hey look guys, i'm psychic.

I just didn't really want to pick a part that post, but I agreed with your definition of Ne in a sense, but it was a bit too much textbook for me. ;0

And I'm referencing this:

http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/16types.html

I agree with this chart at the bottom, that every type uses every function.

@Last pot shot - thanks. and yeah I was using a brief sentence. Kinda the point, i like things to be concise. Which some people might doubt due to my posts being endless edits, but regardless, we can't really know anything in this world.


Btw ima reiterate people: lets try and keep this remotely on topic. Ni and Ne both make connections, but Ni says "THE END IS NEAR ! HURRAY!" Ne says "THE JOURNEY IS NEVER ENDING! HURRAY!"
also i really dislike ambiguity. though I don't mind philosophy, pro sleep time and easy test time is so pro fo sho like a mo fo yu kno'?

What's wrong with textbook? I was simply explaining what I saw it was. By saying "no", and only no, you are implying that you do not agree with anything that is said, and further it can be seen as a rather rude way to reply to someones interpretation. If the message is put across well, then what does it matter if it is textbook or not.

As far as the 8 function idea, I gotcha. I personally do not buy into that theory, and most others who are into typology and cognitive functions, don't. Largely because it is a very far deviation from Jung's original idea's with type, and it tends to muck up the process of trying to figure out ones type. Also, keep in mind, the latter functions are unconscious. Meaning they are not actively used at all, if you assume this theory is correct. I personally, do not. Also, I do have to say your idea that "we can't know anything in this world" is very very contradictory to what you were saying before about not doing well with ambiguity and disliking it. It's either one or the other.
 
Also, keep in mind, the latter functions are unconscious. Meaning they are not actively used at all, if you assume this theory is correct. I personally, do not.

Isn't it your perceptive functions that are unconsious, and your judging functions that are actively used?
 
Isn't it your perceptive functions that are unconsious, and your judging functions that are actively used?

It's really a matter of semantics... *sigh* I guess I have to explain them somewhat. The term unconscious in regards to the four last function in the 8 function idea, means that they are not used actively in the ways that the other four are. In a sense you could say the are "unused".

In a sense you could say that all of the functions are unsconscious because you can't really "control" how you use them. In particular for something like Ni. You try to tell it to do something actively with intent focus, it doesn't work so well. The functions are actually just thought processes and ways of thinking.
 
Okay...

5 minutes into this topic and I need a lie down. :mpff:
 
Saru, could you please explain to me how you are an INFJ? I mean, even you told me on Tinychat that you were just trolling people on the forum and that you knew your real type.

There are theories of “Shadows” but they don’t work AT ALL like you are discussing it.

They aren’t skill sets. You can’t go practice Te and become “Te Dom” someday. You can’t be Ni > Ne > Fi >Te >etc.

That’s now how the attitudes of perception and judgment work.

I suggest you start at the source and instead of reading “16 Type Patterns”

Start Here:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Analytical-Psychology-C-G-Jung/dp/0691019185"]Amazon.com: Analytical Psychology (9780691019185): C. G. Jung, William McGuire: Books[/ame]
Then Work Up To Lenore’s Book.
Then you can read Bebe’s interpretation of the shadow. Learn about animus/a, learn about suppression of the inferior by the ego, etc.
 
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Okay, a thread started by saru and immediate agreement from Royal.,,,nuff said.
 
Amused.

Developing intuition cognition to the point of synchronicity and precognitive events occurring is explainable.
 
I can't even make sense of this
thread.
 
People think INFJs are psychic because we pick up on cues other people don't necessarily, it's called cold reading. Anyone can learn it but I think INFJs probably have a higher natural acuity to it in the same way that women in general have a higher natural acuity to it.
 
I can see the future, we can breathe in space they just dont want us to escape
 
Saru just started this thread because he wants everyone to know he's psychic.
He reads my mind on a daily basis.
 
ARGH, MORE PROOF YOU PEOPLE ARE ALIENS! :m092:
 
Isn't it your perceptive functions that are unconsious, and your judging functions that are actively used?

This kind of makes sense with Ni because it uses a great deal of the subconscious but not really the other perceiving functions.

Now, infj's have a list of CF's that go along with their particular type, as does everyone else. For the infj, it goes in order as Ni, Fe, Ti and Se. The notion that we use a high amount of Si, Ne or Fi is bull***t. True, everyone makes some use of every CF but on average, our preferences align very much with the CF's that can be derived from Jung's theory. If other functions (mainly tertiary) bubble up or if the infj doesn't have that particular order of functions, it is most likely that they have a weak Fe and/or strong Ti. If anything, the most radical thing that will happen to your CF's will be that they change to Ni, Ti, Fe and Se but that would be a really messed up infj. If you say you're an infj with a really high Si or Ne, then a person who has Fe, Ni, Ti and Se is still an infj. This goes completely against the theory.

Oh, here's a theory, let's throw out the rules and just do what we want without actually proving anything.

We do have shadow functions that are Ne, Fi, Te and Si in respective order but we really only use these when we're really stressed or aroused by an external stimulus (not sexually). These are rarely used, if at all. If you use Si as much as Ni, then you need to think about your type because that is the last function of the inferior functions list.
 
Btw, wassup with all these supposed Ni-doms being able to type people so quickly? Don't sound like no Ni dom I know. we're notoriously bad at stuff like that, though Ni-Te is better than Ni-Fe.

I disagree. Let's compare an Se dominant with an Ni dominant. If you compare Se+Fi with Ni+Te/Fe for reading people, the Se dom will be more aware of micro fluctuations in visual cues to figure out how someone is feeling/reacting to a situation because of how Se is "in the moment" and all senses are picking up details and information in the exact moment- they rarely look for or care about understanding why people are acting a certain way. An INFJ aims to understand and postulate about the motivations in individuals. An ESFP may take delight in thinking they can read people, which they are probably very good at, but an INFJ is more likely to look to understand why a person acts a certain way. Because of this predilection for wanting to understand themselves and others, INFJs are fucking exceptional at reading people. That I can attest to.

I am driving in my car at 35 miles and an hour in a neighborhood, a girl runs out in front of me but somehow doesn't get hit. In a split second my mind works out what would have happened if I had hit her, and for like 2 seconds I'm in another world running out of my car staring a splattered corpse as her redneck dad comes out with a shotgun and shoots at me. Then snap I'm right back into the real world, so grateful I didn't hit the kid. Then I speed up to 55, because due to my shit Si, who says what happened is going to happen again?

That has nothing to do with any cognitive function specifically. Just a weird imagination which any type could possess.

Honestly I think ENFPs are the most approachable types. If I'm ever to approach someone, they're an ENFP. I love enfps, except their horrible Ni makes me want to cry.

If they did have horrible Ni, you wouldn't know about it because you would never experience it. A shadow function is not something you just use when you feel like it. An ENFP may never exhibit any form of Ni that you would be able to detect unless they were extremely stressed or going through a very strange transformation in their personality. That's not how shadow functions work.

Btw people, infjs have ne. VUT. yup.

Everyone does, an INFJ just doesn't use it very often (if at all).

All the functional order means is the way you prefer to use them. Anyone can be skilled in using any type.

Nope, gross simplification.

The reason why a function is called inferior, is because it's quality of use is... inferior. Se to an Ni dominant, is and always will be inferior because to use Se to live their life would require a higher amount of effort but the lack of use and comfortableness with that function for an Ni dominant, makes it an inefficient function. That's why it's our inferior function, get it?

The order of preference should be seen as a gradient of efficiency. The further away from actual use, the less conscious and more alien a function is to an individual. Because Se fundamentally objects to Ni's way of life, it would be impossible to ever use Se as efficiently as Ni. Unless the user, rejects Ni which would, theoretically create a lot of inner psychology tension. Adymus' thread about many faces of INFJ kind of elludes to that in his sub types.

If you spent your whole life living a certain way (basically, having a type preference) using a shadow function is like being a liberal socialist, then suddenly becoming a fascist for a weekend. Those functions are totally opposed to our way of life and attack our sense of mental order, cohesion and sense of self. Shadow functions are rarely used.


In fact, I know for a fact m Ne and Si is more developed than most, but its not preferred. Goddamn household consisting of enfp, entp, istj, isfj, esfj and intj. good lord my intj brother is a breath of fresh air.

No, cognitive functions work together, in pairs, as part of an ongoing information flow. They cannot contradict or oppose each other. Si does not work with Ni because they work in the same way but with different information. They don't swim around in your brain and change when they feel like it. There is a physiological factor to this but I won't go into it.
 
A) I disagree. Let's compare an Se dominant with an Ni dominant. If you compare Se+Fi with Ni+Te/Fe for reading people, the Se dom will be more aware of micro fluctuations in visual cues to figure out how someone is feeling/reacting to a situation because of how Se is "in the moment"

B) No, cognitive functions work together, in pairs, as part of an ongoing information flow. .

A) Yes, but Se cannot put together the information like Ni can in the abstract form that is needed to compute what body language, voice tone and pitch mean on a very small scale. Se can see it but not necessarily connect the dots. Ni doesn't know what it sees but Ni/Fe will get a "feeling" from the person that is usually right.

B) You explained this section very well and the gradient was a good way to put it.
 
I disagree. Let's compare an Se dominant with an Ni dominant. If you compare Se+Fi with Ni+Te/Fe for reading people, the Se dom will be more aware of micro fluctuations in visual cues to figure out how someone is feeling/reacting to a situation because of how Se is "in the moment" and all senses are picking up details and information in the exact moment- they rarely look for or care about understanding why people are acting a certain way. An INFJ aims to understand and postulate about the motivations in individuals. An ESFP may take delight in thinking they can read people, which they are probably very good at, but an INFJ is more likely to look to understand why a person acts a certain way. Because of this predilection for wanting to understand themselves and others, INFJs are fucking exceptional at reading people. That I can attest to.



That has nothing to do with any cognitive function specifically. Just a weird imagination which any type could possess.



If they did have horrible Ni, you wouldn't know about it because you would never experience it. A shadow function is not something you just use when you feel like it. An ENFP may never exhibit any form of Ni that you would be able to detect unless they were extremely stressed or going through a very strange transformation in their personality. That's not how shadow functions work.



Everyone does, an INFJ just doesn't use it very often (if at all).



Nope, gross simplification.

The reason why a function is called inferior, is because it's quality of use is... inferior. Se to an Ni dominant, is and always will be inferior because to use Se to live their life would require a higher amount of effort but the lack of use and comfortableness with that function for an Ni dominant, makes it an inefficient function. That's why it's our inferior function, get it?

The order of preference should be seen as a gradient of efficiency. The further away from actual use, the less conscious and more alien a function is to an individual. Because Se fundamentally objects to Ni's way of life, it would be impossible to ever use Se as efficiently as Ni. Unless the user, rejects Ni which would, theoretically create a lot of inner psychology tension. Adymus' thread about many faces of INFJ kind of elludes to that in his sub types.

If you spent your whole life living a certain way (basically, having a type preference) using a shadow function is like being a liberal socialist, then suddenly becoming a fascist for a weekend. Those functions are totally opposed to our way of life and attack our sense of mental order, cohesion and sense of self. Shadow functions are rarely used.




No, cognitive functions work together, in pairs, as part of an ongoing information flow. They cannot contradict or oppose each other. Si does not work with Ni because they work in the same way but with different information. They don't swim around in your brain and change when they feel like it. There is a physiological factor to this but I won't go into it.


whatever you say.... Not that I'm discounting you, I just think you most likely misunderstood it. like, all of it.

[MENTION=3538]Arsal[/MENTION]; no comment.


however, and i say this with all honesty: quit being so serious people. i made this thread with humor because we are going to use humor to figure out why everyone thinks they're f'ing psychic.
 
Okay! Once more time from the top people.
A post created by Saru and immediately supported by Royal!!! NUFF SAID!!!!!
 
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A) Yes, but Se cannot put together the information like Ni can in the abstract form that is needed to compute what body language, voice tone and pitch mean on a very small scale. Se can see it but not necessarily connect the dots. Ni doesn't know what it sees but Ni/Fe will get a "feeling" from the person that is usually right.

I live with an ESFP (phone salesmen lol!) and have had my preconceptions about how good types are at reading people- smashed.

They can put things together and connect the dots. Maybe not in a long term, conceptual kind of way but they can take isolated experiences and put them together and work things out and they are extremely good at it, especially if they are bullies or manipulative, they can use such information for their own gains.
 
I live with an ESFP (phone salesmen lol!) and have had my preconceptions about how good types are at reading people- smashed.

They can put things together and connect the dots. Maybe not in a long term, conceptual kind of way but they can take isolated experiences and put them together and work things out and they are extremely good at it, especially if they are bullies or manipulative, they can use such information for their own gains.

Well, obviously S types can connect the dots but Se takes a lot longer than Ni.
 
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