Do you experiment with drugs?

neko said:
This is probably one of the most surprising things about you, to be honest..
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Haha, I know ^^ I think I was at a point in my life where perhaps I just needed to experiment a bit, I don't know.

I also used to be a smoker and I've been drunk probably over 1'000 times. :p
 
neko said:
Lololol how is that even neko?!

I was surrounded by police cause they thought I was trying to steal it or something :tearsofjoy:
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lol

I dunno, it just is. You have to take my word for it, dude, I'm the expert on this archetype now.

Sat on a tractor, in the middle of a field. Sat on a tractor, in the middle of a field.
giphy.gif

So neko :sunglasses:
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
lol

I dunno, it just is. You have to take my word for it, dude, I'm the expert on this archetype now.

Sat on a tractor, in the middle of a field. Sat on a tractor, in the middle of a field.
giphy.gif

So neko :sunglasses:
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Hahahhhahahha
I will take your word, sir.
 
Skarekrow said:
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That chart is absolute nonsense, benzos are now considered the absolute worst.
It also doesn't make any distinction between individuals.
A good example of this is salt intake, so the salt hysteria comes from a study done on Indigenous people in the Amazones.
However, about 30% of the population depending on genes get a reduction in blood pressure from salt.
According to a bioinformatician I talked to about this, it's however become taboo to say salt can be good.
Have speculated whether increase in asthma is related to not enough salt as it has to do with mucus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome

Look at that shit!

Ban everything based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene
People are insane if they think this improves anything or helps, and that THC/CBD/LSD/Psilocybin/Muscarine/Mescalin and so on is "experimental" and less safe.
Than fucking synthetic chemicals that use benzene which is really fucking toxic to the nervous system.

Sorry for edits, but know one guy that had his life ruined by playing with these things at University, and he was studying chemistry; might have thought otherwise if he studied more biology. He talked about having snowy vision with green dots. "What's the problem, it has carbon chains and is therefor organic chemistry!".
 
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Ifur said:
That chart is absolute nonsense, benzos are now considered the absolute worst.
It also doesn't make any distinction between individuals.
A good example of this is salt intake, so the salt hysteria comes from a study done on Indigenous people in the Amazones.
However, about 30% of the population depending on genes get a reduction in blood pressure from salt.
According to a bioinformatician I talked to about this, it's however become taboo to say salt can be good.
Have speculated whether increase in asthma is related to not enough salt as it has to do with mucus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome

Look at that shit!

Ban everything based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene
People are insane if they think this improves anything or helps, and that THC/CBD/LSD/Psilocybin/Muscarine/Mescalin and so on is "experimental" and less safe.
Than fucking synthetic chemicals that use benzene which is really fucking toxic to the nervous system.

Sorry for edits, but know one guy that had his life ruined by playing with these things at University, and he was studying chemistry; might have thought otherwise if he studied more biology. He talked about having snowy vision with green dots. "What's the problem, it has carbon chains and is therefor organic chemistry!".
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you
are very passionate about benzos
 
neko said:
you
are very passionate about benzos
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I've seen what it's done to a party going teenager that mostly did for being obsessed about a girl.
Not the most charming bloke, perhaps even punch able. Even pushed over an autistic kid for screwing up for him trying to pick up a girl.

Benzos did not put him on a path to a better future, I'm passionate against Benzo; all it does it creating a steady supply of patients.
 
Ifur said:
I've seen what it's done to a party going teenager that mostly did for being obsessed about a girl.
Not the most charming bloke, perhaps even punch able. Even pushed over an autistic kid for screwing up for him trying to pick up a girl.

Benzos did not put him on a path to a better future, I'm passionate against Benzo; all it does it creating a steady supply of patients.
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that's pretty messed up. :-/
i have to take benzos every night to sleep.. [PTSD, night terrors, etc]
I know they're not great for my body but it's the only way i can sleep.
 
neko said:
that's pretty messed up. :-/
i have to take benzos every night to sleep.. [PTSD, night terrors, etc]
I know they're not great for my body but it's the only way i can sleep.
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Fly Agaric has been used against winter depression and getting drowsy with greater effect than camomille tea.
Others in this thread has pointed out quite a lot of natural plants with strong effects.
Amanita Muscaria also has muscarine that among other things activate the immune system.
Not that many years ago a pharmaceutical company finally managed to synthesise muscarine and could patent.
Albeit research show it's not as effective as the natural alternative from Amanita Muscaria, it's been made illegal in a few countries.
Up until recently Amanita Muscaria was legal in all countries with the exception of Sweden and Netherlands.

Yeah, it's pretty much that fucked up. And doctors can get it trouble for "alternatives", and we are then talking about the natural sources.
Not the synthetic alternatives backed by companies.

So a few cultural references for you, alice in wonderland is Amanita Muscaria, the two most active ingredients is muscarine and ibotenic acid. No fatalaties have ever been recorded among adults. And the likely reason for it being a bit dangerous to children, is that muscarine has almost opposite effect of nicotine and two receptors are named after them. Muscarinic and Nicotinic receptors, so many people hate nicotine while having a fever. And it does something with the parasympathetic, so yeah, kids... Ibotenic acid is more related to dopamine receptors or some such and whatever, the combination is also linked to neuro plasticicity, something called long term potentiation and long term depression.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_depression
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_potentiation

Which is related to learning, or, "clearing up gunk" or prepping sparkly fresh neurons to do new things. Along with psilocybin this is related to Ca+ ion channels in synapses thought to be important in migranes, something that the latter depletes a bit or something (too lazy to check everything).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18548582

So this is somewhat related and useful for neuroplasticity.

So that clears Alice in Wonderland on two levels, where the drowsy part is like ibotenic acid.
Muscarinic is coupled more to pre-synaptic activity and norepinephrin, so more likely to jump out of the chair.

Then we have "milk of the poppy" this expression is related to "poppy cock".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium
When you cut the bulb, a white substance come out that is rather rich in...
Active ingredients
Morphine codeine noscapine papaverine thebaine

So they are allowed for decoration still, and the concentration is not very high.
But as with the coca leaf used in food in Columbia and Bolivia, you can perhaps make a tea out of it and get a buzz as well. Also grows well in Northern Europe, and likely used to be common.

So how about modern alternatives and the ban of everything natural?

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=amanita+muscaria+dried+caps

Popular in many places in the world, but be careful there are some "not entirely red" that are considered edible.

https://flyamanita.com/index.php/dr...caps-mushrooms-for-sale-1-oz-one-ounce-detail

And so on, so why it's not more commonly used is surprising (oh, and 30 grams is common amount for a tea, ha ha ha..... *sadface").

So disclaimer, really really old people in retirement homes will often know about it and have used it in tea to calm down and feel better during winter. Avoid the nutters wanting to get "high" on anything from paracetamol and bananas. Right, so after seeing that site.... it must be dried to convert ibotenic acid, or reduce it and get more muscimol as that is the calming part, muscarine is thought effective against cancer and activates neat things with immune system. Used by Siberian shamans most notably. However, interestingly enough, amanita muscaria has several properties comparable to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin–norepinephrine_reuptake_inhibitor

Looking at how similar muscarine is to some SNRI meds, you see why I'm against much of this.

Psilocybin and Amanita Muscaria, two of the absolute most common mushrooms world wide.
And Opium somniferum, one of the historically most common flower in the world.

Edit: last edit finish this rant, talk to your doctor etc. Especially for things like this, and especially for medical use. And don't expect lots of experience and support, and mixing with benzos especially...
 
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Ifur said:
That chart is absolute nonsense, benzos are now considered the absolute worst.
It also doesn't make any distinction between individuals.
A good example of this is salt intake, so the salt hysteria comes from a study done on Indigenous people in the Amazones.
However, about 30% of the population depending on genes get a reduction in blood pressure from salt.
According to a bioinformatician I talked to about this, it's however become taboo to say salt can be good.
Have speculated whether increase in asthma is related to not enough salt as it has to do with mucus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome

Look at that shit!

Ban everything based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene
People are insane if they think this improves anything or helps, and that THC/CBD/LSD/Psilocybin/Muscarine/Mescalin and so on is "experimental" and less safe.
Than fucking synthetic chemicals that use benzene which is really fucking toxic to the nervous system.

Sorry for edits, but know one guy that had his life ruined by playing with these things at University, and he was studying chemistry; might have thought otherwise if he studied more biology. He talked about having snowy vision with green dots. "What's the problem, it has carbon chains and is therefor organic chemistry!".
Click to expand...

It is a very subjective chart I agree.
But it’s speaking in generalities, not subjectivity.

Personally, being a chronic pain patient from ankylosing spondylitis I’ve been on just about every kind of medication that could possibly be related to such a condition...for pain, anxiety, depression, sleep, muscle spasms, TNF blockers (which are fucking evil poison).
In my own subjective opinion I would reorder the drugs on the chart somewhat...but it seems as if the chart is also reflecting the amounts according to type being used in whatever study group they pulled from possibly too...which could skew things as well.
I once went cold turkey from a fentanyl pain patch, a half dozen or so of methadone a day, along with dilaudid for any extra pain that I could possibly feel.
Which would probably kill most people here on the forum...but my tolerance had built up at that point and the doctors just kept handing them out (bad on me)...until I became very hyper-analgesic...where my brain and body were creating more pain in order to get more of the pain meds.
Having been in the medical field my entire working career from working on an ambulance all the way to assisting with open heart surgery - I knew what was happening and also what I needed to do (yikes).
My body my have become addicted and reliant on the medications, but my will and my mind were not.
It was a truly horrific and torturous experience...very painful physically...I honestly did not sleep for the first 4-5 days...I binged-watched the entire first two seasons of ‘Sherlock’, the first two days, lol.
Lots of middle of the night hot baths for painful leg spasms.
Of course the half life of methadone is almost an entire month...so the acute phase of withdrawal lasts an incredibly long time.
I got through that only to start a low dose of buprenophine about 6 months later...as I still had significant chronic pain.
Once that medication started to work really well for me, my insurance decided to cut off all the pain patients from the med as it’s use for pain in the US was only just recently established.
So I ended up doing a sudden withdrawal from that shit too...let me just say that it should not be at the bottom of the list. ;)
It may have not been as physically painful as the other drugs, but psychologically it was much more of a challenge...it tested my willpower, not that I had access to anything to take if I wanted during those times.
The only ‘illegal' drugs that have been acquired by me are marijuana (which is now legal in my state ((my younger days)), and some various psychedelics, mostly mushrooms - for therapeutic purposes.

As far as benzos go...I agree that they can be very damaging...it is mother’s little helper after all. ;)
Again...subjectively and personally, I never had any issue stopping those whatsoever...but I know people who have struggled for years to quit as well.

30% of the population is a huge amount of people...those are much higher stats than aspirin has for preventing heart-attacks, yet millions are on regimes for that too.
It’s all about the money in the long run.
Salt does definitely play a role in blood pressure as this is regulated by the kidneys which have to work harder to filter excess salt out of the blood.
And there are some studies yes, you are correct, talking about appropriate amounts of salt helping to regulate BP...but most people in our society today have a large excess of salt and sugar due to the processed foods we eat and most of what is readily available in a convenient form.
So mostly the kidneys become overtaxed...this is a cumulative process over a number of years or decades even before you may see any measurable difference.

Also about your salt/asthma suggestion, they have a variety of Himalayan salt inhalers available to buy with a quick google search just for that reason.
Cheers!!
 
Skarekrow said:
It is a very subjective chart I agree.
But it’s speaking in generalities, not subjectivity.

Personally, being a chronic pain patient from ankylosing spondylitis I’ve been on just about every kind of medication that could possibly be related to such a condition...for pain, anxiety, depression, sleep, muscle spasms, TNF blockers (which are fucking evil poison).
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So social consequences due to stigma, and the interests and communities that does them.
There is a difference between snorting cocaine in parliament and a strip club.
Could be this is a major contribution to the order and evaluation of the drugs.

But wanted to ask after briefly looking up your condition, have you considered just adding magic mushrooms, cannabis, fly agaric and perhaps coca leaf and opium somnifeurm to your daily diet and just patching up the remainder with those seriously hardcore meds?

There is this thing with ethnogenes and the backside of this adaptation, in both sides of my family there are fishermen and the like for generations backs.
I can eat a fuckton of salt and be perfectly fine, even without needing or feeling like drinking a comparable amount of water.
Been periods for some reason when I crave salt, or it can be cod oil for example. Where I just down quite a bit of it.
As for salt I've had days where I've taken a couple of tablespoons of salt extra per day by just stuffing plain salt in my face.
Recommendation for salt per day is a teaspoon maximum, and I wonder what's wrong with those people, and why so little?
Have nobody heard of the salt march? My dad got nagged about salt by his girlfriend so much he ended up with prescription salt pills.

Might be on an evolutionary path towards becoming a fish, too many problems here on earth.

In all of this you are lucky to not be in the majority that gets fucked for life by some things like string opioids, benzos and the like.
Statistics for benzos if I remember correctly, was that 30% quickly gets past it and become fine again, the rest tend to be fucked for life with rehab. Would assume other things are a bit like that. And here we have a 30% again.... assume it's and accident! :) but benzo rehab and recurring patients was about that the last i read.
 
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kfg(atj said:
I'm wondering what the INFJ response is to this.
I live in CA and besides marijuana being legal and everyone doing that - I hear a lot about other drug usage.
I personally have never been drawn to experiment with drugs. I honestly dislike and even fear the thought of not being in control of my physical self, my feelings, my interactions, etc. I think it's much too vulnerable for me.

But I'm wondering if other INFJs share this same thought.
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No. I don't. But sometimes. I want to. To give in and be like most people in my town.

But that's not me. So, I won't.
 
Ifur said:
But wanted to ask after briefly looking up your condition, have you considered just adding magic mushrooms, cannabis, fly agaric and perhaps coca leaf and opium somnifeurm to your daily diet and just patching up the remainder with those seriously hardcore meds?
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I am very strict with my pain doctors now...both in what I take and how much.
I flat out refuse to even touch certain medications such as methadone.

Mostly now I am on low dose long acting morphine, which has an incredibly faster half-life than previous meds.
Plus, though I have been asked almost every time I go to an appointment if I want to go up on my dosages, I refuse and have been on the same low dose of the same medication now for the past 3 years or so.
Now I deal with the excess pain and the secondary symptoms of depression/anxiety through daily meditation mostly.
The medication keeps me functional to the point I can shower myself and do some basic chores and Qigong.
The meditation keeps me sane...along with occasional dosages of psilocybin.
Having also been born depressed, the fun guys also keep me from needing any type of antidepressant or similar.
Not that any ever worked for me - I only got the horrible side effects, never the benefits.

I have done various trials of natural herbs and other supplements, nothing of any noticeable help.
The only thing that has seriously helped me was psilocybin.
I have actually been running a support group through a larger nonprofit for chronic pain sufferers utilizing psychedelics...along with some private chronic pain consulting in regards to using such substances and fewer western modalities of treatment...more things like meditation, acceptance, altered states of mind/consciousness, learning to retrain your brain to disconnect the neural and nervous pathways it has crossed wires and separating them out again.
It’s more of an ongoing process as the pain is ongoing and will always be...I have accepted that and am okay with it 95% of the time.
It doesn’t mean I have given up trying to end my pain, only that fighting it is pointless and I am fighting nothing but myself.
I have two talks coming up...one with the group I just described and one with a bunch of Doctors and pain specialists who want to pick my brain regarding entheogenic substances for treating chronic pain/anxiety/depression experiences...I’m looking forward to it.

As for your large salt intake...I am sure there are those who are not affected as much as others.
There is not really a test that will tell you what excess salt is doing to you longterm if anything other than a kidney function test.
So long as they are working well, your BP would also be in normal range and you wouldn’t have issue with salt.
I’m sure there are some hereditary factors in play as well.
Take care.
 
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