Economic theory poll

Which economic structure gives people more freedom?

  • Minarchism (less amount of government / taxes / socialism. Gov't enforces property rights)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Democatic Socialism (Federal and state socialist policies / progressive taxation)

    Votes: 15 100.0%
  • Total voters
    15
Ren said:
Well, I should say democracy with a strong, healthy civil society that is, if possible, as independent as it can be from government funding.

Accountability goes hand in hand with transparency. A well-educated population also, to have the tools to understand why accountability is important and be able to demand it.

Check out the concept of polyarchy which according to Robert Dahl is the best possible system.
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Since you responded to my post and seem to enjoy talking about these things I have another question for you. Do you think those conditions are generally met in Western society? "A strong, healthy civil society," and a "well-educated population."
 
Fuyuko said:
Since you responded to my post and seem to enjoy talking about these things I have another question for you. Do you think those conditions are generally met in Western society? "A strong, healthy civil society," and a "well-educated population."
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It's a difficult question to answer; the situation could always be improved, and by a large margin, but generally I would say that Western countries, specifically OECD ones, are closest to achieving a decent democratic standard. This is something that has to be constantly sustained, though. History is indeterministic, things can shift very quickly.

From what I know, countries that are doing really well on that front are Switzerland and the Scandinavian countries. Check out other measures that correlate pretty well with the above, such as the HDI index and the Gini index for income equality.
 
Ren said:
It's a difficult question to answer; the situation could always be improved, and by a large margin, but generally I would say that Western countries, specifically OECD ones, are closest to achieving a decent democratic standard. This is something that has to be constantly sustained, though. History is indeterministic, things can shift very quickly.

From what I know, countries that are doing really well on that front are Switzerland and the Scandinavian countries. Check out other measures that correlate pretty well with the above, such as the HDI index and the Gini index for income equality.
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Completely agree with this.

Although strangely enough, I am not that opposed to Chinese model as well. I like the idea of a strong state that is genuinely working for the benefit of the people, which I think is at least partly true in China's case.
 
I choose neither, as I think for myself. Totally against the liberal BS, as it sounds too much like Robin Hood. I have been involved with too many other problems to focus on this right now. I also think the question should be which works the best for us all. My freedom includes the right to bear arms, which enables the people to stand against tyranny. Disarm the public? They removed prayer from schools. Can't correct a child with a belt. My child would know better or else he would be corrected. A person need not act like Satan while spanking a child. Talk with them. Don't be angry. Constantly placing voters in other areas to change the way the voting looks.

What we do, as a society, should consist of thinking outside the box. Unfortunately, the box most have been placed in to learn how to think and choose is disrupted. Bad question, poor choices.

Never before seen so many people influenced with media, omission, and lies.
 
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philostam said:
But seriously, moderate leftist policies were proven to be the most effective overall. I don't think there can be much debating that.
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This astounds me, someone could say such a thing. Show the proof.
 
Maikl Jexocuha said:
Fuck that shit! A school is meant for learning, NOT indoctrination - it's not a church, nor should it be. Separation of Church and State! And Fuck spanking kids - it's a slippery slope from "correction" to "child abuse". It doesn't teach them anything, other than "don't act like that", or "don't get caught". It doesn't make them better people when they grow up. It doesn't help them in any practical way. And if you just say well "my kids are bad..they deserve it". It's your failure as a parent! You shouldn't have procreated in the first place!
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I'd agree if children could understand what was being said to them. They really can't. It's too complex. Sometimes spanking (or some kind of punishment) is the only way. Do you know of another way?
 
Maikl Jexocuha said:
Fuck that shit! A school is meant for learning, NOT indoctrination - it's not a church, nor should it be. Separation of Church and State! And Fuck spanking kids - it's a slippery slope from "correction" to "child abuse". It doesn't teach them anything, other than "don't act like that", or "don't get caught". It doesn't make them better people when they grow up. It doesn't help them in any practical way. And if you just say well "my kids are bad..they deserve it". It's your failure as a parent! You shouldn't have procreated in the first place!
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How would you know anything but your opinion? I'd rather be indoctrinated with scripture than the BS you were.
 
Maikl Jexocuha said:
I can see a slap on the wrist when they are like 3 to just get there attention when they are in danger is fine. You're right, they don't know, and all you are supposed to do is get their attention - to protect them from harm. But you don't always need to "talk" - you lead by example, you put in them in places to demonstrate what is right and wrong. You allow them to even mess up, and they may get hurt, but they will learn. But to hurt them yourself, it's like double trouble. Now instead of fearing "God" or the "environment", they fear the parent. Look, I was beaten with a stick up until age 15 - super strict "Christian" upbringing. Didn't teach me a goddamn thing. Just fucked me up even more. I swear I'd never want to see kids hit by people who "so-called' love them.
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I agree with leading by example, and for many kids that will be enough. I guess it's the kids who that's not enough for we're talking about. They need correction. I wish they were like cats, terrified of water, so I could spray them with a little harmless water and that would be the end of it. Unfortunately that doesn't work.

I was spanked as a child and it may have done some psychological damage. I can't be sure. But I'm very confident that the public school system that I had to endure did a hundred or a thousand times as much psychological damage. Just want to put things into perspective. It may have been much worse for you. I concede that.
 
I took a 14 year old boy from the streets. He lied to his Mother, Grandmother, and me one night. His Mother was going to beat him: told her I would handle it.
Went to where he wasn't supposed to be and stood behind him while he played Pacman. Let him finish his games. We went home and to the back room...alone.
I explained to him what he had done and how he had manipulated everyone. Told him he needed correcting, and asked him if he understood why. He agreed.
Told him for lying to his Mother, he would get one swipe of my belt on his legs. I didn't hurt him. I was calm. Collected. Sat with him til he stopped his acting crying.
We talked. He was OK with it all. Asked how he felt about one swipe for lying to and using his Grandmother. He said he understood and was ready. Swiped him once.
He cried. I sat calmly and we talked a good while. Asked how he felt about one for what problems he had caused me. His eyes got big. He said he understood.
Stood him up and spanked him with three....harder, but nowhere like what I used to get. Sat calmly til he stopped crying. Shook his hand and asked that he never make me do that again, for it hurt me as much as it did him.
He agreed, and was telling the truth as time would show.

His Mother came home screaming at him later. I stopped her and said it wouldn't happen again. He agreed. She stormed out the room.

Child abuse???????????????????Exactly what is a young man at 14 doing playing in and running the streets at 10 PM on? Nobody had ever corrected him with understanding. Nobody had ever led a good example for him.
I was loading my trailer and boat early the next morning to go fishing. I eat the fish(oh my God).
He asked if he could go? I said he could. When we were about to leave, his Mother told him to get back into the house. Told her he was going fishing with me.

As a matter of fact, I could hardly leave the house from then on without him. Taught him to fish for different species during different times of the year. Taught him to store them properly, clean them when we got back home, freeze them properly,
thaw them properly, and pick the bones away to eat them properly. If I went to buy bait the night before, he was with me. Two years later, after I divorced his Mother, his uncle came by the house from out of town during Christmas.
Gave me a big bear hug and told me how almost his entire family sent him to thank me for what I had done for the young man. Said he always took a rod, reel, and tackle box almost everywhere they went. Job well done.

There is a big difference in correction and abuse.
 
Fuyuko said:
I'd agree if children could understand what was being said to them. They really can't. It's too complex. Sometimes spanking (or some kind of punishment) is the only way. Do you know of another way?
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That depends on the child and the age. I don't hit my dogs. I only correct them when caught in the act, so they will understand. I never procreated. My wife lost our child at three months.
 
Had I had a child, he most certainly would never have walked into a place and started killing people randomly.
 
There was a joke I will try to condense. A family said grace, then the Father filled his plate with mashed potatoes. He held the potatoes to his left. "Charlie, have some potatoes." The child said, "I don't want any (F....expletive) potatoes."
The Father slapped him ion the face for speaking like that, causing him to jump away and fall out of his chair. As he was sitting back at the table, the Father said, "John, would you like some potatoes? The child said, "I sure as h#*# don't want any of those (F...expletive) potatoes." Never correct a child that can understand without an explanation. If they are never corrected, they will most likely be a problem until someone else corrects them for you.
 
Maikl Jexocuha said:
Maybe slugging teenager cold will teach 'em better. They're not strong enough to hurt you yet. Make them a "better Christian" a better "Patriot" a better "Stormtrooper". A Superman.
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I do not like your twisted words. They sound quite adolescent to me. I will not read them any longer. Maybe you would rather raise a bully or someone that doesn't understand life. Good bye. I was 14 once.
 
just me said:
That depends on the child and the age. I don't hit my dogs. I only correct them when caught in the act, so they will understand. I never procreated. My wife lost our child at three months.
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Not sure what age exactly children start to be able to understand more complex ideas, thus begin to understand why they shouldn't do certain things, but it's around that age that punishment can be replaced with reasoning.
 
Have to say I can go talk with ten friends that would vote this opinion vote quite differently. A poll is according to whom is asked.
 
copied, the NYT

Why do some metros vote differently than their economics might suggest they would? Race, ethnicity and religion. Metros that vote Democratic despite having lower education and a job mix more typical of redder metros tend to have large Hispanic populations, including many in inland California and on the Texas border. Metros that vote more Republican despite having higher education and a blue-metro job mix tend to be whiter. (Colorado Springs also has a large evangelical population, and Provo-Orem a large Mormon one.)

Although most economic fundamentals look better in bluer metros, national economic confidence is higher among Republicans. And people who are upbeat about the national economy tend to be upbeat about their local economy. But once you account for personal political views, local economic confidence is higher in blue metros than in red metros. That means Republicans in blue metros have the highest levels of local economic confidence.

Moreover, redder metros have their own advantages, especially for people in certain economic situations. The lower cost of living in redder metros is a big advantage for retirees and others not in the labor market.
 
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