Enlightenment

Skarekrow said:
Killing is killing.
I find unnecessary death wrong yes.
Imho it can be both subjective and objectively wrong.

Again...I admire and respect your convictions and opinions in your faith and in your beliefs.
I myself do not adhere to one religious viewpoint as I find wisdom to glean from many places.
All religions believe they are teaching how to realize the ultimate reality...be it Nirvana or Christian heaven...it is a peeling away of the ego natured self and gaining ultimate insight into the nature of reality both here and after.
This has been taught by many teachers over the eons.
The paths may not be the same...but it is their path to choose...imho we all go to the same destination.
You don’t have to agree with any of that...again, that is your path...the one that suits you best.
There is no telling what will “enlighten” someone Sir, nor how quickly or lengthy that can be.
You present your own beliefs as the correct pathway and as if they are factual - I’m sorry I don’t think that way but whatever subjectively works for you is rad.
Take care.
Click to expand...

For every action there is reaction and if you kill someone you know that consequence will not be good, you also know that internally, you posses conscience. You will reap negative consequence regardless of your subjective opinion, maybe not in this life but definitely in one of your future life. That was my main point where I was saying to align oneself with natural laws and universal values. Buddha and other enlightened beings gain full knowledge about this, they see how reality operates and what are the universal laws. People also from other religions had similar if not same insights because laws are carved in our hearts, it is not relative.

I am also coming from various perspectives, I did comparative religion studies so I am not ignorant of other paths. There is wisdom in every religion but not all religions lead to same destination, that is just fact. If certain religion says that their teachings and practices lead to Ultimate that doesn't mean that they actually do.

I will give main reason and explanation what makes religions and their goals different in response to @Milktoast Bandit . So if you are interested you can check it out.
 
Milktoast Bandit said:
It really seems this thread took off while I was away. I don't see a need to contribute my perspective anymore. It has pretty much been covered. But for what it's worth, the video I posted did not say that all are the same but there are many that do reach the summit. If I have any advice to give, it would be look into various spiritual practices/religions if only to engage in productive discourse. You may find that many of these traditions that you say are wrong, are saying much the same thing in a different language...
For example in Buddhism and Eastern philosophy you have what is called 'mindfulness' and 'enlightenment'. In Orthodox Christianity those same ideas are called 'watchfulness' and 'illumination'. Just a little something to think about.
Click to expand...

I am on path since I started to read philosophy in high school. I went through major philosophers of west, then switched to east after which I started to also read about major religions. I did religion comparative studies so I am not ignorant of various paths. I have been on path for 6 years now, constantly reading, questioning, comparing. Did various discussions with other people from different backgrounds. It is just that I am sure in what I am doing so because of that I may appear overconfident but in my mind I already been through all of arguments that whole forum is throwing at me.

Now I will explain you main difference between religions and why every path doesn't lead to same destination. You see every major religion besides Buddhism teaches people to live moral life and then after death they will be reborn in heaven. That is just mundane path. Buddhism teaches supermundane path where aim is to become liberated and break the cycle of rebirth and death. Enlightened person will not be born in heavens but he will exit existence completely and dissolve into Void. That's the main difference between mundane and supermundane paths. Buddha when became enlightened gained knowledge about existence and saw that even beings in heaven doesn't live forever and that even they eventually die after which they are reborn in our world or even hell.

So you see, not every path leads to same destination. Some paths lead to more entanglement and suffering. We are not able to maintain anything forever in the long run and because of that we will be subjected to much more suffering then pleasure if we remain in this process of rebirth and death. That leaves us hopeless because all our efforts and achievements will not be good enough in the end. Because of that, to become enlightened is only worth thing accomplishing, only that can bring everlasting peace.
 
Dado said:
I am on path since I started to read philosophy in high school. I went through major philosophers of west, then switched to east after which I started to also read about major religions. I did religion comparative studies so I am not ignorant of various paths. I have been on path for 6 years now, constantly reading, questioning, comparing. Did various discussions with other people from different backgrounds. It is just that I am sure in what I am doing so because of that I may appear overconfident but in my mind I already been through all of arguments that whole forum is throwing at me.

Now I will explain you main difference between religions and why every path doesn't lead to same destination. You see every major religion besides Buddhism teaches people to live moral life and then after death they will be reborn in heaven. That is just mundane path. Buddhism teaches supermundane path where aim is to become liberated and break the cycle of rebirth and death. Enlightened person will not be born in heavens but he will exit existence completely and dissolve into Void. That's the main difference between mundane and supermundane paths. Buddha when became enlightened gained knowledge about existence and saw that even beings in heaven doesn't live forever and that even they eventually die after which they are reborn in our world or even hell.

So you see, not every path leads to same destination. Some paths lead to more entanglement and suffering. We are not able to maintain anything forever in the long run and because of that we will be subjected to much more suffering then pleasure if we remain in this process of rebirth and death. That leaves us hopeless because all our efforts and achievements will not be good enough in the end. Because of that, to become enlightened is only worth thing accomplishing, only that can bring everlasting peace.
Click to expand...
So, you think if you become enlightened you will no longer suffer trials & tribulations? You will live a painless life?
 
Misty said:
Lol... Do you really think we have no free will? 0.0

Why do you read verses from scripture, a bible whose proclamations your theory outright denies? All in an effort to fit your own ( man-made definition of "enlightenment" ?

"
The Bible’s answer
God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do. Consider what the Bible teaches.

  • God created humans in his image. (Genesis 1:26) Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will.

  • To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life . . . by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: “O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”—Isaiah 48:18.

  • Our success or failure is not determined by fate. If we want to succeed at an endeavor, we must work hard. “All that your hand finds to do,” says the Bible, “do with your very power.”(Ecclesiastes 9:10) It also says: “The plans of the diligent one surely make for advantage.”—Proverbs 21:5.
Free will is a precious gift from God, for it lets us love him with our “whole heart”—because we want to.—Matthew 22:37.
Click to expand...

You probably believe that God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient. From that we can conclude that God knows everything even my next action that I will perform. Free will is illusion.

Also your view of God is very incorrect. God is not some personal being or entity that has emotions. That is childish representation of God. God is impersonal.
 
Misty said:
So, you think if you become enlightened you will no longer suffer trials & tribulations? You will live a painless life?
Click to expand...

Enlightened person will experience physical pain until he drops body and fully dissolve into Void, but at the same time he will not experience psychological suffering. He will only feel unconditional love, compassion and unshakable peace. So physical pain will not matter that much, because there will not be instinctual psychological reaction towards it or in another word called, aversion.
 
Dado said:
You probably believe that God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient. From that we can conclude that God knows everything even my next action that I will perform. Free will is illusion.

Also your view of God is very incorrect. God is not some personal being or entity that has emotions. That is childish representation of God. God is impersonal.
Click to expand...

No offense, but I'll take God's word & the bible His words are written in before I take cult logic.. So no, my view of God is not incorrect. And I find it horrendously rude and presumptuous of you to utter such a thing..

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

(chapter 3, verse 16 of the Gospel of John of the New Testament) is one of the most widely quoted verses from the Bible and has been called the most famous Bible verse.[1] It has also been called the "Gospel in a nutshell".

O.O Pretty tough for God to be 'Impersonal' when he loved the world to the point of losing his only son.. I don't think many faiths would ever refer to God as such when in fact he is Love..

All I can say is... You literally gleaned nothing from what I said about my "stance' on God, because, quite honestly.. I didn't divulge such information to you.

And..well. Good luck with your purple Kool-aid drinking.
 
Misty said:
No offense, but I'll take God's word & the bible His words are written in before I take cult logic.. So no, my view of God is not incorrect. And I find it horrendously rude and presumptuous of you to utter such a thing..

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

(chapter 3, verse 16 of the Gospel of John of the New Testament) is one of the most widely quoted verses from the Bible and has been called the most famous Bible verse.[1] It has also been called the "Gospel in a nutshell".

O.O Pretty tough for God to be 'Impersonal' when he loved the world to the point of losing his only son.. I don't think many faiths would ever refer to God as such when in fact he is Love..

All I can say is... You literally gleaned nothing from what I said about my "stance' on God, because, quite honestly.. I didn't divulge such information to you.

And..well. Good luck with your purple Kool-aid drinking.
Click to expand...

Now you sound like fundamental Christian. What you refer as God is just one of many gods that exist in universe which lives in some heavenly realm and one day he will die too. Nor Christian God nor Jesus are eternal. Everything in universe is impermanent and one day will be totally destroyed. That is just how life operates.
 
Dado said:
Enlightened person will experience physical pain until he drops body and fully dissolve into Void, but at the same time he will not experience psychological suffering. He will only feel unconditional love, compassion and unshakable peace. So physical pain will not matter that much, because there will not be instinctual psychological reaction towards it or in another word called, aversion.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, of course.. So the enlightened can have spouses who cheat on them or die.. lose children, suffer terrible travesties and not feel any pain? I think that ability belongs solely to the sociopathic.. Real people cannot fully transcend human pain without transcendending human emotion. Not possible, but good luck.
 
Dado said:
Now you sound like fundamental Christian. What you refer as God is just one of many gods that exist in universe which lives in some heavenly realm and one day he will die too. Nor Christian God nor Jesus are eternal. Everything in universe is impermanent and one day will be totally destroyed. That is just how life operates.
Click to expand...
LOL!!

I cannot continue to battle wits with an unarmed opponent. I'm sorry.
 
Misty said:
Ah yes, of course.. So the enlightened can have spouses who cheat on them or die.. lose children, suffer terrible travesties and not feel any pain? I think that ability belongs solely to the sociopathic.. Real people cannot fully transcend human pain without transcendending human emotion. Not possible, but good luck.
Click to expand...

Yes, because he resolved all attachments and aversions, he became selfless, he is not concerned with mundane affairs anymore. That is not sociopathic, that is just being enlightened. Actually they can transcend and a lot of people did it.
 
Dado said:
Yes, because he resolved all attachments and aversions, he became selfless, he is not concerned with mundane affairs anymore. That is not sociopathic, that is just being enlightened. Actually they can transcend and a lot of people did it.
Click to expand...
Let me assure you a person whose child dies will not feel it's a "mundane" affair..

Yikes.
 
It seems like everybody here is under a spell of Post modernism and relativism. Afraid to take concrete stance as to not hurt somebody feelings.
 
Dado said:
It seems like everybody here is under a spell of Post modernism and relativism. Afraid to take concrete stance as to not hurt somebody feelings.
Click to expand...
Yes...of course...it’s everyone else Sir.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top