How acutely aware are you of your Ni?

[Reverist]

Every time I post a comment, it's like leaving one of my sons at school on his very first day, wondering if he will be OK, and if everyone will be OK with them, and have they upset anyone and will the teacher like him and it's all going to be a disaster and .......

That's Fe alright! ....and that's how I feel too :happynod:

 

[mintoots]

I'm glad you brought us back to this question. I've never had instant infatuations at all, despite the usual physical attraction that pulls us all in - quite the opposite. As I got to know my girlfriend (as she was then) I saw beyond the surface to places she didn't even see herself, and that was a very important part of falling in love for me. It wasn't instant, it took as long as any of the other Ni examples in this thread where you "know" something in a lump pretty quickly but it needs feeding over time and even then I have to process it into something conscious. I'm analysing this in cold logic for the thread with a lot of hindsight, but of course it just happened naturally as part of our unfolding relationship over several months. For some reason, I've never jumped in to a relationship just on an Ni/Se impulse - cowardice and instinctive wisdom in an unholy alliance perhaps? We've been married for 45 years so it worked for us! My wife is probable INTJ, so we have a glorious time when both our Se's get overloaded simultaneously. She's much more hard minded than I am so keeps a clear view when I get all conflicted with other people's feelings, bears grudges fairly but without mercy where they are deserved and can do a "doorslam" louder than any INFJ I suspect. Her Fi is pretty impressive - she is a 125% absolute, loyal supporter and champion of Richard III and has been since she was a child. What she doesn't know or feel about about him isn't worth knowing or feeling.

Woah. You guys have been married for a long time. I'm in my 30s and the curiosity got me. I don't exactly mean first impressions, though. It's more of a third or fourth or even fifth. There are people who when we get a pretty good inkling of become so transparently clear to us despite not having known them too long. I'm not sure how to explain it but for example in my case, I was talking with a new acquaintance then about something relatively soul deep and when I listened to her, I was certain of her sincerity and her peraonality and there and then I knew that this woman is going to be my best friend. And she did. She still is my best friend now. This happened to me several times in my life now when a person's being just opens up before me and then I rest him/her against the backdrop of my life --past, present, and (intended)--future and I'm just certain they'll be there for the long haul. Surely the relationship that came after the epiphany has its ups and downs but the certainty (or is it a decision? A moment of truth?) of this person being important is unwavering. I wonder if other INFJs experience this too or if it's just me?

INFJs don't really plan things since Te is a shadow function, yet since they are a J, they like to have a plan and they need to know what is coming next, so since they aren't typically good at planning - they get others to do it for them

Woah that's surprising. I almost always do the planning myself. I think I use Ni in the classical cause and probable effects fashion and I think I always do it in the context of time. Time is absolute and all concepts if it is somewhat relative in the real world should be somewhat applicable in a context that is bounded by time. I'm an architect so maybe it's the training to always find a way to concretize concepts and find all means to make it applicable in the real world scenario. In any case, this process always ignites an urge within me to plan and I almost always have to produce charts, frameworks, and matrices to concretize the plan on paper. I also get obsessive about it so there's almost no way I'd delegate the planning process to others. I often find that others can be pretty slow at perceiving where things will lead to so I often take the action in my own hands. It has taken a loooooot of practice and patience and respect for training juniors that has covinced me to let off the stirring wheel for a bit to give others a chance to grow.

The funny thing though is that my matrices and visualizations are always far more complex than necessary. It's like my thought process on paper. Recently, Ive been acquiring the discipline to simplify. I identify the things that are more of my thought processes only, determine their necessity and then omit them from the charts produced on paper though mentally they're there. It has helped me focus on the necessities though. I think it's healthy such that it encourages me to minimalize a lot of things so i get to destress.

The odd part is that because these activities seem so overwhelmingly Ti, I often get very stressed or burnt out after a project is done. In this case I hibernate and submit myself to periods of free Fe flow and I shift to a mode of art so far off logic, like abstract painting. Not even poetry because poetry requires structure and that stresses me out during hibernation stage. However, im not so sure it's healthy. I remember testing vulnerable to manic depressive disorders. I've been trying to take care of myself better and I try my best to use thinking functions at a much slower pace. I use my Fe to discipline myself against overusing my thinking function by making sure I do activities that actively shut off my thinking side on a regular basis. I think it's working so far though I terribly miss the euphoria of concrete productivity sometimes.

It makes me question my MBTI type though but I think I've absorbed too much of the INTJ ways of life. Maybe it's not surprising but there are a lot of them in my field of work, plus some family members are also INTJ. But I know that I'm not INTJ because I feel too much (and I secretly like it) and I'm not INTP because even though the level of obsession is similar, I often use my feeling function and my intuition far too much. I sometimes wonder if maybe I'm INFP but became INFJ because of too much exposure to INTJs...

 

[Fidicen]

It makes me question my MBTI type though but I think I've absorbed too much of the INTJ ways of life. Maybe it's not surprising but there are a lot of them in my field of work, plus some family members are also INTJ. But I know that I'm not INTJ because I feel too much (and I secretly like it) and I'm not INTP because even though the level of obsession is similar, I often use my feeling function and my intuition far too much. I sometimes wonder if maybe I'm INFP but became INFJ because of too much exposure to INTJs...

INTJs are not cold, they have just as much feelings as the rest of us, but they're perhaps inclined to analyze the world in a more scientific way than INFJs, which can make them appear somewhat aloof in comparison. In the function theory it's not really possible to change your type like that, and INFPs are very different from INFJs anyway since all the functions are mirrored, not the same. Just because you have a lot of feelings doesn't mean that Fe is one of your functions, could very well be introverted feeling.

 

[Ginny]

It makes me question my MBTI type though but I think I've absorbed too much of the INTJ ways of life. Maybe it's not surprising but there are a lot of them in my field of work, plus some family members are also INTJ. But I know that I'm not INTJ because I feel too much (and I secretly like it) and I'm not INTP because even though the level of obsession is similar, I often use my feeling function and my intuition far too much. I sometimes wonder if maybe I'm INFP but became INFJ because of too much exposure to INTJs...

Try to discern properly which feeling function you use. Fe takes emotion in, while Fi produces it by itself. INFJs are good at both, but do the former (intuitively and) with more control than they have over Fi (that's why we can have uncontrolable emotional outbursts when we fall into the shadow).
By your last sentence I assume you believe you use Ni more/most because of the INTJ family members? There is a theory among some of us that function stack may be partially heredetary skill and partially an acquired skill, but it's hard to prove. However, it is not far off to hypothesise that some shadow function use may be more developed due to skill acquisition during childhood. My question would be: do you think it's possible that you are by personality a specific type while having been (self-)taught to use a specific function "unnatrually" more than you would have if you were left to develop your own personality?

 

[mintoots]

do you think it's possible that you are by personality a specific type while having been (self-)taught to use a specific function "unnatrually" more than you would have if you were left to develop your own personality?

Hmm... In hindsight, probably not. Although I think that the opinion of INTJs important to me really mattered to me but in essence it was my drive to do something that always propelled me to do things in a certain way. I wasn't exactly "taught"; it was more like I felt competitive and I could see the INTJ point of view as correct and rightful so I strived really hard for it. Is it possible that I'm just an imbalanced INFJ?

I'm sorry these functions really do get confusing for me at times. Will keep reading up on it. I didn't realize that it wasn't possible to shift personalities out of nurture. I just observed though that people (at least those around me) seem to test differently depending on particular moments in their life so I imagined it must be something flexible that adjusts from time to time depending on both internal and external factors. This way I could reconcile the credibility of willpower over personality... although now that I think about it, willpower is probably going to create imbalance if the decision doesn't fit. But this is definitely just me. The bounds of the theory are definitely more interesting now...

INTJs are not cold, they have just as much feelings as the rest of us, but they're perhaps inclined to analyze the world in a more scientific way than INFJs, which can make them appear somewhat aloof in comparison. In the function theory it's not really possible to change your type like that, and INFPs are very different from INFJs anyway since all the functions are mirrored, not the same. Just because you have a lot of feelings doesn't mean that Fe is one of your functions, could very well be introverted feeling.

Agreed. Beyond agreed. Comparatively, the discipline in the INTJ, although very appealing to me, is also what makes me interpret or see them as "cooler" than I'll ever be, but they are definitely not un-feeling. Definitely.

I didn't realize that about function theory. I need to read up more. I've mostly been just winging it because several tests typed me as INFJ so I wanted to know more about it. The more I'm going into it though, I'm surprised by the depths and layers of each personality so I imagine it must have something to do with the percentile...

To be honest I was so sure that I am INFJ until I started reading about the way Ni functions in this thread. I don't exactly think that abstractly--- am I really INFJ? I can sustain my extroversion longer too. But as I read through comparisons of the types, I realize that I can identify with some INFP behavior but not with most. It's the same thing with INFJ too, although I can identify with more INFJ behavior rather than INFP.

Hmmm... Is the function theory more focused on the way we truly think and feel rather than behave? What of "behavior masks" that INFJs seem to be noted to put on? I guess the answer to that first question should be a yes... i guess i'm "journaling" via this thread. Sorry.

 

[Reverist]

INFJ and INFP are two of the types most commonly mistyped for each other. The cognitive function styles differ greatly though. Defintely look more into each cognitive function and see what hits home for you. There are quizzes out there to specifically see if you use Ti/Te more and quizzes for Fi/Fe that could help.

I do believe someone can have skill developed around a function that is not in their stack. Particularly if everyone in their family uses that different skill and they had to learn it well enough to communicate effectively, or even maybe possibly even for work.

 

[noisebloom]

Hi @noisebloom, Just wondering if the comments in this thread are the sort of thing you expected? I'd love to have similar comments from you, or any other INxPs around, on how your Ne works - it would be fascinating to compare notes.

It's exactly what I expected, but a lot to digest, especially as I'm trying not to overexert my Ti at the moment (I'm essentially being a lazy fuck when I'm not at work).

I will probably come back to this thread in a few days, re-read all of it, and respond.

 

[John K]

That's Fe alright! ....and that's how I feel too :happynod:

Glad it's not just me

 

[John K]

I've just been going back over this thread and I'm still a bit confused about how mutually exclusive the MBTI functions are in each of us.

I thought I'd move the focus, to look at my primary function territory which may help with a fresh perspective. Now, though I'm dominant Ni, I still seem to use Si consciously and extensively ? How else would I be able to use the keyboard I'm typing on, and work out how to navigate the Windows environment, all the apps on my desktop, and the structure of this Forum? I often spend a lot of time learning to use computer facilities and much of it goes nowhere near Ni/Fe, at least until I'm fluent with them. On a grander scale, I have places that I've been to where I've left a bit of myself behind, sort of, they mean so much to me. I can go back to them in my mind almost as clearly as if I were still there - the place itself, the smell of the air, the atmosphere, the thoughts and emotions I had at the time. It was intense Ni/Fe that drove the taking of these memories at the time I was in these places, but isn't it Si that helps me go back there again in my mind and re-experience them.

It's the same on the Ni/Se axis - when I get up in the morning, I don't fall down the stairs and end up in the local casualty ward because I can't work out where things are. I can also do Se well enough to drive without being shopped to the UK driving license people. I seem to be able to do Te as well if I need to - how else could I work out my annual tax return. Yes, there's feeling judgement as well but of both kinds - a sense of duty (Fi), the realisation that it's not a good idea to piss off tax officers (Fe), etc, but these don't get the data together, fill in the form and post it.

Surely we all use all of the functions - most of them not with the same level of facility as our preferred ones, but enough to engage with the world every day.

Or am I completely misunderstanding how the functions work?

 

[Ginny]

I've just been going back over this thread and I'm still a bit confused about how mutually exclusive the MBTI functions are in each of us.

I thought I'd move the focus, to look at my primary function territory which may help with a fresh perspective. Now, though I'm dominant Ni, I still seem to use Si consciously and extensively ? How else would I be able to use the keyboard I'm typing on, and work out how to navigate the Windows environment, all the apps on my desktop, and the structure of this Forum? I often spend a lot of time learning to use computer facilities and much of it goes nowhere near Ni/Fe, at least until I'm fluent with them. On a grander scale, I have places that I've been to where I've left a bit of myself behind, sort of, they mean so much to me. I can go back to them in my mind almost as clearly as if I were still there - the place itself, the smell of the air, the atmosphere, the thoughts and emotions I had at the time. It was intense Ni/Fe that drove the taking of these memories at the time I was in these places, but isn't it Si that helps me go back there again in my mind and re-experience them.

It's the same on the Ni/Se axis - when I get up in the morning, I don't fall down the stairs and end up in the local casualty ward because I can't work out where things are. I can also do Se well enough to drive without being shopped to the UK driving license people. I seem to be able to do Te as well if I need to - how else could I work out my annual tax return. Yes, there's feeling judgement as well but of both kinds - a sense of duty (Fi), the realisation that it's not a good idea to piss off tax officers (Fe), etc, but these don't get the data together, fill in the form and post it.

Surely we all use all of the functions - most of them not with the same level of facility as our preferred ones, but enough to engage with the world every day.

Or am I completely misunderstanding how the functions work?

First about the last bit: not completely

Sometimes I think we give the functions too much credit: there is such a thing as muscle memory, and reflexes that are wired into your brain, but Si doesn't have anything to do with memory, but about bodily sensation. Ni is a way of processing things: you may remember the way you navigate the operating system on a computer because you have internalised the way the system is organised.

The functions don't govern over what we do, just how it is processed.

 

[John K]

First about the last bit: not completely

Sometimes I think we give the functions too much credit: there is such a thing as muscle memory, and reflexes that are wired into your brain, but Si doesn't have anything to do with memory, but about bodily sensation. Ni is a way of processing things: you may remember the way you navigate the operating system on a computer because you have internalised the way the system is organised.

The functions don't govern over what we do, just how it is processed.

Oh! I do sound a bit dogmatic don't I ? :sad: Sorry - Just meant to sound a bit confused :unsure:

What you say makes a lot of sense to me - perhaps confusing memory with Si perception is a little bit like confusing emotion with Fe judgement?

 

[Reverist]

Surely we all use all of the functions - most of them not with the same level of facility as our preferred ones, but enough to engage with the world every day.

I think we all experience using each of the 8 cognitive functions regularly. But, I see a difference between just being able to do something, and truly excelling at it with ease, or feeling inexplicably drawn to it and comfortable with it. I can also see how overlapping functions can cause confusion.

Now, though I'm dominant Ni, I still seem to use Si consciously and extensively ? How else would I be able to use the keyboard I'm typing on, and work out how to navigate the Windows environment, all the apps on my desktop, and the structure of this Forum?

The actual act of typing on the keyboard (even the act of learning to type), visually navigating Windows, and clicking to open apps on your desktop all seem like Se to me. I see Si as more about understanding and desiring to have a routine around something. So creating a file structure to store the apps on your desktop would be Si, or at least the thought or desire to organize those items based on how you experience them so that you can call upon them again when needed, would be Si. But since it is introverted, you would be using Se to actually interact with the external world.

It was intense Ni/Fe that drove the taking of these memories at the time I was in these places, but isn't it Si that helps me go back there again in my mind and re-experience them.

It could also be Fi that allows you go back and re-experience memories to which you have a certain emotional attachment. I think it depends on what you are re-experiencing though. If you are re-living the emotion of the moment, then it's possible you are using Fi and not Si.

I seem to be able to do Te as well if I need to - how else could I work out my annual tax return.

Yes, but do you look forward to doing your taxes? Do you like to get it done early? Is it something you enjoy doing enough to help others? Not just because you can or they ask you to, but would you seek it out?

Yes, there's feeling judgement as well but of both kinds - a sense of duty (Fi),

A "sense of duty" seems more associated with Si than Fi. Something like, I do this because it needs to be done and it's the way we've always done it, rather than I am doing this thing because it feels right, or it means something to me personally.

he realisation that it's not a good idea to piss off tax officers (Fe)

Well, now that's just good common sense.....

It's all good, the cognitive functions tell you how your brain is wired, but not who you are as a person. Everyone has different skills and life experiences. For me, it helps me to understand why I perceive things the way I do and approach the world the way I do, and it gives me a framework for growth in understanding myself. As soon as it's not useful, I stop using it.

 

[heartcore]

You should better ask an ENxJ or ISxP, I think. From what I know, the dominant function is pretty much unconsciously used and somewhat works similarly as a 'flow' state and therefore is difficult to explain by the user.

 

[noisebloom]

I'm pretty well recovered from my grip so I'm going to dish out my two cents (in response to a query earlier, and just to get it off my chest):

Having read some of what you guys have said confirms a suspicion I've had lately: when I'm in a "creative zone", I am able to harness the power of Ni.

A lot of you have discussed your issues with the order and weight of a type's four main cognitive functions. The reason I'm so attracted to Jungian typology (and really, the reason I'm here) is because it's been spot-on for me. Is that to say that I've never used my shadow functions? No, but they don't come naturally to me, and I really suspect my impetus to utilize them is largely subconscious.

Anyway, I get into these "creative zones", in which I basically become hypomanic and have this continuous flow of creative activity. I'm in one now. They aren't super frequent, but I have at least two a year. I've noticed that when this happen I tend to have "visions". I know exactly what I need to do creatively, and it comes to me out of nowhere. It feels like how you guys describe Ni. One person mentioned "clarity". It definitely feels like clarity. It really only happens with creative endeavors.

A few years ago, I was diagnosed with Adult ADHD. My mind has always been like a TV that is constantly changing channels. My brain is always tangentially connecting things, but there is no end goal. There is no clarity. All I can do is heap these ideas on top of one another and see if there's something fruitful in the pile. I don't think this is ADHD (but then again, psychological disorders are mostly diagnosed because someone's brain chemistry severely inhibits their ability to function "normally" in society, so maybe) as much as Ne. I have always been an idea person. I am a better brainstormer than a solver.

I went on Ritalin at one point, and I did gain clarity. I was able to slow down and actually focus more, but my ability to brainstorm was gone, and all the excitement of learning and taking in new ideas was gone. After a couple weeks, I had to get off the meds, because I couldn't stand how fucking boring life had become.

So I think Ne is the part of my brain that is constantly thinking "what if", and then building ideas upon ideas. I have two close INTP friends that I get shitty with every week. We come up with the most insane ideas for inventions, societal structures/economies, etc., and I don't think we resolve much of anything before we move on... but these ideas are still with us, and somewhere within that mental scrap heap is a basis for knowledge.

 

[John K]

I think we all experience using each of the 8 cognitive functions regularly. But, I see a difference between just being able to do something, and truly excelling at it with ease, or feeling inexplicably drawn to it and comfortable with it. I can also see how overlapping functions can cause confusion.



The actual act of typing on the keyboard (even the act of learning to type), visually navigating Windows, and clicking to open apps on your desktop all seem like Se to me. I see Si as more about understanding and desiring to have a routine around something. So creating a file structure to store the apps on your desktop would be Si, or at least the thought or desire to organize those items based on how you experience them so that you can call upon them again when needed, would be Si. But since it is introverted, you would be using Se to actually interact with the external world.



It could also be Fi that allows you go back and re-experience memories to which you have a certain emotional attachment. I think it depends on what you are re-experiencing though. If you are re-living the emotion of the moment, then it's possible you are using Fi and not Si.



Yes, but do you look forward to doing your taxes? Do you like to get it done early? Is it something you enjoy doing enough to help others? Not just because you can or they ask you to, but would you seek it out?



A "sense of duty" seems more associated with Si than Fi. Something like, I do this because it needs to be done and it's the way we've always done it, rather than I am doing this thing because it feels right, or it means something to me personally.



Well, now that's just good common sense.....

It's all good, the cognitive functions tell you how your brain is wired, but not who you are as a person. Everyone has different skills and life experiences. For me, it helps me to understand why I perceive things the way I do and approach the world the way I do, and it gives me a framework for growth in understanding myself. As soon as it's not useful, I stop using it.

Hi @Reverist ,

Very many thanks for your comments. I'm really sorry that I haven't picked up on them a lot sooner - got carried away in other threads and haven't looked in this one until recently. Over the last 2 weeks I have definitely accepted INFJ as my best fit type – one of my objectives in joining the forum was to resolve this through meeting and talking to people with that preference. Big tick for the Forum !!

I agree with you that MBTI does not define us; but a feeling that something unresolved is resolvable does frustrate me, and as @Ginny implied, it can be easy to confuse the process of using one of your less preferred functions with the way you form and access content (such as memory). In addition, I’m intensely curious about psychology, and a lot of my force of interest in it is purely intellectual – a desire to understand. It’s easier to toss half understood ideas about in a face to face conversation of course, but I don’t have friends who have this kind of interest, so the Forum is a godsend.

It’s very interesting, your suggestion that there may be considerable Feeling going on in my recall of situations from the past. Let me give you an example from over 45 years ago:

...... if I shut my eyes, I'm actually still there, on the hillside, overlooking a bay several miles across. It's night in mid-winter and I'm surrounded by mountains - everywhere is deep in snow and there are steep glaciers tumbling down the mountain valleys. It's very cold, well below freezing, very still, very clear and the sea is dead flat calm - it's covered with growlers and bergy bits. The snow under my feet is crisp with frost. The stars are brilliant and the Milky Way is bright across the sky. A full moon is just rising over a valley 8 miles away across the bay – it's clear of the horizon and shines straight down the valley; there is the most incredible moon river running for miles across the sea straight towards me. The air is like a chilled German white wine. A cloud cascade is pouring over the highest mountain ridge, 10,000 feet up, some miles away to the west, and it scintillates in the moonlight. I have a bottle of Grand Marnier with me, and I get slightly tipsy on it while watching. Everything is lit up by the moon, and it's completely magical, sacred: I am enchanted. After half an hour I am cold and go in, and I can’t remember any more.​

I think I left a bit of me behind and it’s still there.​

Remembering this now with an MBTI hat on, the primary experience was a blend of Ni and Se harmony that I usually only get at will momentarily when I’m composing a photograph – but this was extended over a half hour at least because of the mystical web that Inferior Se sprays all over reality, turning it into Magic when I’m very lucky. I don’t have this level of recall for many place memories, and it needs a highly charged atmosphere for it to happen for me.

As far as thinking functions are concerned ….

I took mathematics at university and very much enjoyed it. I still occasionally pull out one of my old text books and read through it, a bit like re-reading a novel that you liked as a teenager and go back to every few years. Of course, I knew nothing about MBTI in those days, so I had no sense of a possible conflict with my preferred functions. Intuition is very valuable for maths, but you also need to be very good with Thinking skills. I got a good degree, mid-range 2.1, so was certainly proficient, but nowhere near the best in our year: there was probably a greater distance between the top 2.1 and the top 1st than there was between the bare passes and the top 2.1. Of course, I can see with hindsight that the Intuition and Feeling functions are primary drivers for me with these very cerebral type of activities. I need to be a bit in love with a subject to give it my sustained attention: it needs to speak to my inner core in some way and, ideally, I also need affirmation - then I can excel. I fell a bit out of love with maths towards the end of my time at university when I saw that, in its essence, it only really hit my “life-drama” goals tangentially!

 

[John K]

I'm pretty well recovered from my grip so I'm going to dish out my two cents (in response to a query earlier, and just to get it off my chest):

Having read some of what you guys have said confirms a suspicion I've had lately: when I'm in a "creative zone", I am able to harness the power of Ni.

A lot of you have discussed your issues with the order and weight of a type's four main cognitive functions. The reason I'm so attracted to Jungian typology (and really, the reason I'm here) is because it's been spot-on for me. Is that to say that I've never used my shadow functions? No, but they don't come naturally to me, and I really suspect my impetus to utilize them is largely subconscious.

Anyway, I get into these "creative zones", in which I basically become hypomanic and have this continuous flow of creative activity. I'm in one now. They aren't super frequent, but I have at least two a year. I've noticed that when this happen I tend to have "visions". I know exactly what I need to do creatively, and it comes to me out of nowhere. It feels like how you guys describe Ni. One person mentioned "clarity". It definitely feels like clarity. It really only happens with creative endeavors.

A few years ago, I was diagnosed with Adult ADHD. My mind has always been like a TV that is constantly changing channels. My brain is always tangentially connecting things, but there is no end goal. There is no clarity. All I can do is heap these ideas on top of one another and see if there's something fruitful in the pile. I don't think this is ADHD (but then again, psychological disorders are mostly diagnosed because someone's brain chemistry severely inhibits their ability to function "normally" in society, so maybe) as much as Ne. I have always been an idea person. I am a better brainstormer than a solver.

I went on Ritalin at one point, and I did gain clarity. I was able to slow down and actually focus more, but my ability to brainstorm was gone, and all the excitement of learning and taking in new ideas was gone. After a couple weeks, I had to get off the meds, because I couldn't stand how fucking boring life had become.

So I think Ne is the part of my brain that is constantly thinking "what if", and then building ideas upon ideas. I have two close INTP friends that I get shitty with every week. We come up with the most insane ideas for inventions, societal structures/economies, etc., and I don't think we resolve much of anything before we move on... but these ideas are still with us, and somewhere within that mental scrap heap is a basis for knowledge.

Hi @noisebloom, great to see you back again. I really admire the way you took time out - it's so easy to get caught up in the flow until you are over an edge you didn't realise was there. I'm always doing it ..... but I'm a lot less bothered about pulling out into "me-only-time" than I used to be.

 

[Reverist]

Hi @Reverist ,

Very many thanks for your comments. I'm really sorry that I haven't picked up on them a lot sooner - got carried away in other threads and haven't looked in this one until recently. Over the last 2 weeks I have definitely accepted INFJ as my best fit type – one of my objectives in joining the forum was to resolve this through meeting and talking to people with that preference. Big tick for the Forum !!

I agree with you that MBTI does not define us; but a feeling that something unresolved is resolvable does frustrate me, and as @Ginny implied, it can be easy to confuse the process of using one of your less preferred functions with the way you form and access content (such as memory). In addition, I’m intensely curious about psychology, and a lot of my force of interest in it is purely intellectual – a desire to understand. It’s easier to toss half understood ideas about in a face to face conversation of course, but I don’t have friends who have this kind of interest, so the Forum is a godsend.

It’s very interesting, your suggestion that there may be considerable Feeling going on in my recall of situations from the past. Let me give you an example from over 45 years ago:

...... if I shut my eyes, I'm actually still there, on the hillside, overlooking a bay several miles across. It's night in mid-winter and I'm surrounded by mountains - everywhere is deep in snow and there are steep glaciers tumbling down the mountain valleys. It's very cold, well below freezing, very still, very clear and the sea is dead flat calm - it's covered with growlers and bergy bits. The snow under my feet is crisp with frost. The stars are brilliant and the Milky Way is bright across the sky. A full moon is just rising over a valley 8 miles away across the bay – it's clear of the horizon and shines straight down the valley; there is the most incredible moon river running for miles across the sea straight towards me. The air is like a chilled German white wine. A cloud cascade is pouring over the highest mountain ridge, 10,000 feet up, some miles away to the west, and it scintillates in the moonlight. I have a bottle of Grand Marnier with me, and I get slightly tipsy on it while watching. Everything is lit up by the moon, and it's completely magical, sacred: I am enchanted. After half an hour I am cold and go in, and I can’t remember any more.​

I think I left a bit of me behind and it’s still there.​

Remembering this now with an MBTI hat on, the primary experience was a blend of Ni and Se harmony that I usually only get at will momentarily when I’m composing a photograph – but this was extended over a half hour at least because of the mystical web that Inferior Se sprays all over reality, turning it into Magic when I’m very lucky. I don’t have this level of recall for many place memories, and it needs a highly charged atmosphere for it to happen for me.

As far as thinking functions are concerned ….

I took mathematics at university and very much enjoyed it. I still occasionally pull out one of my old text books and read through it, a bit like re-reading a novel that you liked as a teenager and go back to every few years. Of course, I knew nothing about MBTI in those days, so I had no sense of a possible conflict with my preferred functions. Intuition is very valuable for maths, but you also need to be very good with Thinking skills. I got a good degree, mid-range 2.1, so was certainly proficient, but nowhere near the best in our year: there was probably a greater distance between the top 2.1 and the top 1st than there was between the bare passes and the top 2.1. Of course, I can see with hindsight that the Intuition and Feeling functions are primary drivers for me with these very cerebral type of activities. I need to be a bit in love with a subject to give it my sustained attention: it needs to speak to my inner core in some way and, ideally, I also need affirmation - then I can excel. I fell a bit out of love with maths towards the end of my time at university when I saw that, in its essence, it only really hit my “life-drama” goals tangentially!

This is so beautiful and deep. Thank you for sharing, and I am happy that you found your best fit type. It does seem like INFJ suits you. The description of your memory is so real, and yet magical at the same time, what an awesome experience.

I agree, the forum is wonderful and I'm glad to have found my way here as well. I enjoy the kind of discussions I find here; I don't really have friends who are either interested or willing to talk in depth about this stuff.

The intelligence or intellectual side of type is quite interesting. I love to understand things, researching, learning, expanding my knowledge of the world and people is truly satisfying. I might even say I love the process most. My job is very technical and I have enjoyed and excelled at it, but I don't find it rewarding anymore, and at the end of the day I find that I want to see results that help people make decisions, not just develop something that works. I think I've relied so heavily on my thinking function that over time I've been neglecting Fe.

It is something I've only recently realized, and I've started making changes so I can explore this function more, like joining this forum to connect with like-minds, and reaching out to make new friends or even deepen existing connections. I also decided not to re-bid on the contract I'm working, and instead want to focus on raising my kids while they are still young (I have 2 boys under 5). Not just to grow my Fe, but because it is something I always wanted to do since they were born, but for whatever reason I talked myself out of it, until I just couldn't ignore it anymore, and the timing feels right now.

I'm probably hijacking the conversation or thread or something, but just want to say I'm glad to have met you, and am glad to be here, I truly enjoy the time I spend on this site, it's a nice community.

 

[Miswired7]

Yes, something like this. Because the third function is relatively weak, a young person perhaps doesn't notice where this process can go wrong. For example, an INTJ might have a strong value system influenced by gut emotional reactions, and yet insist that the arguments are simply logical and not influenced by subjective views. This happens if the INTJ is very confident in the use of the first two functions (Ni and Te). But just because the other two functions are ignored doesn't mean that they're not present. Similarly, an INFJ might look at someone's problems and explore different perspectives, but fail to use Ti to make the arguments consistent. In both cases the Ni users will appear arrogant and stubborn, the INTJ denying subjectiveness and the INFJ insisting the argument is coherent when it's not, and both claiming that they're only being logical. Because they both use Ni to approach the problem, they probably can agree on the topic easily, and for that very reason see through each other's failures: the Te user will notice the wishy-washy nature of the weak Ti argument, and Fe can notice the hidden Fi agenda behind the rationalization.

Very true. INFJs have Fi that is strong but devalued. They excel at recognizing hidden Fi agendas in Fi tertiary and Fi inferior types.

 

[Ginny]

Very true. INFJs have Fi that is strong but devalued. They excel at recognizing hidden Fi agendas in Fi tertiary and Fi inferior types.

Interesting point. I was just thinking about whether we can attribute that to Fi at all, or whether the functions of the conscious stack would be able to do the same, only that due to the strong Fi there would be an intrinsic understanding of it.

What do you think? And could you include why you think so?

 

[Miswired7]

Interesting point. I was just thinking about whether we can attribute that to Fi at all, or whether the functions of the conscious stack would be able to do the same, only that due to the strong Fi there would be an intrinsic understanding of it.

What do you think? And could you include why you think so?

I think that you have to become part of something in order to fully understand it in a meaningful way. Perhaps this can be attributed to Fe empathy and Ni realization. Perhaps it is devalued Fi giving the intrinsic understanding. I think that a convincing argument could be made for either point of view. It is like looking at the same thing from a slightly different angle, which is also how I view MBTI vs. Socionics.
I have seen many people with unhealthy Fi who use their concept of morality to justify their own agenda and even their own bad behavior. I find it abhorrent and selfish, even when I am totally "getting" where they are coming from. I have often thought that I must have that capacity within me, even before I knew anything about socionics.
You make an interesting point. I will ponder it further