Gahh

[Faye]

That's a very bold misconception that you came to believe. The reality is the opposite - the less you compromise of what you are, the more attractive you become. The question is - do you really know yourself that good?

Well, nobody can ever really know who they are. Even then, I don't know myself that good as I'm only 19.

Thank you for the book reference. I'll look into it.

It kind of saddens me that you feel this way. I think all men have complex emotions, but aren't encouraged to make them known. And most men don't, out of fear of being ostracized for it. I wouldn't necessarily blame some women, or most women for this. If the majority of men we meet don't show us this side of their personalities, then how are we to know it exists?

And as far as compromising your identity, well, I disagree. And I'm not criticizing you. I was trying to encourage you. I really still think it's better to just be yourself. It makes you special. Don't you want to find someone who thinks you're special for what you really are, instead of what you've forced yourself to be to appease others? I'm not saying not to be constantly trying to find ways to improve yourself, because we all should do that. Just be yourself. Be yourself, be yourself, be yourself. It sucks sometimes, and it gets lonely, but it's so much more fulfilling to have the real you appreciated in the end.

The vast majority of the blame for creating these attitudes goes towards men. Men socialize other men to be this way. I wasn't saying that women cause men to be this way.

I don't even know what to say to the rest of what you said. I don't even know what a self is. What self are you talking about? The self you are given? The self you could be possibly? Or the self that you create?

 

[TinyBubbles]

I can so relate to this! Except in the reverse direction. People tell me I don't care enough, that I should be nicer, less mean, less cold, etc.etc. all the attributes typically applied to women that I seem to lack. It's frustrating to no end, I'm just being myself and yet I have to conform to a majority simply because they are a majority, not because they make any sense.
Gender stereotypes suck.

 

[youhemmein]

Well, nobody can ever really know who they are. Even then, I don't know myself that good as I'm only 19.

Thank you for the book reference. I'll look into it.



The vast majority of the blame for creating these attitudes goes towards men. Men socialize other men to be this way. I wasn't saying that women cause men to be this way.

I don't even know what to say to the rest of what you said. I don't even know what a self is. What self are you talking about? The self you are given? The self you could be possibly? Or the self that you create?

Sorry, it probably sounds like rambling. I just mean don't conform to the stereotypes you hate so much. :/ Nevermind.

 

[daydreamer]

I know how you feel, in 7th and 8th grade some people thought I was a lesbian. And this one guy had a crush on me who turned out to be gay. It was soooo weird

Anyway, just check you're body language. Look to see if you're sending signs accidently that will make some people think you are gay.

 

[Faye]

Sorry, it probably sounds like rambling. I just mean don't conform to the stereotypes you hate so much. :/ Nevermind.

I'm sorry too. I know you meant that, but I'm stressed about all this.

Anyway, just check you're body language. Look to see if you're sending signs accidently that will make some people think you are gay.

I don't think that I'm doing this.

 

[sumone]

I don't think it's about appearing gay or feminine at all. During the teen years a lot of girls are attracted to the bad boys, the tough guys or the ones who exude a strong sex appeal. At this point the smart guys, the nice guys, the soulful guys are largely overlooked mainly because the girls just aren't thinking right.
Wait it out, your turn will come.

 

[Tamagochi]

Anyway, just check you're body language. Look to see if you're sending signs accidently that will make some people think you are gay.

As far as I know gay people get hit by straight ones anyway. So that is just a misconception. A lot of women told me they find gay men attractive and once I even tried to date a lesbian myself

 

[the]

You should change who you are hanging out with or where you live. I have no problems with my femine actions from people even though i am a heterosexual male.

 

[Faye]

I don't think it's about appearing gay or feminine at all. During the teen years a lot of girls are attracted to the bad boys, the tough guys or the ones who exude a strong sex appeal. At this point the smart guys, the nice guys, the soulful guys are largely overlooked mainly because the girls just aren't thinking right.
Wait it out, your turn will come.

I hope that is the case, but what I've learned about waiting is that things don't really change. I was told that I'd make a girl really happy in college, but it looks like that it could and most likely will be years before I even get to go on a date.

 

[jlynnr]

....... the soulful guys ....

I like that kind of guy the best. (Also I just really like the word "soulful"....

The typical male type terrifies me. The jock sports guy who lifts weights and exercises every day, and the overly attractive and socially apt don juan who always has flocks of girls around him - they are both terrifying. Currently my largest qualifications for people I would consider dating are that they're 1. an I type, and 2. an art major (which ensures that not only would he be sensitive but also that I would see him, because I live pretty exclusively in our art building).

There is hope for you yet. Do not despair.

ETA: adding a 3rd qualification - less spacey than me. I do not want to have children with no brains.

 

[Faye]

I like that kind of guy the best. (Also I just really like the word "soulful"....

The typical male type terrifies me. The jock sports guy who lifts weights and exercises every day, and the overly attractive and socially apt don juan who always has flocks of girls around him - they are both terrifying. Currently my largest qualifications for people I would consider dating are that they're 1. an I type, and 2. an art major (which ensures that not only would he be sensitive but also that I would see him, because I live pretty exclusively in our art building).

There is hope for you yet. Do not despair.

ETA: adding a 3rd qualification - less spacey than me. I do not want to have children with no brains.

In other words, you don't want to end up with a total bro?

 

[jlynnr]

In other words, you don't want to end up with a total bro?

dear heavens, no! that would be terrifying.

 

[WellNoWonder]

(Disclaimer: This is a rant, and this is not directed at any person in particular, especially not any person on the forums. I am never this bitter in person either.)

This is really pissing me off. I'm tired of people (particularly women) challenging my masculinity and then freaking out when they find out that I actually AM A HETEROSEXUAL MALE who is interested in a heterosexual relationship.

There is this whole concept of what a man is that is deeply ingrained into our society, and because I don't fit the bill, people treat me poorly. WHAT DO I NEED TO DO? Should I go lift weights every day and demean women after I shotgun a beer and smash the can against my head- because apparently real MEN have neither a full range of emotions nor do they feel as deeply as women do, and I HAVE HAD PEOPLE TELL ME THIS! People have told me that men only experience a limited range of emotions compared to women.

Real men don't think deeply or take time to develop themselves emotionally and intellectually. A real man doesn't think things through- if he is intelligent, he studies a narrow but valuable discipline in order to maximize his marketability and capacity to provide for and to exploit the sexuality of women. BECAUSE SEX IS ALL REAL MEN CARE ABOUT.

In fact, mainstream psychology seems to have endorsed the idea that men are in fact stupid. Men have testosterone, and the more testosterone a man has, the more stupid he is, but simultaneously, he becomes more attractive to women because the stupidity created by the toxicity of testosterone demonstrates to women that the man has good genes. He is saying "look at how good my genes are because they can survive such a high amount of testosterone poisoning", so women are biologically driven and justified in seeking out stupid men. Socio-biologists are moronic.

The stupidest thing about all this, however, is that REAL MEN ARE VIOLENT. Real men need to get out the woods and hunt animals. Real men don't think about emotional conflicts, they punch you in the face! Well if they want violence, I can show them violence. If they want an emotionally retarded jerk, I can be one.

Women will treat me like a friend and then suddenly I wasn't "direct enough in the beginning", so I am "just a friend". I don't "put myself out there". I have yet to meet a woman who will own up to her decisions in relationships. I'm not so stupid that I can be tricked into thinking that it is my fault for their lack of interest. If they are not interested, they should just say so, but they can

 

[Afrelen]

I like that kind of guy the best. (Also I just really like the word "soulful"....

The typical male type terrifies me. The jock sports guy who lifts weights and exercises every day, and the overly attractive and socially apt don juan who always has flocks of girls around him - they are both terrifying. Currently my largest qualifications for people I would consider dating are that they're 1. an I type, and 2. an art major (which ensures that not only would he be sensitive but also that I would see him, because I live pretty exclusively in our art building).

There is hope for you yet. Do not despair.

ETA: adding a 3rd qualification - less spacey than me. I do not want to have children with no brains.

So philosophy majors can't be sensitive. I see how it is...

To the OP: I feel you. I know what it's like, but giving up on it isn't going to solve a thing. Waiting really isn't either. Patience is needed and pays off. It may be out of place for someone who is intentionally single right now to be giving advice on the subject, but I've been in the same position. The difference is, I met the exception to the rule in High School and I would never have done it were it not for good friends with good advice (albeit after the same friends gave bad advice on a couple of other suitors). So I can tell you, with confidence, that there's a girl out there who is going to love you.

However, you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who is simply just going to love you for who you are on day one. (Now this bit is coming from college when I didn't bother to follow this advice). A lot of finding a relationship is actively hunting for it with confidence in who you are and what you want. No one wants to be in a relationship with someone who's just half-heartedly going through it whenever the whim occurs to them. This can be a big problem for IxFx males. We withdraw when we aren't feeling at our best and don't give the 100% that any human being would be looking for in the opposite sex. You have to get the emotional fortitude to overcome that and put your feeling on the line. You're going to get hurt, but you're going to discover so many awesome new things in the process. Really, this turned my life around. The moment it occured to me that my problem wasn't that I was too touchy feely or not physically appealing to seem attractive but instead just wasn't always giving my full effort because I was afraid to get hurt my life changed.

Now, even though I'm trying to avoid a relationship right now, it's not even a small iota of a worry that I'm not the most masculine fellow you'll ever meet will even occur as an obstacle to meeting a nice girl and having a good time.

 

[jlynnr]

So philosophy majors can't be sensitive. I see how it is...

woooooooahhhhhh that's not what I said! I just said that art majors WERE, and that I would SEE an art major man, because I LIVE in that building. I don't live in the philosophy/english/history/education/religion/etc. building. I like philosophy majors just fine!

Also the rest of your words were wise. The part about confidence in who you are is very good.

I also like that you're intentionally single - so'm I, despite the qualifications listed above. It's a good place to be.

 

[Afrelen]

I also like that you're intentionally single - so'm I, despite the qualifications listed above. It's a good place to be.

Don't read too much into it. It's only until I get through all my upcoming military training.

 

[jlynnr]

Don't read too much into it. It's only until I get through all my upcoming military training.

oh, I didn't - mine's just until I stop taking 3 studio classes at the same time.

 

[Faye]

woooooooahhhhhh that's not what I said! I just said that art majors WERE, and that I would SEE an art major man, because I LIVE in that building. I don't live in the philosophy/english/history/education/religion/etc. building. I like philosophy majors just fine!

Also the rest of your words were wise. The part about confidence in who you are is very good.

I also like that you're intentionally single - so'm I, despite the qualifications listed above. It's a good place to be.

I've found that in college it is difficult to find time to meet or see anyone. You're either busy as hell or not there, usually. It makes it very difficult.

The better relationships that I've seen are by individuals who are able to see beyond the scope of college, which doesn't last long to be honest. Freshman have no clue about this, but as you get closer to being a senior and become one, it is much more apparent.