For Women

[Asa]

Now I want to give you all hugs.

@CaitlinRae2192 - Your situation sounds unique. It sounds like a pressure cooker. I'm thankful you made it through. <3 It isn't surprising that your mother had issues stemming from your brother's death. I'm so sorry for your loss and for what you endured.
What do you want your relationship with your mother to be? It would be understandable if you didn't want anything to do with her, but by writing this post it seems like you are trying to find a way to form a healthier relationship with her.

My mother and I didn't get along when I was a teen, which I think is normal, though her methods of molding me into what she wanted me to be were extreme. (I won't get into it right now.) Our relationship was explosive until about a year before she got cancer. I helped care for her, and during that time we became close. I was 24 when she died. I could say a lot about my relationship with my mother, but I'd rather focus on all of you.


@acd – Your childhood sounds intense, too. You're not the only person I know who was part of an abusive family but was never the target of the aggression, and I recognize your trauma. It sounds like your husband understands, and I'm thankful your mom is beginning to understand, too. Hopefully, she won't keep resenting you. It's common, even in households without abuse, for the mother-daughter relationship to be strained while the mother-son relationship is close. There are all kinds of studies and theories about why, including mothers viewing their daughters as competition, mothers feeling rejected when the daughter doesn't want the same life, and how the patriarchy limits women's lives and resources, including the attention women are allowed to receive, so both the mother and daughter compete for social resources, and those resources (like affection) aren't freely given to girls (partly to prepare the girl for the world ahead), while the boy child receives unlimited attention and affection from the mother. Ugh. Your situation is different because, in your mother's eyes, you seemed charmed... you weren't abused...while she and your brother were.

Your husband must know why you want certain parenting methods and why you are so strict about being too harsh. <3 The way he just left when you asked him to makes it seem like he understands.

 

[HJpAjcdO0X]

She was like, "No one ever hurt you! You are fine!"

Idk why people think they have the right to tell you how you felt or how you should feel about trauma. I'm sorry if for the longest time you were dismissed on the scars that left mentally, just because you didn't recieve the same doesn't mean you had it easier, its not a competition of traumas. My mom has a bad habit of doing that too. She has depression and though Ive been diagnosed with PTSD, a new diagnoses of being on the spectrum/high functioning, and generalized anxiety disorder she dismisses them. Much like when I was a teenager and tried 7 different ssris in a year, it wasnt until I saw an actual psychiatrist in my adult years that I actually started to get proper treatment.

"Caitlin if you had autism you wouldn't be able to talk let alone live independently. Remember William?"
(Completely different type of autism but okay)

"Try having chronic depression, then tell me about mental illness."

When I was a teenager "Just eat and stop looking for attention c'mon now." I later learned that eating disorders are closer related to ocd, a coping mechanism for control when you feel like you have no control of the chaos.

I don't doubt or dismiss her ptsd from my brothers suicide of course not. After all we both walked in to find him with a shattered bullet in his head and he was still somehow walking around, it looked like a crime scene. In her panic of trying to attend to him, reading a suicide note calling, the paramedics she forgot I was there, which I can understand where her mind was. I remember sitting next to him at the kitchen table with the entry wound still trickling fresh blood with every heartbeat. At 7/8 years old thats A LOT to process. The smell of copper from blood still throws me back, as do paramedics reading stats over their radio.

I'm hypervigilant of danger. If his dad yells or starts just acting frustrated it triggers me.

I can relate here, an angry father leaves it's mark, whether it's physical or not. After my brother passed my dad was just angry about anything and everything, understandable to a point. It was that type of anger that could be felt without him yelling. He got better after about 8 years but it's a reflex to assume he is going to blow if he's quiet or a bit snippy.

I'm glad to hear you might have had some sort of breakthrough with your mom. I hope your relationship with her continues to improve from here on out.

 

[mintoots]

@Asa

Idk if it works but it looks interesting https://goldgirl.store/product/one-...yu-k-R4bD97taAoCZY6O_vKJnelJI1uwE63HqsFVd-H8g

 

[Asa]

@Asa

Idk if it works but it looks interesting https://goldgirl.store/product/one-...yu-k-R4bD97taAoCZY6O_vKJnelJI1uwE63HqsFVd-H8g

Thank you.

 

[HJpAjcdO0X]

What do you want your relationship with your mother to be? It would be understandable if you didn't want anything to do with her, but by writing this post it seems like you are trying to find a way to form a healthier relationship with her.

I just want her to have the same respect for my mental illnesses as I do her. After my childhood, and hellacious divorce from my narc ex husband I wish she would see in healing there is a reason I don't tolerate maltreatment the same. She believes no matter how bad a family member treats you, stuff it down, be civil, and stay loyal. I don't, I'm NOT dealing with manipulative and dirty tactics just because they are a family. The more I stand up for myself the more it pisses her off.

though her methods of molding me into what she wanted me to be were extreme.

My mom is very stuck in traditional gender roles. She has never pumped gas in her life, "unlady like". She hates that I prefer to wear practical clothing most often jeans, a t-shirt, flannels, boots. I've come to love learning to fix things mechanically, stuff my dad always did himself but can no longer do. For example we have wood heat (my dad was a logger for 30 years) and I actually enjoy doing firewood annually. I'd rather run some type of machinery in the woods than go for a job as a bank teller or nurse, jobs she feels are more feminine.
Plus, dirt, oil, gas..approriate clothing seems logical over a sun dress. "Now why can't you dress like so and so Caitlin, I used to dress you so cute. You look so nice in pink, or violet so what is this preference for black?" My tattoos are mostly a lot of symbols that mean something to me. She wonders why they can't be more feminine like a butterfly or pretty flower. Cool for other people but it's just not me, so stop trying to make it that way and accept me for who I am.

Our relationship was explosive until about a year before she got cancer. I helped care for her, and during that time we became close. I was 24 when she died.

Did you feel like you ever got some sort of closure or understanding in the end?

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

My relationship with my mum & sisters has been nothing short of complicated. A lot of love and grief.
We're still a family though. It's something to be grateful for.

 

[Asa]

I just want her to have the same respect for my mental illnesses as I do her. After my childhood, and hellacious divorce from my narc ex husband I wish she would see in healing there is a reason I don't tolerate maltreatment the same. She believes no matter how bad a family member treats you, stuff it down, be civil, and stay loyal. I don't, I'm NOT dealing with manipulative and dirty tactics just because they are a family. The more I stand up for myself the more it pisses her off.

I agree with you. Loyalty is a two-way street. To earn loyalty you have to treat the person (you want to be loyal to you) with respect. Manipulation and tactics are disrespectful. I hope this changes for your family members, but sometimes the people who need to change and heal the most make the least effort.

My mom is very stuck in traditional gender roles. She has never pumped gas in her life, "unlady like". She hates that I prefer to wear practical clothing most often jeans, a t-shirt, flannels, boots. I've come to love learning to fix things mechanically, stuff my dad always did himself but can no longer do. For example we have wood heat (my dad was a logger for 30 years) and I actually enjoy doing firewood annually. I'd rather run some type of machinery in the woods than go for a job as a bank teller or nurse, jobs she feels are more feminine.
Plus, dirt, oil, gas..approriate clothing seems logical over a sun dress. "Now why can't you dress like so and so Caitlin, I used to dress you so cute. You look so nice in pink, or violet so what is this preference for black?" My tattoos are mostly a lot of symbols that mean something to me. She wonders why they can't be more feminine like a butterfly or pretty flower. Cool for other people but it's just not me, so stop trying to make it that way and accept me for who I am.

This is relatable. My mother wanted traditional gender roles for me as well. I'm sort of in-between "girly" and (for lack of a better word) "tomboy".

Did you feel like you ever got some sort of closure or understanding in the end?

We did bond and become close during her last few years. I'm not sure if it was closure, but we resolved our differences and accepted each other. I'm not sure how I feel about the concept of closure.

 

[ESC2367]

i've this lingering feeling that is kinda ingrained in me... because i was born AMAB... that i cannot fit in to women exclusive things. (it's paired with growing up and having the "this is women's only. you're a male." this was after coming out even... terfs suck...

anyways, i get really scared when i want to become part of this coversation.

I was raped by a gay man who was hiv positive. I didn't even know it was rape until i learned that it was... as penetration is painful... (i have overcome this... it's been 11 years... shortly after coming out as trans and seeking solice at the (now gone) LGBTQ+ center...)


To quickly change subject... i just use concealer, foundation, eye shadow... (to match my skinntone.) mascara, and eyeliner. I would use lipstick as well... but the location i live... is quite right wing and doesn't believe i exist.

My favourite bra types are Tshirt and Sports. I didn't know there was clasp sports bras... i always thought they were pull over... i may have to obtain one...

Ah, yes, periods. i am lucky enough to get mood swings only... no blood here. i was (in theory) born intersex. during puberty i bled small amounts... though i don't know if it was related.

My relationships were often lost mainly for the lack of communication. I am quiet... and really loyal. Nowadays, since a really horrifying relationship with a terf... i've given up on looking for my other half... they probably don't exist. lol


edited for a missed word.

 

[SpecialEdition]

i've this lingering feeling that is kinda ingrained in me... because i was born AMAB... that i cannot fit in to women exclusive things. (it's paired with growing up and having the "this is women's only. you're a male." this was after coming out even... terfs suck...

anyways, i get really scared when i want to become part of this coversation.

I was raped by a gay man who was hiv positive. I didn't even know it was rape until i learned that it was... as penetration is painful... (i have overcome this... it's been 11 years... shortly after coming out as trans and seeking solice at the (now gone) LGBTQ+ center...)


To quickly change subject... i just use concealer, foundation, eye shadow... (to match my skinntone.) mascara, and eyeliner. I would use lipstick as well... but the location i live... is quite right wing and doesn't believe i exist.

My favourite bra types are Tshirt and Sports. I didn't know there was clasp sports bras... i always thought they were pull over... i may have to obtain one...

Ah, yes, periods. i am lucky enough to get mood swings only... no blood here. i was (in theory) born intersex. during puberty i bled small amounts... though i don't know if it was related.

My relationships were often lost mainly for the lack of communication. I am quiet... and really loyal. Nowadays, since a really horrifying relationship with a terf... i've given up on looking for my other half... they probably don't exist. lol


edited for a missed word.

Please do not be afraid here. There is a lot to say about what you shared that I am not sure how to put into words so I will leave it at telling you that you are welcomed and I'm glad you shared.

 

[Asa]

anyways, i get really scared when i want to become part of this conversation.

All women are welcome here. You are welcome here.

Men are also welcome here, btw, as long as they are respectful of the space. That isn't usually a problem with the forum crowd. So if you see peaceful men in this thread – they're welcome.

I was raped by a gay man who was hiv positive. I didn't even know it was rape until i learned that it was... as penetration is painful... (i have overcome this... it's been 11 years... shortly coming out as trans and seeking solice at the (now gone) LGBTQ+ center...)

<hugs> I'm so sorry.

My relationships were often lost mainly for the lack of communication. I am quiet... and really loyal. Nowadays, since a really horrifying relationship with a terf... i've given up on looking for my other half... they probably don't exist. lol

It is so damaging to one's self-esteem and mental health to be in a relationship with someone who does not fully accept and love you. I'm so sorry you experienced this. Terfs suck.
Maybe you can focus on learning communication skills as an introvert on the forum? I don't think that means being chatty.
If you feel accepted and trust each other, and you both have listening skills, sharing necessary information won't be as difficult. I'm not sure how you're supposed to feel trust and acceptance in a relationship with a terf, though.

You're a whole person. <3 You already have both halves. If you want it at some point, maybe you can find another whole person to share with.

To quickly change subject... i just use concealer, foundation, eye shadow... (to match my skinntone.) mascara, and eyeliner. I would use lipstick as well... but the location i live... is quite right wing and doesn't believe i exist.

I have quite a bit to say about those people who don't believe you exist, but I will skip it for now.
This is a familiar conversation, though.
Are you going to try to move at some point?

I've never been much of a lipstick person. It's so inconvenient. Reapplying is too high maintenance for me, and then I can't eat/drink anything. I tried to commit to being more of a lipstick person and then Covid hit and the mask situation ended that. LOL.
Some of my friends are lipstick-only women, though, and they rock it. It really does make a person look polished with little effort.

 

[ESC2367]

I would move if an opportunity arrives... though i am on ssi (dysthymia and agoraphobia.) The move would require a lot of self deciet. (as i would have to make a dozen calls, get credit checked... though no credit, etc.)

i've lived in this environment for 35 years. More accepting places would pose a culture shock... and a few years of getting used to it.

(it's my imposter complex.) Kinda like not feeling like one passes when others say you do. below are two photos... i think... only one shows... however, i recently got the shirts... lol

but this point out my makeup application. (the second image will spark imposter complex... as i feel i do not pass.)

 

[Asa]

@ESC2367 - I love your shirts!!!!! <3


You look beautiful and you're amazing! You pass.

"Passing" is a complex topic. I'm here for it.

As a cis woman, I usually don't enter into conversations my trans friends are having about it because even though I'm empathetic, I don't have the trans woman experience. I understand that passing is important to many trans people, but I also understand if it isn't, and that trans people shouldn't feel pressure to pass.

TBH, I always wonder how many cis women pass. What are women supposed to look like? A high percentage of cis women don't pass the stereotype of how women are "supposed" to look, especially with over-the-top 21st Century make-up and plastic surgery trends. The issue seems more about broadening the definition of how women are "supposed" to look.

I re-watched Red Dawn the other night and was marveling over how fresh-faced complete knock-out, typecast "pretty girl" Lea Thompson was. She doesn't pass current beauty standards.

 

[ESC2367]

Thank you,
to some; passing is important. for others; they are not seeking to pass. Primarily, my case is a manner of self confidence. Which is complex in it's own way. I want to pass, but if i pass... the fear of what all those early trans films persist upon... I live 45 minutes away from where Brandon Teena lived... (Boys Don't Cry) That stigmata kinda persists here. Although his situation is opposite... I have men who often are all like "i am gonna see you as a man because my ego doesn't want me to see you as a woman." (that's how Super Straight was born. lol)


i'll have to watch Red Dawn...

 

[Asa]

Thank you,
to some; passing is important. for others; they are not seeking to pass. Primarily, my case is a manner of self confidence. Which is complex in it's own way. I want to pass, but if i pass... the fear of what all those early trans films persist upon...

There is a big game in womanhood about self-confidence and meeting beauty standards and it can't be won. Now on the other side of this game, at 50, I know it can't be won. Self-confidence has to be about self-acceptance and surrounding yourself with supportive people, whether online or face-to-face. You're allowed to change your mind every single day about whether you want to look natural, polished, in between, edgy, soft... however. The only rule is: Don't let the game win. They just want to sell you low self-esteem so you buy their products or ideals. You're beautiful. You're awesome.

What I described above is just the base point, the jumping-off point, of course. Yes, I realize there are layers to being a trans woman and it is much more complicated, especially with so much ignorance and prejudice. I am supportive of that and know I don't truly understand it. I still think it ultimately has to do with loving who you are, finding supportive people, and building a shield against all the haters.

I live 45 minutes away from where Brandon Teena lived... (Boys Don't Cry) That stigmata kinda persists here. Although his situation is opposite... I have men who often are all like "i am gonna see you as a man because my ego doesn't want me to see you as a woman." (that's how Super Straight was born. lol)

Yikes.
It's familiar. My rural, right-wing hometown lynched a gay teenager in 1979. It was an incredibly oppressive and damaging place responsible for more than one teen suicide of LGBTQX and girls. I got out of there. I understand why you are staying where you are. Maybe you can at least have an online support system. <3

Imagine being so insecure that you actually believe it isn't enough to just say you're straight and you have to add "super" to the description?
Maybe if they ask about your identity, you should tell them you are Superwoman.

i'll have to watch Red Dawn...

LOL. I don't know if Red Dawn is worth watching. It's a cult classic to people who lived through the 80s, but it is pretty cheesy and reads almost like propaganda. Every time I watch a movie from the 80s or 90s, though, I notice the gap in beauty standards. Women were more natural-looking then.

 

[ESC2367]

Beauty standards are really odd. In observation of tik tok and snapchat, there are a lot of concerning filters... which could go either way on one's self image.

I mean it's highly sophisticated technology. :O like it can change the structure of your face. some are jaw dropping at how high tech they seem. Though once the filter's off... and one sees their true image... i am sure some have ended up with depression...

i deleted the apps for the reason, it felt like they were enforcing a certain beauty standard and it's right in our eyes. (pay attention, eye colour surgery will be a thing but would be as painless as a mani-pedi.)

 

[Asa]

Beauty standards are really odd. In observation of tik tok and snapchat, there are a lot of concerning filters... which could go either way on one's self image.

I mean it's highly sophisticated technology. :O like it can change the structure of your face. some are jaw dropping at how high tech they seem. Though once the filter's off... and one sees their true image... i am sure some have ended up with depression...

i deleted the apps for the reason, it felt like they were enforcing a certain beauty standard and it's right in our eyes. (pay attention, eye colour surgery will be a thing but would be as painless as a mani-pedi.)

It seems like society is splitting in two different directions right now.
One branch: We are finally seeing a wide range of beautiful people included in beauty standards and taking roles as models and representatives of beauty.
The Other branch: Crunching down on strict, stereotypical, and impossible to live up to beauty standards driven by apps, make-up, and surgery. Platforms like Tik-Tok are unhealthy.
A lot of adult women feel comfortable about their looks and like how they look in their late twenties – forties, but anyone experiencing a change whether hatching, growing into adulthood (ie teens), or aging is more likely to feel insecure. Impossible standards and teenhood are not a good mix.

I almost posted some images from the Balenciaga 2019 runway show in my blog. They put prosthetics on their models as satire to comment on unrealistic beauty standards. It's a weird thing for a top fashion house to do. (Bella Hadid doesn't look that different.)

 

[ESC2367]

It could be saying something if a top beauty house would do this.

:O i don't think i could ever afford their clothes. :O

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

There is a big game in womanhood about self-confidence and meeting beauty standards and it can't be won. Now on the other side of this game, at 50, I know it can't be won. Self-confidence has to be about self-acceptance and surrounding yourself with supportive people, whether online or face-to-face. You're allowed to change your mind every single day about whether you want to look natural, polished, in between, edgy, soft... however. The only rule is: Don't let the game win. They just want to sell you low self-esteem so you buy their products or ideals. You're beautiful. You're awesome.

this is pretty much it, yes
Thank you Asa <3

 

[Y1gtfmd74i5u]

Imagine being so insecure that you actually believe it isn't enough to just say you're straight and you have to add "super" to the description?

I’ve been here when it comes to my faith because I understand we’re all in different places in our life, but when it comes down to it, I have to agree on finding the self acceptance past social expectation of flaws and the correction that we make that we expect of ourselves. They seem to be quite different things that are easy to get jumbled up for any person. Especially through the trauma of political abuse/cultural expectation and personal expectation. It seems in general the expectation on gender expression for women seems to be projected onto others who adhere to those very principles, which makes it a far more personal pain than what would be expected change. I feel bad that this exists for everyone, let alone that we subconsciously do it to ourselves. I hope that this community brings you more self acceptance.

 

[mintoots]

Hi everyone, I found a site (here) that took in stories of public sexual harassment everywhere in the world. I thought of dropping it here in case you guys wanted to check. It's interesting because there's a map of where the untoward advances are reported so the reader could possibly triangulate which places to avoid. Anyway, just sharing in case you wanted to check your area.