How can I gain an INFJ's forgiveness after fucking up in a major way?

Er... Actually, I'm not sure contacting her is a good idea, period. I assume that this restraining order/ no-contact rule is still in effect if you're going through the lengths of finding a loophole; if you contact her despite this (and with a twenty-five page letter explaining yourself and having her vividly re-visit that horrifying night, no less) I'm not sure her benevolent INFJness is going to be able to over-rule the creep factor. You screwed up big time, buddy. If I were in your shoes, I'd either leave it well alone.

Still, it's obvious this is important to you, otherwise you wouldn't be coming onto an INFJ forum asking for help from INFJ's. If anything, just write a short note that indicates your desire to speak to her, but let her take the full initiative. If you don't hear back from her, leave the ball in her court. Don't send her any more messages or try to justify yourself in contacting her in any other way. She'll either come around or she won't.

Good luck.
 
Well, I really don't know what to suggest here. I'm the sort of person that has too much pride to ever contact a person if I even suspect that they don't like me anymore, so I have no experience here. And very few friends... maybe less than 3. I generally assume that if someone doesn't respond to my contact attempts within 2-3 months, or initiate one to me within that time... that they don't like me anymore. After that time frame, I can feel weird about reconnecting even with people who haven't done anything at all to me. My view is very much that I'm naturally disconnected from people, and that work is required to create and maintain a connection. Without that work, we revert to disconnection. Extraverts seem to think differently.

She might (I emphasize might) welcome you back, but only if she knows she has nothing to fear. So the best thing to do, most likely, is instead of sending that letter... just say, "I just wanted to say thank you for being my friend as long as you did, and giving the strength to move on with my life. I'm sorry, and I'll miss you."

Remember, you can't expect to reconnect, especially given the severity of what you've done. I've heard of people (not just INFJs) slamming the door on people, even getting divorces for far less. But with that, she'll likely forgive you, and perhaps consider it at some point. She'll be more likely to consider it if she's somewhat lonely, I imagine, just as anyone would.

Just one thing I wanted to add... I sort of relate to your side of the story as well as hers. Something very similar happened to me when I got a little emotionally dependent on a friend who I spoke to often on AIM (who had depended on me for FAR longer than I had to lean on them, but didn't seem to appreciate that fact). On the other hand, I've also had to put up with people who just drain my resources and aren't good friends.
 
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By the way, just because I haven't said this, thank you all so much for advising me on this.
 
How long has it been since this happened? How have you changed?

I went through a somewhat similar experience when I was in college, and it took me 6 years to speak to him again. We became friends, but only because it was obvious to me that he had matured a lot during that time, and I trusted him not to do something like that to me again.
 
kita said:
How long has it been since this happened? How have you changed?

I went through a somewhat similar experience when I was in college, and it took me 6 years to speak to him again. We became friends, but only because it was obvious to me that he had matured a lot during that time, and I trusted him not to do something like that to me again.
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Such a big question...and such a good one. First, I should say what the problem was:

I was convinced that I was a worthless human being. I thought that I would never be able to do anything meaningful with my life, and that I would die alone and unfulfilled as a result. That's not a thought I could deal with.

Then this girl came into my life. I hated myself, but she didn’t. To the contrary, she was unbelievably sweet to me. I thought, “If someone like her wants to spend time with me, maybe I’m not so worthless after all.” And after a while, I began to put thoughts of death and my deficiencies aside. In a time when I had zero self-respect and self-love, when I hated myself so much that death became a temptation, she made me feel alright about myself. As you can imagine, I got a bit emotionally dependent on her as a result.

Then, just when I had grown completely dependent on her to supply me with the hope and self-esteem I couldn’t give myself, she took herself away. My pleasant delusion that I might actually be worth something, if not in my eyes than at least in someone else’s, was shattered. And I said fuck it.

Now, the solution: 1) I went on a mood-stabilizing antidepressant, which has made it so that I can only feel negative emotions in the mildest forms.

2) Probably even more importantly, I stopped smoking weed. I didn't realize it at the time, but pot makes me extremely confused and depressed, even from smoking it one single time in isolation. During the two months before I attempted suicide, I smoked once or twice every single day.

3) Solutions 1 and 2 healed my brain and allowed me to do the really important part, which was to realize that I'm sorta awesome. Sure, I've got a million and one faults and weaknesses, but I've also got a lot of strengths. What really matters to me though is that I have a purpose. That's all that really matters.

The full story of how I've changed would be even longer than 25 pages single-spaced, so I'll keep it to this bare bones view of the essentials. What do you think?

Edit: And by the way, I'm sorry for whatever he did to you.
 
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I think the shortened version is definitely better than the 25+ page one. If she is anything like me, knowing why it happened, that you are sorry, and that you are taking steps to change probably won't bring her back into your life. However it may soften her negative feelings towards you, and could lessen some fear about what you will do next (I think a 25 page letter might actually increase this fear). She is probably feeling traumatized and needs time to get over that.

I think you should be really careful about contacting her through a friend, since you are in danger of being expelled if it is shown to your school and they see that it was obviously meant to be passed to her. Be careful with your pronouns etc.
 
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First of all, you have to be honest with yourself about why you're contacting her. If you were her an outsider looking at this situation, would you want this for her - contact with someone who put her in a very difficult and emotionally traumatic situation? Is that fair to her? I'm sure it can't be easy for you. But it sounds like you're banking on her tendency to be considerate and accepting. You're hoping she will forgive you so that you can move forward. But is this best for her or just about making you feel better? Is this what someone who truly wants the best for a friend should want? Think about what's right for her, not what's feels desirable for you. I wish you all the best.
 
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I have some advice. Don't do it. Your approaching this from an ENTP manner. Which is to find loopholes, over argue logic out problems, and give off a creepy / deceptive vibe. Hell even I find you stalkerish. I understand why your taking this approach and I see you want this friend back. But I don't know if she will even forgive knowing INFJ's. And the point made earlier in this thread. She may forgive you, but I doubt things will ever go back to normal. I get the feeling you don't want to be forgiven as much as you want things to go back to normal. This isn't bad and I understand. But just know I don't see this happening. And if you must apologize keep it brief and if she doesn't contact you back leave her alone period. Sometimes you burn a bridge and it can't be rebuilt.
 
Loki said:
Dear INFJs—

I need your help. I need advice on how to gain the forgiveness of an INFJ who I treated very badly once upon a time. It takes me a lot to make me feel embarrassed or ashamed—sometimes I think I'm physiologically incapable of such feelings—but this story is bad enough that I certainly feel something akin to them. I'll try to be as brief as possible.

When I was a young kid, I was a classic ENTP. Once I got into first grade, my ENTP-style weirdness and unconventional ways socially isolated me. I withdrew from the outer world and started acting like an introvert, which scrambled my personality and made me falsely test as an INTP for a number of years. Despite acting and thinking like an introvert, I retained the needs of an extrovert, which for obvious reasons made me very unhappy. Eventually, I became profoundly depressed. By 11th grade, I was convinced I was a worthless human being.

Flash forward to a year ago, which was my first semester of college. At this point, I was seriously contemplating suicide. Then, for reasons that I still have trouble fathoming, an unbelievably sweet girl took me under her wing and initiated a relationship. I’m pretty sure this girl is an INFJ. She was so sweet that she started to coax my real ENTP personality out of hiding. I got completely emotionally dependent on her to supply me with the feeling of self-worth that I couldn’t give myself. Then she broke up with me because I think she got a little freaked out at how dependent I got. Then I may have kinda sorta tried to commit suicide.

Believe it or not, that’s not the worst part. I hope you don’t find this disturbing. Just remember—the only difference between a comedy and a tragedy is that everybody dies at the end of a tragedy, and at the end of a comedy they live and everything gets resolved. Nobody died, so it's a comedy. So, because God loves me even though I don’t believe in him, it just so happened that every single knife in my dorm was completely dull, so cutting didn’t work. I realized I would have to hack with the knife to make it work, which terrified me…so I called the one person who could me the courage to do so. Which was her. Next thing I know, she’s gotten into my dorm with half of campus security, and as soon as they find me, she runs out of the dorm crying. After that, I was informed that if I spoke to her or wrote to her I would be expelled. Which was quite reasonable under the circumstances. Just so you know, I am fully aware of what an asshole I am. Feel free to remind me of it though, sometimes that’s helpful.

I’ll spare you the overcoming adversity story that followed over the next year or so, but the ending is that I’m now a very happy and emotionally independent human being, and a well-rounded ENTP. And now, I want to be friends with the INFJ girl again. For the record, I am also aware that this is probably impossible, but you have to realize, I specialize in doing the impossible.

I’ve found a nice, non-threatening loophole in the no-contact rule by which I can contact her. If I write an email to a mutual friend, I’ve discovered that the friend probably forwards it to the INFJ. I’ve written the email and am currently editing it. The most glaring flaw I can see at the moment is its absurd length (25 pages single-spaced). If any of you wanted to read over the draft and let me know what you think, I would be eternally grateful.
Do you have any advice for me? How can I communicate in a way that she’ll listen? In this situation, what would you be able to hear? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

—Loki
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I would love to read over your draft, however I would also like to inform you that if this female has a restraining order against you, this would still be violating it if someone else forwarded the email...
Also; I don't think the letter will do anything but bring up the past emotions in which she was very hurt and upset with you. We don't really forgive, we try to forget and even that doesn't work the majority of the time.
 
Billy said:
Beg, if you pissed off an infj most likely its because you hurt your image of you to them with some form of ego or pride, I will go back and read your post in a second, but beg, sacrifice your dignity so that they can see you are sorry.
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Dang...that begging crap worked on me most of the time when I was young(and I would cave in)....but now that Im old...I appreciate a sincere, heartfelt, apology. Even though I would be relieved that you were getting your life back together I still might be done...but glad you were working on your character...later much later...I might want to see how you were doing with your act.
She might also see herself as a crutch you use to hurt yourself...so she may sacrifice any feelings she has to keep you safe. If that is the case then she is resolute....move on and appreciate the gift she was to you.
25 page letter is a bad idea. Most likely she knows any of your conscious or unconscious manipulation tactics and she will be reading between the lines....ANY inconsistencies and you are toast...and most likely you may not even know when you are being inconsistant.
25 page letter is a bad idea.
If you have a mutual friend then they might be sharing things about you...like MBTI...dont use them to manipulate "tell" her anything. Friends talk about each other so dont worry.
Some people are best when they are apart. What is meant to be will be.
 
Stop and think for a second; why are you contacting her? Because you want to be friends? Sorry buddy, but that ship has sailed for the time being. If you are the healthy person you claim to be (and I'm not doubting that you are) why do you so desperately want to be her friend? If you are healthy, I'm assuming it is out of guilt for what you did. If that is the case, an "I'm sorry" is really all you're allowed in my book. You did what you did, the situation was terrible for everyone involved, but I'm under the impression that you called her up to tell her that you were going to commit suicide. Emotional abuse in my book, and trust me, it is not fun being on the receiving end of that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming you for what you did, but you did it, and you need to accept that.

For all of the suffering you've been through, think about what she has been through as well. What emotions will you bring up if you contact her? What will she feel? She had to get all sorts of people involved in your relationship to stop you from harming yourself, that shows she cared. She's probably been doing her best to cope with everything that happened, and by contacting her you're going to put her through a whirl-wind of all sorts of emotions. If you care about her in the least bit, you owe it to her to leave her alone.

*warning!* She has a restraining order against you. Is contacting her (even indirectly) really worth all of the trouble with the school, let alone the law?
 
25 pages about how sorry you are? You sound like you still got some life to get together first before you contact her.
 
I had a similar experience with a friend during high school, he was depressed and attempted suicide previously, but I cut the contact with him as soon as I became aware of how dependent he is becoming of me, which was probably a lot sooner than in your case with your friend.

Anyhow, my advice is that you don't contact her now. If it were me, I would be very suspicious of changes you've goon in a year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you are not getting better, you probably are, but the way that you are planing to contact her would be too needy, too much of a reminder why she ran away in the first place, if it were me in the her shoes. This is why people here are telling you to keep it simple. If you really are better and not dependent on people any more, than you are not going to insist on that contact that much.

I hope that you don't mind my bluntness.

Btw, why do you want her friendship and forgiveness that much?
 
One thing is sure to NOT do it: pushing it. If you try to push and ask and beg too much, you'll only freak out the already freaked out INFJ even more, to close the doors for you even thicker.

I've seen INFJ forgiveness many times (for, in my own opinion sometimes unforgivable deeds), but it seems to be because I truly regret and give up asking for it or insisting to get accepted. I truly assume that I have failed and that's it... and sometimes that has been sensed and eventually responded favorably again. But I never count on it. And to be honest am each time absolutely terrified if I reach a point of no return with an INFJ, because I know there's nothing much to do then. Of course, life goes on, but some sense of goodness in me is lost in such case, because I tend to believe in the universal goodness of INFJs almost unquestionably.
 
I've been in her shoes too. She needs space from you and to know you're sorry. If she knows this, then that is enough. I'd not send a 25 page letter.

One day she may contact you for her own closure. I'd suggest that if you want this too, then put it out there to your mutual friends. That is all you should do with this. Leave it with her now and do her a favor and just continue to improve on yourself.
 
If you really ripped up the heart of an INFJ, you'll never be able to go back to where you were again. There are exceptions and such....but for the most part, it'll be tough. The only way is to show them how the way you treated them was not who you really are. *However*, this is only if that is the case---if not, they can immediately sniff up a lie.
 
Time is the best gift you can give to an INFJ.
She knows you're sorry, so leave it at that. Give her space to breath, there's no need to smother her with letters or essays, it will end up only making the hole deeper.
You need to get your life back on track first.

I know when us NTP's are depressed, we are not really ourselves. We tend to do stupid things without thinking first or coming up with a logical reason to what we are about to do is right. Our sense of reality becomes very distorted, the perfect timing to screw up everything and everyone around us. Its like a being in dream and we don't realize what we have done until we have woken up.
Its like us NTP's become highly intelligent zombies, searching for someone who we can dump our emotions onto, without realizing it is like a knock out blow for the person who receives it.

Have you considered working with a psychologist?
Your friend is your friend and INFJ's are some of the best friends you can have by your side. However, your friend is not your psychologist and vice versa.

Listen to what the others say, after all they are INFJ's. Strangely enough, they have a habit of being right as much as you or me or some other NTP's here on the board may not like it or whatever.
Take their advice on this one. However, don't regret what you have done in the past. Regret is like a poison. Instead learn from your mistakes.
One of the main problems I could see occurring if you get back in contact with her is that you might slip back into your pattern of depression, that's why you need to give it time, for your sake and her sake.
 
I dunno an INFJ door slammed me that I hurt one time, I wrote a long letter and got no response. I decided to write another letter like 4 months later out of the blue, and she responded out of curiosity and we got back on good terms at least enough that the guilt I felt for hurting her were slightly assuaged.

Time definitely helped.
 
yeah... this sounds like a terrible idea even to me, and INTPs are stereotypically awful at this kind of stuff. I definitely do agree with the very short "I'm really sorry about that... I regret it a ton" being way more effective than anything else. It's really.... both nagging and impatient, is what it sounds like. A 25 page letter is almost insisting/demanding that things go back to the way they were, and in the form of an argument ("pure" argument, that is "situation X has changed for reasons A, B, C, ...") nonetheless. Think of the person you're addressing... engaging the Ti of an INFJ to convince them is probably analogous to engaging your Fe (if you're really an xNTP, that is). Ever see one of those commercials showing videos of starving children while they ask for you to donate money? Yeah: they make me uncomfortable and I avoid them too. I actually used to hate them, but in growing up I just kind of avoid them now. Picking at someone's weak spot simply isn't a good way of connecting with them.

The short "just let her know... I am really sorry about that," and maybe an "if she ever decides she wants to talk to me, tell her how to get in touch... otherwise I'm gonna leave her alone," followed by a long silence, is almost certainly a better call. If it's sincere, you'll tickle the Fe a little bit... and in the silence, you can be sure her Ni will be churning away on possibilities. Quite frankly, I think the less she knows about how you've been (until you talk for real, of course), the better, as it'll give her mind more "unknown" to work with. Plus it's just more respectful. Instead of the nagging "if you're reasonable, you'll come talk to me" (with the implied semi-threatening "if you don't talk to me, you're unreasonable" in the background) connotation that an argument contains, it comes with the "I respect your time, and you can make your own decisions" connotation.

mf said:
Stop and think for a second; why are you contacting her? Because you want to be friends? ... If you are the healthy person you claim to be (and I'm not doubting that you are) why do you so desperately want to be her friend? If you are healthy, I'm assuming it is out of guilt for what you did. If that is the case, an "I'm sorry" is really all you need in my book.
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^^also, that--just with those small words changed
 
Ok just a quick update to everyone before I do other responses: I've taken your strong and universal suggestion that brevity is the soul of wit under advisement, and I've cut it down to 9 pages.
 
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