Fear of an INFJ

Wyote said:
INFJs are pretty fucking terrifying
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JustPhil said:
I was with you there and possibly still are from time to time .. I think a lot of what I do sometimes is to bring me to the brink of being so totally alone so that I can force myself to overcome it.

In fact I tried on two occasions and hated it so much I came back. but then I was (I say now) fortunate to have my partner leave me. She was my only real friend for fifteen years as I didn't feel I needed anyone else.

I was so abysmally lonely I would cry in the middle of the night. I would envision the horrors of what lay ahead of me as the loneliest person in the world and I would be terrified.

But then I noticed that any new friends I would make I was pushing away. Thinking about it I came to the conclusion that maybe this was a test I had to take. That is to be alone as possible.

So slowly any new friendships I had made dissolved. I have just changed jobs and not made any new friends there so that is lonely as well. I have nothing to do most nights but go for walks and think - and that is what i do - walk and think.

And you know what .. society has taught us to hate being alone but for me I am not finding it that bad after all. I just figured I would face that which I was scared of.

I know I want someone in my life, but I don't think that I can right now, not until I have conquered this fear of being lonely, otherwise I will always be lonely, with someone, by myself, with a million people around me.

Even though I still dislike being alone and loneliness, I have realised that I have my own imagination, my own mind to keep me company. Sometimes I bore myself :) but all in all I can say I can get by quite nicely.
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I like that. What you said is very nice and helpful. But that pain clearly still racks in your veins, and so does mine. Mine, however, won't go away anytime soon, or at all. I'm already in a bad mood because I'm very, very lonely as always and nothing I try is ever successful, so I'm not going to write anything else until I've calmed down.
 
Trifoilum said:
Within the scope of an INFJ (or any MBTI code you are), what do you most afraid of? Of the world? Of yourself?
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Just love this kind of question.

Well…. I'm not really afraid…. sometimes I must be careful not to silence my emotions. I found my self able to shout out all the emotion and I really liked it. It was quite inside me, I was in peace with me and the world outside but when I opened the door it was painfull and I was afraid.

Emotions are an integral part of us but by dint of feeling almost only the negative ones coming from others I get tired.

so….. maybe I'm afraid to shut the door again and again hurting people near me.

I'm afraid of what I can do:unhappy:

Am I the only one????
 
Trifoilum said:
Within the scope of an INFJ (or any MBTI code you are), what do you most afraid of? Of the world? Of yourself?
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Infjente said:
Unforseen corruption.
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Do you mean corruption of yourself or others?

I fear being denied the truth. Betrayal, treason, lies, liars, &c.

'Within the scope' of INTJ, I suppose this could be related to that tertiary Fi - that when we trust, we trust like children. Very ideal and naive in actuality, until it gets torn to shreds by Te cynicism and realism.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Do you mean corruption of yourself or others?

I fear being denied the truth. Betrayal, treason, lies, liars, &c.

'Within the scope' of INTJ, I suppose this could be related to that tertiary Fi - that when we trust, we trust like children. Very ideal and naive in actuality, until it gets torn to shreds by Te cynicism and realism.
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I think corruption as a trait in myself and others is my blindspot (I use a lot of energy to detect it in myself and others and protect myself and others from it). I'm not afraid of lies and betrayal because it doesn't distort the truth for me (it's just another part of it), and it's not necessarily an "evil" act, it could for instance be a result of fear/escape from something unbearable. Corruption is giving oneself the right to manipulate and control the truth for ones own advantage/gain. To me corruption is the worst threat to 'the truth', because ego and truth don't mix well together.

Hmmm ... To me it's all about the intentions of others (and myself). If I'm being lied to, the act of lying doesn't mean much by itself. A lie can be an act of love, self-defense, hate, greed, or whatever, it's the intention behind it I care about.

To you the intention is irrelevant compared to the act itself? Maybe that's what blind Fe (socionics) is like? You have to work extra hard to figure out intentions, like I have to work extra hard to detect corruption (blind Te???)? Hm hm hm. .. Do you see corruption everywhere (where I see intentions)? :tearsofjoy::sweatsmile:
 
Fascinating answer, Innie.

Infjente said:
I think corruption as a trait in myself and others is my blindspot (I use a lot of energy to detect it in myself and others and protect myself and others from it). I'm not afraid of lies and betrayal because it doesn't distort the truth for me (it's just another part of it), and it's not necessarily an "evil" act, it could for instance be a result of fear/escape from something unbearable. Corruption is giving oneself the right to manipulate and control the truth for ones own advantage/gain. To me corruption is the worst threat to 'the truth', because ego and truth don't mix well together.
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Corruption is giving oneself the right to manipulate and control the truth for one's own advantage/gain.

I think lying is intrinsically evil/wrong based on the (Kantian) understanding that human beings are ends in themselves, and rely on the truth in order to make rational decisions. If a human being doesn't have access to the truth, their capacity to make free choices about their own lives in impaired - when we lie to someone, whatever the motivation, we've taken their choice and therefore their freedom. We've made them slaves.

Hmmm ... To me it's all about the intentions of others (and myself). If I'm being lied to, the act of lying doesn't mean much by itself. A lie can be an act of love, self-defense, hate, greed, or whatever, it's the intention behind it I care about.
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Again, the intention is irrelevant because no one has the right to dictate the reality of others. I made you a slave for your own good. To be denied this freedom, even if the liar has our best interests at heart, is the worst insult imaginable to me - having truth is inseparable from having freedom to me. The act of lying is the harm.

To you the intention is irrelevant compared to the act itself? Maybe that's what blind Fe (socionics) is like? You have to work extra hard to figure out intentions, like I have to work extra hard to detect corruption (blind Te???)? Hm hm hm. .. Do you see corruption everywhere (where I see intentions)? :tearsofjoy::sweatsmile:
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Exactly as you say - to me the intention is irrelevant, because lying is a terrible act in itself.

Hmm... do I have to work extra hard to figure out intentions? This is really difficult (and hence interesting), because what you're asking is something like 'what are your fundamental fears and concerns when interacting with people (specifically in trust-based scenarios)?' I'll have to come back to this.

For me, I don't see corruption everywhere (I tend to think most people are 'good' but 'weak'), but I am very sensitive to it, and it's easy to detect. For example, a turn of phrase, a hesitation, or change in eye movement can indicate if a person has tricked themselves into thinking that their course of action is acceptable. I can detect self-deception and straying from a principle ('corruption', including 'white lies') better than I can detect 'intentions' I think. Or rather, I care more about it than I care about intentions. I almost don't care about 'intentions', really - maybe they're obvious to me based on the simple fact of strategic positioning between individuals. 'Intentions' are almost an automatic result of where people are positioned in relation to each other, and so I don't really have to ask to figure out what your probable intentions are. I would say this is Te - being aware of the 'strategic web' individuals are positioned within.

Maybe I would have trouble if someone has intentions that contradicts their position, because I have an overconfidence in 'the map' of position.


P.S. Or in other words, I know intentions based on strategic position (Te) rather than feeling intentions based upon how an individual interacts (Fe). I impute intentions based upon someone's place within a functional social system, mediated by the things they say, how they behave and the ideals they hold.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Fascinating answer, Innie.


Corruption is giving oneself the right to manipulate and control the truth for one's own advantage/gain.

I think lying is intrinsically evil/wrong based on the (Kantian) understanding that human beings are ends in themselves, and rely on the truth in order to make rational decisions. If a human being doesn't have access to the truth, their capacity to make free choices about their own lives in impaired - when we lie to someone, whatever the motivation, we've taken their choice and therefore their freedom. We've made them slaves.


Again, the intention is irrelevant because no one has the right to dictate the reality of others. I made you a slave for your own good. To be denied this freedom, even if the liar has our best interests at heart, is the worst insult imaginable to me - having truth is inseparable from having freedom to me. The act of lying is the harm.


Exactly as you say - to me the intention is irrelevant, because lying is a terrible act in itself.

Hmm... do I have to work extra hard to figure out intentions? This is really difficult (and hence interesting), because what you're asking is something like 'what are your fundamental fears and concerns when interacting with people (specifically in trust-based scenarios)?' I'll have to come back to this.

For me, I don't see corruption everywhere (I tend to think most people are 'good' but 'weak'), but I am very sensitive to it, and it's easy to detect. For example, a turn of phrase, a hesitation, or change in eye movement can indicate if a person has tricked themselves into thinking that their course of action is acceptable. I can detect self-deception and straying from a principle ('corruption', including 'white lies') better than I can detect 'intentions' I think. Or rather, I care more about it than I care about intentions. I almost don't care about 'intentions', really - maybe they're obvious to me based on the simple fact of strategic positioning between individuals. 'Intentions' are almost an automatic result of where people are positioned in relation to each other, and so I don't really have to ask to figure out what your probable intentions are. I would say this is Te - being aware of the 'strategic web' individuals are positioned within.

Maybe I would have trouble if someone has intentions that contradicts their position, because I have an overconfidence in 'the map' of position.


P.S. Or in other words, I know intentions based on strategic position (Te) rather than feeling intentions based upon how an individual interacts (Fe). I impute intentions based upon someone's place within a functional social system, mediated by the things they say, how they behave and the ideals they hold.
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Fantastic answer! I'm busy right now, so I'll reply a little later.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
I think lying is intrinsically evil/wrong based on the (Kantian) understanding that human beings are ends in themselves, and rely on the truth in order to make rational decisions. If a human being doesn't have access to the truth, their capacity to make free choices about their own lives in impaired - when we lie to someone, whatever the motivation, we've taken their choice and therefore their freedom. We've made them slaves
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Whole heartily agree here. I want the truth in order to make the best decision. I'm not sure where I fall in the intention/corruption discussion yet. Great think piece though. I'll have to think on it.
 
I'm overwhelmed by everything I want to say about this :flushed:

Deleted member 16771 said:
Corruption is giving oneself the right to manipulate and control the truth for one's own advantage/gain.

I think lying is intrinsically evil/wrong based on the (Kantian) understanding that human beings are ends in themselves, and rely on the truth in order to make rational decisions. If a human being doesn't have access to the truth, their capacity to make free choices about their own lives in impaired - when we lie to someone, whatever the motivation, we've taken their choice and therefore their freedom. We've made them slaves.
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I get what you mean! But I think that the need for truth is as strong as the need to withhold it (in people generally). I think that's why I've accepted lies and betrayal as 'human behavior' (not taking/making it personal) so I won't be blinded by it while searching for the underlying truth aka intention (because it's more relevant to me in order to move forward (not very efficient, I know)).

In my mind, the act alone is just half the truth, or the "shell" of the "other" truth. Since I'm basing the "other" truth on my own imagination, I kind of owe people the benefit of the doubt. My nightmare is people who can fool me into believing their self serving intentions are good. If I get in a situation like this, I will need concrete truth to get out, because the abstract has failed me badly. Being denied the truth in a situation like this is emotional kidnapping and torture. Stagnation and regression.

Deleted member 16771 said:
Again, the intention is irrelevant because no one has the right to dictate the reality of others. I made you a slave for your own good. To be denied this freedom, even if the liar has our best interests at heart, is the worst insult imaginable to me - having truth is inseparable from having freedom to me. The act of lying is the harm.
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I half disagree. If people weren't allowed to lie, there wouldn't exist a private self (which is also freedom). The act of demanding the truth could just as well be the harm.

Deleted member 16771 said:
Exactly as you say - to me the intention is irrelevant, because lying is a terrible act in itself.
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It is terrible, but the intention decides how terrible it is(?).

Deleted member 16771 said:
For me, I don't see corruption everywhere (I tend to think most people are 'good' but 'weak'), but I am very sensitive to it, and it's easy to detect. For example, a turn of phrase, a hesitation, or change in eye movement can indicate if a person has tricked themselves into thinking that their course of action is acceptable. I can detect self-deception and straying from a principle ('corruption', including 'white lies') better than I can detect 'intentions' I think. Or rather, I care more about it than I care about intentions. I almost don't care about 'intentions', really - maybe they're obvious to me based on the simple fact of strategic positioning between individuals. 'Intentions' are almost an automatic result of where people are positioned in relation to each other, and so I don't really have to ask to figure out what your probable intentions are. I would say this is Te - being aware of the 'strategic web' individuals are positioned within.
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This is gold. It's the same for me if we swap act with intention. The strategic web you see, I think for me is the defensive web people are positioned in (people protecting their false self).

Oh my God, I'm probably chronicly corrupt :flushed: That's why I can't see it!
 
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