefs.
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Oh so we're playing devil's advocate. So the problem is whether people want to apply their beliefs to everyone or be liberal. In reality, disregarding Jesus as a formulation of God, he did in fact commit suicide as a man. He was carrying the sins of the world but viewing like a pharisee, he was a troublemaker. So yeah people caught on even while he was on the earth. Now believiing that Jesus was the son of God and was a man at the same time is up to you. In roman times i don't think every man was crucified for beliefs rather for being thieves and "regular" outlaws. Jesus didn't do anything wrong to the Romans. What if you look at it differently, the Romans murdured Jesus?
 
cptawesome said:
Oh so we're playing devil's advocate. So the problem is whether people want to apply their beliefs to everyone or be liberal. In reality, disregarding Jesus as a formulation of God, he did in fact commit suicide as a man. He was carrying the sins of the world but viewing like a pharisee, he was a troublemaker. So yeah people caught on even while he was on the earth. Now believiing that Jesus was the son of God and was a man at the same time is up to you. In roman times i don't think every man was crucified for beliefs rather for being thieves and "regular" outlaws. Jesus didn't do anything wrong to the Romans. What if you look at it differently, the Romans murdured Jesus?
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The Romans and Jews at the time killed him. And then the Romans took his teachings and made the Catholic Church. Which in turn persecuted people for non compliance. Which is an interesting turn of irony. They kill Jesus for noncompliance then take it further by exploiting his name and make, a world wide empire from his murder for profit.

I have no philosophical problems with Jesus just his fan club of hypocrites.
 
efromm said:
The Romans and Jews at the time killed him. And then the Romans took his teachings and made the Catholic Church. Which in turn persecuted people for non compliance. Which is an interesting turn of irony. They kill Jesus for noncompliance then take it further by exploiting his name and make, a world wide empire from his murder for profit.

I have no philosophical problems with Jesus just his fan club of hypocrites.
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I agree you can have perfect parents but the worst children.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
In terms of accepting that he would be crucified, I think it is more about accepting consequences and overcoming them for the sake of his love, than about simply seeking the consequences (crucifixion).

In terms of sacrifice, to nay-say it's importance is to nay-say the concept of justice. When there is no justice, there is only injustice. An offense is magnified by the dignity of the person it is committed against: it is worse if you slap a parent's face, than that of a sibling. Sin is somewhat infinite an offense, on account of being against an infinite good. A just reparation involves an infinite price, and that implies that only God can settle the debt of sin with God. His perfect mercy is that he does it with perfect justice on our behalf.

Probably... no definitely Christ's death was excessive. Aquinas writes that but a single drop of Christ's blood, being of divine value is sufficient to pay the debt of all men for all time.

By why blood, and why such an excessive sacrifice on the cross? The smallest nod of reverence and love towards the divinity by Christ would suffice to supply for every human irreverence and hatred of God.

The manner of Christ's sacrifice was not to suit to whom it was offered, but for whom he offered it. The impious, hardened dwellers of the world don't understand the subtleties of a the divine will described by prophets and saints. While a slow sinner might not understand to cost of humility, even the gladiator understand the cost of his own blood. .... I doubt that many Romans, or Hebrews had seen such a brutalised convict being led to crucifixion, and to those who understood his intent, there could be no doubt that this was sacrifice. It's totality of personal cost to Christ is representative of his totality of willingness and extent of his love.

Augustine writes that holy communion is not ordinary food, which is incorporated into our bodies, but rather it is a food which incorporates us into him: he is not broken down into pieces/dismembered, but what separates us from him is broken down. That this is achieved through his body and blood is not the maiming of cannibalism, but by receiving the symbol of his sacrifice and love... by understanding that our spiritual livelihood and nourishment is solely the sacrifice and love of Christ.
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Brilliant!
 
efromm said:

So why buck the system. Piss off a whole bunch of people. And eventually get nailed to a cross? When you know that that is exactly what will happen to you. But you do it anyway? What is it you call that? It sounds like suicide to me. We have suicide by cop. I give you suicide by crucifixion....

Now I know the whole story. I heard it all the time at church. It just never added up for me. Other people were getting crucified. It was no secret. The bible admits this much. From the way I see it, it's suicide. Some are going to get angry that I even said it. Or even thought it. But I still wonder if he wanted to end it.​
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Yes, I guess he did. XD

I never thought of it that way before. However, He did do it to restore our relationship with the Creator, and He did come back after, so there is that to consider.

I mean, really he was paying a debt that we owed. In the words of my favourite waiter, "The bill always comes due." ~ Mordo (Dr. Strange)

He wasn't doing it because he was fed up with life or anything like that. He actually was hoping for another way. Heck, he basically prayed, "I know this was the plan and all, but are you sure there's no other way?" So I'm not sure that the connotations that go with the word fit, but I guess the word is technically correct.
 
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Jeffrei said:
Yes, I guess he did. XD

I never thought of it that way before. However, He did do it to restore our relationship with the Creator, and He did come back after, so there is that to consider.

I mean, really he was paying a debt that we owed. In the words of my favourite waiter, "The bill always comes due." ~ Mordo (Dr. Strange)

He wasn't doing it because he was fed up with life or anything like that. He actually was hoping for another way. Heck, he basically prayed, "I know this was the plan and all, but are you sure there's no other way?" So I'm not sure that the connotations that go with the word fit, but I guess the word is technically correct.
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I don't think God has any skin in this game on earth. He can't. If he fixed even one thing we think is wrong everything would change and become corrupted even more. It's up to us to raise ourselves and behave. Man always wants some benevolent super being to save him from himself. But God cannot interfere he's merely watching the show. Like a scientist.
 
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