Eric Garner

[Eventhorizon]

And as a result you've missed one of the main points of the issue entirely. As I said, police are not afraid of concrete evidence, nor are they much afraid of the judiciary. The reason for this is the permissive nature of our society. The corrupt, the dishonest, and yes, the racist, are allowed to flourish. There are a lot of reasons for this, none of which is entirely. People get hung up on the big push behind ideas like "cops are heroes" which easily follows into "cops can do no wrong" which then allows cops to murder someone and then avoid prosecution in court. Garner's death might not have been racially charged, but the misconduct trial sure as shit was (jurors can be racist, too).

Cute quoting a picture I never posted. And yes liberals are by far one of the biggest issues we have to over come in this nation.

As for jurors being racist? Do you know who they are? I dont know enough about how that whole thing works. Is it that they were racist or is it the way the system is setup. X has to be in place to take it to trial and X is almost impossible to get even if all the jurors were black. Can you say for sure they were all racist and thats why it turned out the way it did?

You see heres the issue. Lets say people push that point and come up with a solution to solve it. But later find theres really a different separate issues thats driving the main problem. They come back and say well we know what we said before but now its this...
I want to know what the actual problem is and Im sorry but saying police brutality is only related to racism is bs.
And no I did not miss anything. I know what people want this to because it props their cause up. Im not interested in window dressing, I want the foundational problem to be fixed.

 

[Skarekrow]

When a Non-White Cop Killed an Innocent White Man in Utah, the Press Was Silent
Dean Garrison August 21, 2014

It has been reported that cops kill about 500 innocent Americans per year. Yet most of those stories stay buried or at best, see limited life in local media or the blogosphere. Only the select, as in selected by the media, stories become as big as the Michael Brown story. Certain stories simply transcend the perceived boredom of news headlines and become a part of pop culture.

Does the media intentionally stir up racial hatred? Is it part of their agenda?
Is it because blacks in Ferguson rioted and looted while whites in Salt Lake City have remained calm?

America needs to find answers, because this racial divide is moronic. We are all "Americans," and not "African-Americans," or "Asian-Americans," or "Redneck-Americans," or anything else. We are Americans first, and we need to remember that. It is OK to love and celebrate your heritage. It is not OK to let it consume who you are and carry hatred that will explode at a moment's notice.

Ever heard of a kid named Dillon Taylor?

He was a white kid, 20 years old, who was killed by a black cop on August 11. This happened two days after Michael Brown was killed.

Dillon Taylor seems to be a young man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was leaving a 7-11 convenience store. Officers were in the area because there was a report of a man with a gun.

Taylor had headphones in and did not hear the police when they asked him to lay down on the ground.

Taylor, unfortunately, reached into his pocket, for a cell phone, and that was the last thing he ever did. He had no gun. He did not rob any stores. He did not assault a police officer.

His "crime" was that he did not think, and that non-crime cost him his life.

Officers were obviously in a heightened state of alert, and a white kid with headphones happened to be killed by a cop who was referred to as "not white."

Do you think that was because of his race? I don't think it was, and that's my personal opinion, but…Where are the riots in Salt Lake City? Surely a lot of whites have to think that this was racially motivated. Right?

Wrong. I think most people (black and white) understand that it was probably not racially motivated. The frustration that falls over much of "white America" is that we are all thrown into one big pile of racists and if a white on black crime happens, the worst always gets assumed by a minority of people and is then pushed by the media, continually growing exponentially until out of control. That is when the real problems begin to happen.

That is also exactly where we are with the situation in Ferguson. I live in a country where I am labeled a racist for not liking Obama's policies. If I don't like Obamacare, I am a racist and even a white man will call me that, so long as he is a Democrat.

When are people going to wake up and see that "the powers that be," which include both media and government, want us to stay divided? They really don't want me and a black man in Murrieta, California to agree on anything. That would eat away at the power that they only keep when we remain divided. We give them that power by our senseless bickering.

I think most of us could understand how the police might have felt that Dillon Taylor was reaching for a gun. I, for one, don't think this had anything to do with race. I think it was about a cop who felt his life was in danger. So why is it so hard to believe that Darren Wilson could have thought the same thing?

Why is it that, often times, when a white man, or any man who is not black in the case of George Zimmerman, kills a black man, it becomes a media circus?

We will get nowhere by avoiding the tough questions in the name of "political correctness."

People need to stop thinking that the black man or the white man is their enemy and look at the real enemy that resides throughout the halls of capitol buildings all over this nation and in newsrooms in virtually every city.

America needs to do some soul searching and come together in spite of those who want us divided. A lot of us are waking up and that is what "the powers that be" fear. So what happens when they fear that we will come together?
They stir up more chaos just as they are doing in Ferguson and just as they did with Trayvon Martin.

This will continue until Americans open their eyes and start to see the real enemy.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/08/black-cop-killed-innocent-white-man-utah-press-silent/

That would be a really good story showing that it's the media and not the cops who are racist IF it weren’t statistically factual that a young black male is 21 times more likely to die from police gunfire than your average Joe.

 

[Eventhorizon]

That would be a really good story showing that it's the media and not the cops who are racist IF it weren’t statistically factual that a young black male is 21 times more likely to die from police gunfire than your average Joe.

That number by itself doesn't mean anything. It could be that they are 21 times more likely to be doing something that will get them shot. For whatever reason.
Im not saying racism doesnt exist because it clearly does.

 

[Skarekrow]

@Eventhorizon

Liberal…conservative…?
Most people are a mixture of both…and then some people are perpetually “catching up” to what society condemns and blesses.
I have some views that are quite liberal…but there are a few things (mainly because of how I was raised and being in the United States Coast Guard out of college) that still remain conservative, and I tend to fall on that angle for certain reasons.
I have always understood the conservative view-point as my Father was a conservative Republican…we never argued about politics…we always found some common ground between us.
Whatever people wish to call me because of my political viewpoint is fine…I don’t think what I think really makes a difference…voting certain does not count anymore.
So where are the “conservatives” losing their shit over that? The fact that 93.8% of those who outspent those they were running against were the winners.
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2014/11/money-won-on-tuesday-but-rules-of-the-game-changed/

Still think your vote counts?
This is a racial case…and it isn’t just the liberal media that is making shit up…we have some serious problems with racism and the racial divide in America.
That above statistic is true…a young black male is 21 times more likely to die from police gunfire than your average Joe…that’s insane.
Yes. Some of them could be criminals…but statistically that also isn’t true.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/02/politics/kristoff-oreilly-police-shooting-numbers-fact-check/

Here is an excellent story on what conservative media has done to the issue.
(we gotta check out stories from the “dark side” too…lol)
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/12/03/conservative-media-still-denying-how-racism-and/201751

 

[Eventhorizon]

@Eventhorizon

Liberal…conservative…?
Most people are a mixture of both…and then some people are perpetually “catching up” to what society condemns and blesses.
I have some views that are quite liberal…but there are a few things (mainly because of how I was raised and being in the United States Coast Guard out of college) that still remain conservative, and I tend to fall on that angle for certain reasons.
I have always understood the conservative view-point as my Father was a conservative Republican…we never argued about politics…we always found some common ground between us.
Whatever people wish to call me because of my political viewpoint is fine…I don’t think what I think really makes a difference…voting certain does not count anymore.
So where are the “conservatives” losing their shit over that? The fact that 93.8% of those who outspent those they were running against were the winners.
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2014/11/money-won-on-tuesday-but-rules-of-the-game-changed/

Still think your vote counts?
This is a racial case…and it isn’t just the liberal media that is making shit up…we have some serious problems with racism and the racial divide in America.
That above statistic is true…a young black male is 21 times more likely to die from police gunfire than your average Joe…that’s insane.
Yes. Some of them could be criminals…but statistically that also isn’t true.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/02/politics/kristoff-oreilly-police-shooting-numbers-fact-check/

Here is an excellent story on what conservative media has done to the issue.
(we gotta check out stories from the “dark side” too…lol)
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/12/03/conservative-media-still-denying-how-racism-and/201751

I am neither liberal or conservative. I choose conservative when voting most of the time because they are only half insane where as liberals are completely insane. Its not the ideals, its what it takes to achieve those ideals.
Its always the lesser of two evils.

As for your numbers, numbers can show whatever the person wants them to show.

 

[Stu]

As for your numbers, numbers can show whatever the person wants them to show.

You can't argue with that, not without a taser.

 

[Eventhorizon]

[MENTION=1939]Stu[/MENTION]
My point is if something can be argured it has not been decided. We have any number of scientists out there saying global warming IS being caused by mankind. Just as many say its not. Both sides have good arguments BUT niether has proved their side definitively. Theres very little difference in arguing the cause of police brutality. I dont believe its only race related and I will argue that adamantly. I believe its an underlying issue for some who seek out authority positions such as police work with dreams of the day they can rough someone up or maybe they get to shoot someone. Physiological issues in other words that should be screened for. Also there should be a way for good officers to report bad behavior without fear of repercussions from others.
REAL solutions.

 

[Stu]

@ evethorizine

We have any number of scientists out there saying global warming IS being caused by mankind. Just as many say its not

this is an example of how your statement about numbers is out of wack. It is clear that both the numbers of scientists in general and climate scientist in particular who concur that global warming is predominantly a man made event far outway those holding the contrary conclusion.

That said, I think you are a smart and articulate person truly invested in having a just society.

 

[Skarekrow]

I am neither liberal or conservative. I choose conservative when voting most of the time because they are only half insane where as liberals are completely insane. Its not the ideals, its what it takes to achieve those ideals.
Its always the lesser of two evils.

As for your numbers, numbers can show whatever the person wants them to show.

This is true but only to a certain extent.
Then you are fighting hard statistical data.
Liberals have not done anything any more whack-o than the conservatives do…it’s what you choose to pay attention to and what you choose to ignore…in this case what FOX news chooses to ignore or CNN or MSNBC.

Numbers don’t lie.

 

[Eventhorizon]

This is true but only to a certain extent.
Then you are fighting hard statistical data.
Liberals have not done anything any more whack-o than the conservatives do…it’s what you choose to pay attention to and what you choose to ignore…in this case what FOX news chooses to ignore or CNN or MSNBC.

Numbers don’t lie.

I see it exactly the opposite. Its what CNN and MsNBC choose to ignore. I used to sit in a room of 40 50 inch monitors. They showed fox, cnn and msnbc side by side. I sat there for 4 years. I think I have a better idea than most whose ignoring what and why. I do agree with you though. News stations have a certain amount of time per day so they report on what they believe their watchers want to see or hear for ratings. I can tell you time and time again CNN and MsNBC would call foxnews out for reporting on something like Acorn saying there was no story there only to start reporting on it a month later becaue it was actually a story they wanted to die.
Im sorry but fox is a legitimate news source if we have any. I read both websites these days but become tired of CNN these days very quickly. Their obvious catering to the left leaves me sickened. Before you say it Fox only appears far right because of how far left the other news stations are. Even so some of their stories sicken me. Though not nearly as many as the others mentioned.
The lesser of two evils.

 

[Skarekrow]

@Stu
My point is if something can be argured it has not been decided. We have any number of scientists out there saying global warming IS being caused by mankind. Just as many say its not. Both sides have good arguments BUT niether has proved their side definitively. Theres very little difference in arguing the cause of police brutality. I dont believe its only race related and I will argue that adamantly. I believe its an underlying issue for some who seek out authority positions such as police work with dreams of the day they can rough someone up or maybe they get to shoot someone. Physiological issues in other words that should be screened for. Also there should be a way for good officers to report bad behavior without fear of repercussions from others.
REAL solutions.

There are very few scientists who are arguing that man did not have a hand in our current global warming.
The consensus is we are dooming ourselves…but those with the money and power to do something about it are pulling out every stop to discredit what so many incredibly intelligent people without political motives have said is happening.
It’s all about greed and the money…that is why we are even debating about what we are going to do instead of doing something about it.
Because it’s a win-win situation to do those things we know are good for our environment and planet.
But who’s pocket-book would that impact the most? Those who own the oil.

I don’t doubt that these cops weren’t tying to kill Eric Gardner…I don’t think it was purposeful…that being said…
Cops in many areas of our country treat black males differently than they treat everyone else.
Gives this a read - https://www.americanprogress.org/is...or-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/

Once convicted, black offenders receive longer sentences compared to white offenders. The U.S. Sentencing Commission stated that in the federal system black offenders receive sentences that are 10 percent longer than white offenders for the same crimes. The Sentencing Project reports that African Americans are 21 percent more likely to receive mandatory-minimum sentences than white defendants and are 20 percent more like to be sentenced to prison.

This IS a race issue when this kind of shit is going on.
How would you view that…and the other statistics from that short article if you were in their position?

 

[Skarekrow]

I see it exactly the opposite. Its what CNN and MsNBC choose to ignore. I used to sit in a room of 40 50 inch monitors. They showed fox, cnn and msnbc side by side. I sat there for 4 years. I think I have a better idea than most whose ignoring what and why. I do agree with you though. News stations have a certain amount of time per day so they report on what they believe their watchers want to see or hear for ratings. I can tell you time and time again CNN and MsNBC would call foxnews out for reporting on something like Acorn saying there was no story there only to start reporting on it a month later becaue it was actually a story they wanted to die.
Im sorry but fox is a legitimate news source if we have any. I read both websites these days but become tired of CNN these days very quickly. Their obvious catering to the left leaves me sickened. Before you say it Fox only appears far right because of how far left the other news stations are. Even so some of their stories sicken me. Though not nearly as many as the others mentioned.
The lesser of two evils.

I don’t watch any of them.
I watch the local news…actually it’s a Fox affiliate.
They are all liars as far as I am concerned.
News should never be manipulated by the media reporting it and all of them are guilty of it.
At least online, you can check the factual information in your story…I can’t watch the cable news…they are trash propped up to sedate our minds with more garbage stories and other stories specifically designed to get your blood pressure up and pissed and ready to kill liberals or conservatives or the poor….of course, never the rich, the bankers, etc. etc.

 

[Eventhorizon]

There are very few scientists who are arguing that man did not have a hand in our current global warming.
The consensus is we are dooming ourselves…but those with the money and power to do something about it are pulling out every stop to discredit what so many incredibly intelligent people without political motives have said is happening.
It’s all about greed and the money…that is why we are even debating about what we are going to do instead of doing something about it.
Because it’s a win-win situation to do those things we know are good for our environment and planet.
But who’s pocket-book would that impact the most? Those who own the oil.

I don’t doubt that these cops weren’t tying to kill Eric Gardner…I don’t think it was purposeful…that being said…
Cops in many areas of our country treat black males differently than they treat everyone else.
Gives this a read - https://www.americanprogress.org/is...or-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/



This IS a race issue when this kind of shit is going on.
How would you view that…and the other statistics from that short article if you were in their position?

You are not getting the foundation of what I am saying so lets try this. Supposing their is an issue with police treating black people differently, whats your solution for that? Whats any solution for that? If the person is racist do you think talking to them about it is going to change their mind? Not at that age. So whats the solution? All black cops in predominantly black neighborhoods? Is that even logistically possible? That doesnt take care of the other psychological problems many officers seem to have. Then we just have black cops killing black people instead of white cops killing black people.
So again, real solutions. Screening before hiring or training and then yearly psychological exams. Now many might decry this as cop hating but theres no other job where you have the right to use force at your discretion against citizens. It seems to be common sense in my mind.

If it takes some sort of racial engine to make these things happen...whatever I guess.

 

[Skarekrow]

This is actually a really good article showing you some of the differences in how people are treated.

The Top 10 Most Startling Facts About People of Color and Criminal Justice in the United States

A Look at the Racial Disparities Inherent in Our Nation’s Criminal-Justice System​

This month the United States celebrates the Selma-to-Montgomery marches of 1965 to commemorate our shared history of the civil rights movement and our nation’s continued progress towards racial equality.
Yet decades later a broken criminal-justice system has proven that we still have a long way to go in achieving racial equality.

Today people of color continue to be disproportionately incarcerated, policed, and sentenced to death at significantly higher rates than their white counterparts. Further, racial disparities in the criminal-justice system threaten communities of color–disenfranchising thousands by limiting voting rights and denying equal access to employment, housing, public benefits, and education to millions more. In light of these disparities, it is imperative that criminal-justice reform evolves as the civil rights issue of the 21st century.

Below we outline the top 10 facts pertaining to the criminal-justice system’s impact on communities of color.

1. While people of color make up about 30 percent of the United States’ population, they account for 60 percent of those imprisoned.The prison population grew by 700 percent from 1970 to 2005, a rate that is outpacing crime and population rates. The incarceration rates disproportionately impact men of color: 1 in every 15 African American men and 1 in every 36 Hispanic men are incarcerated in comparison to 1 in every 106 white men.

2. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, one in three black men can expect to go to prison in their lifetime. Individuals of color have a disproportionate number of encounters with law enforcement, indicating that racial profiling continues to be a problem. A report by the Department of Justice found that blacks and Hispanics were approximately three times more likely to be searched during a traffic stop than white motorists. African Americans were twice as likely to be arrested and almost four times as likely to experience the use of force during encounters with the police.

3. Students of color face harsher punishments in school than their white peers, leading to a higher number of youth of color incarcerated. Black and Hispanic students represent more than 70 percent of those involved in school-related arrests or referrals to law enforcement. Currently, African Americans make up two-fifths and Hispanics one-fifth of confined youth today.

4. According to recent data by the Department of Education, African American students are arrested far more often than their white classmates. The data showed that 96,000 students were arrested and 242,000 referred to law enforcement by schools during the 2009-10 school year. Of those students, black and Hispanic students made up more than 70 percent of arrested or referred students. Harsh school punishments, from suspensions to arrests, have led to high numbers of youth of color coming into contact with the juvenile-justice system and at an earlier age.

5. African American youth have higher rates of juvenile incarceration and are more likely to be sentenced to adult prison. According to theSentencing Project, even though African American juvenile youth are about 16 percent of the youth population, 37 percent of their cases are moved to criminal court and 58 percent of African American youth are sent to adult prisons.

6. As the number of women incarcerated has increased by 800 percentover the last three decades, women of color have been disproportionately represented. While the number of women incarcerated is relatively low, the racial and ethnic disparities are startling. African American women arethree times more likely than white women to be incarcerated, while Hispanic women are 69 percent more likely than white women to be incarcerated.

7. The war on drugs has been waged primarily in communities of color where people of color are more likely to receive higher offenses.According to the Human Rights Watch, people of color are no more likely to use or sell illegal drugs than whites, but they have higher rate of arrests. African Americans comprise 14 percent of regular drug users but are 37 percent of those arrested for drug offenses. From 1980 to 2007 about one in three of the 25.4 million adults arrested for drugs was African American.

8. Once convicted, black offenders receive longer sentences compared to white offenders. The U.S. Sentencing Commission stated that in the federal system black offenders receive sentences that are 10 percent longer than white offenders for the same crimes. The Sentencing Project reports that African Americans are 21 percent more likely to receive mandatory-minimum sentences than white defendants and are 20 percent more like to be sentenced to prison.

9. Voter laws that prohibit people with felony convictions to vote disproportionately impact men of color. An estimated 5.3 million Americans are denied the right to vote based on a past felony conviction. Felony disenfranchisement is exaggerated by racial disparities in the criminal-justice system, ultimately denying 13 percent of African American men the right to vote. Felony-disenfranchisement policies have led to 11 states denying the right to vote to more than 10 percent of their African American population.

10. Studies have shown that people of color face disparities in wage trajectory following release from prison. Evidence shows that spending time in prison affects wage trajectories with a disproportionate impact on black men and women. The results show no evidence of racial divergence in wages prior to incarceration; however, following release from prison, wages grow at a 21 percent slower rate for black former inmates compared to white ex-convicts. A number of states have bans on people with certain convictions working in domestic health-service industries such as nursing, child care, and home health care–areas in which many poor women and women of color are disproportionately concentrated.

Theses racial disparities have deprived people of color of their most basic civil rights, making criminal-justice reform the civil rights issue of our time.
Through mass imprisonment and the overrepresentation of individuals of color within the criminal justice and prison system, people of color have experienced an adverse impact on themselves and on their communities from barriers to reintegrating into society to engaging in the democratic process.

Eliminating the racial disparities inherent to our nation’s criminal-justice policies and practices must be at the heart of a renewed, refocused, and reenergized movement for racial justice in America.

There have been a number of initiatives on the state and federal level to address the racial disparities in youth incarceration.
Last summer Secretary of Education Arne Duncan announced the Schools Discipline Initiative to bring increased awareness of effective policies and practices to ultimately dismantle the school-to-prison pipeline.

States like California and Massachusetts are considering legislation to address the disproportionate suspensions among students of color.
And in Clayton County, Georgia, collaborative local reforms have resulted in a 47 percent reduction in juvenile-court referrals and a 51 percent decrease in juvenile felony rates.

These initiatives could serve as models of success for lessening the disparities in incarceration rates.

 

[Skarekrow]

You are not getting the foundation of what i am saying so lets try this. Supposing their is an issue with police treating black people differently, whats your solution to that? Whats any solution to that? If the person is racist do you think talking to them about it is going to chanve their mind? Nit at tbat age. So whats the solution? All black cops in predominantly black neighborhoods? Is that even legistically possible? That doesnt take care of the other psychological problems many officers seem to have. Then we just have black cops killing black people instead of white cops killing black people.
So again, real solutions. Screening before hiring or training and then yearly psychological exams. Now many might decry this as cop hating but theres no other job where you have the right to use force at your discretion against citizens. It seems to be common sense in my mind.

If it takes some sort of racial engine to make these things happen...whatever I guess.

We hold people accountable.
I like the idea of the button-hole cameras but let me just point out that Eric Gardner’s death was on film and it hasn’t made a bit of difference.

Racism should never be tolerated…especially in a police force who are tasked with protecting the people no matter their race.
But we are seeing people being disenfranchised by the system because they are black and for no other reason.

If you are a cop and you do not treat everyone equally and cannot do your job in an unbiased manner then you should not be policing.

There is a problem not only within the police force but within society itself that translates through the actions of these cops.
We need to have a serious talk about race in this nation…we have always had issues with racism…even going back to the hatred for the Irish or putting the Japanese-americans into prison camps in the desert…but blacks just barely got the right to vote a few decades ago…those attitudes and ideas have not died yet…they are still very much alive and kicking.

To make it stop…we must hold those accountable.
To say that there should not even be a trial to look at the evidence when Mike Brown was shot was ridiculous…if anything, to find out what really took place.
An unarmed teen was killed by a cop…we will never know what really happened because it’s been buried.
The same with Eric Gardner.
The cop who choked him should be held accountable for his illegal chokehold that is NOT supposed to be used for just this reason.
Just saying.

 

[sassafras]

The issue that people don't seem to see is that people are not getting riled up because of one or two cases; rather, the cases themselves serve as a very powerful macrocosm for the racial attitudes and prejudices that permeate the social fabric of this country. Do I think its convenient that the media kind of has a theme going on lately? Yeah, I do and I'm side-eyeing that as a side issue (the media is always sensationalist and we all know this), but at the same time, I don't think they're wrong.

There is definitely an imbalance in the justice system and its skewed very unfavorably to racial minorities, especially towards blacks and hispanics. If anyone cannot see that, with or without the media trumpeting the issue, they are either highly selective in what they pay attention to, or otherwise fear that acquiescing to the issue will have negative consequences in society and perhaps for them directly.

 

[Skarekrow]

A must see!!

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/a9bg2k/the-eric-garner-grand-jury-decision

 

[Eventhorizon]

We hold people accountable.
I like the idea of the button-hole cameras but let me just point out that Eric Gardner’s death was on film and it hasn’t made a bit of difference.

Racism should never be tolerated…especially in a police force who are tasked with protecting the people no matter their race.
But we are seeing people being disenfranchised by the system because they are black and for no other reason.

If you are a cop and you do not treat everyone equally and cannot do your job in an unbiased manner then you should not be policing.

There is a problem not only within the police force but within society itself that translates through the actions of these cops.
We need to have a serious talk about race in this nation…we have always had issues with racism…even going back to the hatred for the Irish or putting the Japanese-americans into prison camps in the desert…but blacks just barely got the right to vote a few decades ago…those attitudes and ideas have not died yet…they are still very much alive and kicking.

To make it stop…we must hold those accountable.
To say that there should not even be a trial to look at the evidence when Mike Brown was shot was ridiculous…if anything, to find out what really took place.
An unarmed teen was killed by a cop…we will never know what really happened because it’s been buried.
The same with Eric Gardner.
The cop who choked him should be held accountable for his illegal chokehold that is NOT supposed to be used for just this reason.
Just saying.

Hold them accountable? Yes of course. That is supposed to be how things work. But thats not how they are working. So recognizing that needs to change and that it infuses all aspects of our justice system...you know the same people that would make the laws to change this, how do you propose this takes place?
You keep bringing up race. You see it as a larger issue than I do. I personally feel people are being given things they should not be given because of their minority status. No one should be given anything different because of their race.
Are there still races issue in the country? Obviously but the way that changes is the same way it chaged here on the east coast. You start in the schools and work your way out. It can clearly be done because coastal cities dont have near the issue that the interior of the country does.

However the idea that all minorities issues are being caused by something other than what they allow within their own is honestly annoying. The more I hear it the more I want to sit back and watch them rot. Hold them accountable as well.

 

[cvp12gh5]

[MENTION=1939]Stu[/MENTION] [MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]

Of course there will be more black men killed by white cops; and that's because there are more white than non-white cops. There is a significant shortage of non-whites in the police force. And why is that? Because they aren't training and applying for the position.

If I exceled at working with technology, would I go for a job at a hair salon? No. It's not what I'm interested in. Point being, you can't hire someone for a position unless they have an interest in applying and training for it. Simple enough.

Anyhow, to even get a good understanding of the numbers (when comparing white/black police related deaths), you would also need to factor in the consequences surrounding the shooting. What happened that caused the officer to shoot? That data is important, yet they don't collect it like they should. I'm sure that if they did, it would show that (the majority of the time) the officer had a good reason to take fire. So, no, it's not always about race.
Yes...white officers kill black men, but they also kill white men. And black officers kill black men and white men too.

I'm still trying to find the report I read and I will post it once I do, but the data stood out in my mind, so I am confident that the numbers I am about to give you are correct.

It stated that out of the police related shootings that occurred in the U.S., 10% of them were done by black officers. Out of that 10%, a whopping 78% of the victims were black. So does this mean that black officers are targeting black men? Should we call that racism? Or do we look at the situation for what it is: a black officer shooting at a suspect because he was a threat to him or the public, regardless of color.

Here's more. 91% of whites killed by police are killed by white cops. 68% of non-whites were killed by a white cop. If you take all the numbers and smash them together, white police officers are responsible for killing 46% of the non-whites. So who is responsible for the other 54%?

Now I'm not saying that there aren't any racist cops out, because there are. But that doesn't make them all bad people.
I don't know if the cop that put a chokehold on Garner was a racist, but I do know that what went down looked bad. Did he mean to kill the guy? No. He most definitely did not. He wasn't aware that the guy had asthma. Do I think the chokehold and how they brought Garner down was overly aggressive? Hell yeah. The guy was huge, probably why they felt the need to jump on him all at once for an arrest. And he was definitely going to be arrested and he knew that. He was put in jail 2 months earlier for the same offense. Garner was telling them to leave him alone. He was upset because he knew. I'm sure the officers thought he wasn't going to be taken in without a fight by his emotional reaction. So they jumped on him. How could they have known that he had asthma or would go into a cardiac arrest within minutes? I'm not making excuses for them. What I'm doing is showing you how the grand jury came to this decision. They weren't looking to kill the guy.

I think it's also fair to point out the type of policing used in the New York Police Department. They strongly believe in the broken windows theory. If you put a stop to low level crimes then you can prevent more serious crimes. The police there are trained for this; arresting people for these type of low level crimes is a common everyday occurrence. We may think that it was a stupid thing to be arrested over, but there is a reason why they do it. They believe that this strategy helps in keeping their streets safer in the long run.

Yes, they were aggressive, but there was no way that they could have known that it would end like that. To the grand jury, they were doing their job and someone accidentally died during it due to a health condition. If Mr. Garner didn't want to have another run-in with the cops, he probably shouldn't have been doing something that got him arrested two months prior.

A grand jury's job is to consider everything involved; not just the video.

 

[Skarekrow]

Hold them accountable? Yes of course. That is supposed to be how things work. But thats not how they are working. So recognizing that needs to change and that it infuses all aspects of our justice system...you know the same people that would make the laws to change this, how do you propose this takes place?
You keep bringing up race. You see it as a larger issue than I do. I personally feel people are being given things they should not be given because of their minority status. No one should be given anything different because of their race.
Are there still races issue in the country? Obviously but the way that changes is the same way it chaged here on the east coast. You start in the schools and work your way out. It can clearly be done because coastal cities dont have near the issue that the interior of the country does.

However the idea that all minorities issues are being caused by something other than what they allow within their own is honestly annoying. The more I hear it the more I want to sit back and watch them rot. Hold them accountable as well.

We should hold everyone accountable yes.
The issue is systemic because there are clearly those who are still very racist…and there are those who are black and just as racist…I am not saying that accountability all around isn’t a much needed thing in this country.

But I have to agree with those who say the cards are stacked against them…because some people really do run the gambit of shit from the day their were born.
I know that doesn’t count for everyone…but there clearly are another set of rules and laws that they live under in the US. Just as we live under a separate set of laws from that of the famous…and they even under those who are bankers…all live under smaller and smaller sets of rules.
There IS a conflict of interest having the private prison complex making huge profits for maximum incarceration.
That is fucking wrong.

Alas…you know my ultimate opinion that this nation is going to crash and burn really well fairly soon.
I don’t think anything will really get changed until after that time.