Feminism

[Apone]

Most people tend not to agree on waking up naked in the dark corner of some parking garage with no knowledge of what happened last night.

And no, the history of neither the defendant or the prosecutor is relevant. It doesn't matter who or what you may or may not have slept with in the past, even if it was with the defendant, and it doesn't matter if you were a boy scout leader or a slavering creepazoid who may have a prior record. What is on trial is whether or not a rape occurred.

It depends on the circumstances, but I was under the impression that the most common kind of rape was between people who know each other at least a little bit... not some sort of horrible savage perv attack. If someone wakes up in a parking garage then yeah, that's a pretty sure sign that something is seriously wrong.

But saying that the history of the people involved isn't relevant is mind-boggling. If someone had been arrested for sexual assault in the past, then you think that this should just be ignored?? Or if the defendant had filed false rape claims in the past, then that's all in the past because obviously this time they're telling the truth? It doesn't mean that things aren't different this time, but practically every single legal case from assault to drug dealing to divorce touches on the history of the people involved, especially if it helps the argument. That's just how things work. Otherwise you'd have pedophiles teaching kindergarten and drug dealers working at pharmacies.

#1 - The problem with "no means no" campaigns is that consent isn't decided by the absence of a "no". It's decided by the absence of a "yes".

#2 - I would be curious as to the rate of sexual assault in that area compared to national averages and/or the rate on campuses without such programs.

I was bringing this up because you seemed to be saying that most anti-rape campaigns target the potential victims... and this is one that targeted the potential perpetrators, and did in fact teach 'don't rape'. Whether or not it's effective wasn't really the point... it's understandable that the copywriters thought that it seemed like a pretty good way to establish a set of guidelines. Come to think of it, I remember seeing posters in high school (uni?) about all of the things that meant 'no', and it definitely wasn't limited to just a verbal no.

I'm not really sure if it changed things, but if it didn't then that could be a possible explanation as to why they switched their strategy... it has nothing to do with institutional oppression and everything to do with salesmanship-- whether or not it helps people feel good about themselves isn't the point, the point is to get the numbers that you want, and to find the best way to get people to respond.. which is harder than it sounds, because understanding things like this really isn't the easiest thing in the world.

 

[Cornerstone]

Otherwise you'd have pedophiles teaching kindergarten and drug dealers working at pharmacies.

Yeah, enough is enough.

 

[Cornerstone]

Otherwise you'd have pedophiles teaching kindergarten and drug dealers working at pharmacies.

Yeah, the former of those two things is very bad indeed!

 

[grt$5vb]

I do subscribe to feminism, though not to the extreme and it's probably an ego thing, because my faith tells me to submit to my husband and trust him to lead and I really just want an equal partner.

@UBERROGO I just watched a helpful documentary on the objectification of women that might be of interest to you. http://www.missrepresentation.org/the-film/

Haha, it's actually airing on OWN tomorrow. I found it at the library.

 

[alice144]

Things like this http://www.reddit.com/comments/144smz I feel like I am just missing the whole point of it, or maybe she is idk. Because I was born out of a woman I need feminism? Why?

You don't get it because you're not a woman. Which is not to say that you can't get it, but rather that you're less motivated to get it.

It seems like feminists get a lot of bad press these days. I was telling my friend about Simone de Beauvoir, and encouraging her to read The Second Sex, and she asked me, "she's not one of those bra-burning radicals, is she?". Which is sad, because de Beauvoir was one of the greatest thinkers of the last century. It's sad that she didn't know who she was, and it's sad that she immediately jumped to that conclusion.

Also, that book changed my life. It clarified a bunch of stuff which I'd been thinking about for a long time, but didn't know how to say. I've never been able to look at anything the same way since.

If feminism seems like a religion, it's probably because there are a lot of pretty frustrated women out there. If you've been paying attention to some of the crap going on in the news recently, it's not hard to see why. My perception of it is that it's the anti-feminists who are more vocal than the feminists themselves. But probably you don't agree.

 

[Apone]

If you've been paying attention to some of the crap going on in the news recently, it's not hard to see why.

What crap?

 

[the]

You don't get it because you're not a woman. Which is not to say that you can't get it, but rather that you're less motivated to get it.

It seems like feminists get a lot of bad press these days. I was telling my friend about Simone de Beauvoir, and encouraging her to read The Second Sex, and she asked me, "she's not one of those bra-burning radicals, is she?". Which is sad, because de Beauvoir was one of the greatest thinkers of the last century. It's sad that she didn't know who she was, and it's sad that she immediately jumped to that conclusion.

Also, that book changed my life. It clarified a bunch of stuff which I'd been thinking about for a long time, but didn't know how to say. I've never been able to look at anything the same way since.

If feminism seems like a religion, it's probably because there are a lot of pretty frustrated women out there. If you've been paying attention to some of the crap going on in the news recently, it's not hard to see why. My perception of it is that it's the anti-feminists who are more vocal than the feminists themselves. But probably you don't agree.

I'm going to start all explanations out with: you don't get it cause you're a man, and end all of them with: you probably don't agree. That's the best way to frame all discussion replies and to not come off as a pretentious asshole.

 

[Apone]

Here's an interesting video.
A former feminist (first wave/women's lib) talks about second wave (new) feminism and its effect on education.

[video=youtube;cqOTj9NDv80]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqOTj9NDv80[/video]

Say what you will, but I can't find so many offensive things about her lecture.

 

[Matt3737]

I was telling my friend about Simone de Beauvoir, and encouraging her to read The Second Sex, and she asked me, "she's not one of those bra-burning radicals, is she?". Which is sad, because de Beauvoir was one of the greatest thinkers of the last century. It's sad that she didn't know who she was, and it's sad that she immediately jumped to that conclusion.

It seems sad to me that a work of self-loathing should be admired.

“What a curse to be a woman!” Beauvoir writes, quoting Kierkegaard. “And yet the very worst curse when one is a woman is, in fact, not to understand that it is one.” No one has done more than Beauvoir to explain the conditions of that curse, and no one has more eloquently, irately challenged us to turn that curse into a blessing.

NYTimes Book Review

Never mind that the idiom is of something being both a blessing and a curse rather than one or the other.

 

[Apone]

[video=youtube;GpDnr2s9yxQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpDnr2s9yxQ[/video]

MERRY CHRISTMAS

This video is a perfect example of 2000's feminism.

My favorite part:

From the 'All I Want For Christmas Is You' critique.

'The song implies that women cannot be happy without a man in their life'
'When males cover it (same lyrics), it is creepy and stalkerish.'

 

[bamf]

[video=youtube;GpDnr2s9yxQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpDnr2s9yxQ[/video]

MERRY CHRISTMAS

This video is a shitty example of 2000s feminism.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Apone]

Fixed that for you.

LOLOLLOLOL

That was really awesome how you just changed my post like that and didn't actually provide a counter-argument.

 

[Matt3737]

LOLOLLOLOL

That was really awesome how you just changed my post like that and didn't actually provide a counter-argument.

I thought you were mocking the video. Were you being serious?

Edit: I thought bamf was mocking the video as well. I see maybe he was being serious whereas you were mocking it? I cannot tell who is being serious or sarcastic.

 

[Apone]

I thought you were mocking the video. Were you being serious?

Edit: I thought bamf was mocking the video as well. I see maybe he was being serious whereas you were mocking it? I cannot tell who is being serious or sarcastic.

I was criticizing it and saying that it is an example of what feminism has become.
As far as I can tell, bamf seems to think that it's not what feminism has become and that this is just an anomaly.
An anomaly with close to 40,000 subscribers.
Maybe most of them are haters?

 

[bamf]

LOLOLLOLOL

That was really awesome how you just changed my post like that and didn't actually provide a counter-argument.

I did. Your argument was that it was a perfect example. My argument is that it is a shitty example. You provided a video of moronic arguments and claimed that 40k people subscribe to the poster, therefor the video is an example of current feminism. I'm saying that it's a moronic video that doesn't actually display the traits and qualities of current feminism. I don't need to provide an amazing counter-argument when the argument that is presented to me is weak.

EDIT: I also let my inner grammar-nazi show when I fixed the apostrophe error. Honestly, that was the most grating part of the post for me.

 

[Apone]

I don't need to provide an amazing counter-argument when the argument that is presented to me is weak.

So why did you even bother commenting in the first place?

 

[bamf]

So why did you even bother commenting in the first place?

Because it was a weak and misleading example of feminism. Why wouldn't I comment and say that I disagree?

 

[Apone]

Because it was a weak and misleading example of feminism. Why wouldn't I comment and say that I disagree?

Because you've managed to say, prove, and accomplish absolutely nothing.
You've actually accomplished less than I have by posting that apparently irrelevant video.

 

[bamf]

Because you've managed to say, prove, and accomplish absolutely nothing.
You've actually accomplished less than I have by posting that apparently irrelevant video.

Actually, I made the statement that your video does not represent modern feminism. I accomplished just as much as you did. You made a declaratory statement that modern feminism is moronic and grasping at straws. I made a declaratory statement that you misrepresented modern feminism. Not that hard to see. Also, we're getting off topic. You can respond to this, but I'm outtie.

 

[Apone]

Actually, I made the statement that your video does not represent modern feminism. I accomplished just as much as you did. You made a declaratory statement that modern feminism is moronic and grasping at straws. I made a declaratory statement that you misrepresented modern feminism. Not that hard to see. Also, we're getting off topic. You can respond to this, but I'm outtie.

Wow, I guess it's just really obvious that the video doesn't represent modern feminism at all. I mean, it's just so obvious. You obviously know exactly what you're talking about and don't even have to post examples, because it's just so obvious.

I have learned so much on this day.