So what if! what some people believe to be God is in effect the very consciousness of the universe which is also paradoxically connected to our own?
Here is a short video link concerning the developments in quantum physics and is good link for further research for anyone interested in this field of science.
The truth is out there and within.
Just re-read the thread (after answering ). What a great thread! I actually expected people to talk in terms of faith but everyone is making rational analysis with mature and reasonable ideas.
Quote Originally Posted by Bikerdelic View Post
So what if! what some people believe to be God is in effect the very consciousness of the universe which is also paradoxically connected to our own?
Here is a short video link concerning the developments in quantum physics and is good link for further research for anyone interested in this field of science.
The truth is out there and within.
Great video, Bikerdelic (I posted my previous answer before seeing it). You might like this short story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitely_Maybe_(novel)
An interesting author, thanks for recommending.Thankyou Soulpatcher for sharing that, the novel reminds me a little of the writings of Michael Moorcock. Two great books to read by Michael are both concerning time travel, one book "Behold the man" is about a guy who travels time in a machine in search of the real historical Jesus, I won't tell you the rest as it would spoil the effect of the book if you were too read it, but it does have a poignant ending. Also "Dancers on the edge of time" is a great read.
Well, I personally am more scientifically inclined, but this is a great perspective, thanks.Bikerdelic said:Well I have set up a little humble page on face book called "Mysterious universe" where I have collected interesting video's relating to the subject of quantum physics and the new discoveries that relate to human consciousness, Buddhism and other schools of thought. I add from time to time interesting videos that either concern the nature the quantum science or that of spiritual philosophy. Its a place where I can reveal some of the links and some of my own ideas.
Check out the discussion between the quantum scientist and the Dalai Lama, its a bit long winded at first as the Dalai Lama is using a translator to fully understand the questions and answers, but it is very revealing and explains what I was referring to in some of my threads, concerning knowledge being a fundamental force of the universe and existence, explained far more scientifically than I could ever hope to muster.
here's the link if your interested in reading further.
https://www.facebook.com/Gnosticmystic?ref=hl
BTW, re alternative interpretations of Jesus / Judas. This one is a bit extreme but not completely illogical: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Versions_of_JudasThankyou Soulpatcher for sharing that, the novel reminds me a little of the writings of Michael Moorcock. Two great books to read by Michael are both concerning time travel, one book "Behold the man" is about a guy who travels time in a machine in search of the real historical Jesus, I won't tell you the rest as it would spoil the effect of the book if you were too read it, but it does have a poignant ending. Also "Dancers on the edge of time" is a great read.
I was looking over the Ten Commandments and there's something that always bothered me about them. The first 4 deal with what to/not do when worshiping God. When you read them, however, they're very... human in the emotions being displayed.
Those Commandments coupled with other references in the Bible of a "vengeful" God, etc. all negate the argument for God in my opinion. If God is truly God, why would he display such human weaknesses such as greed, jealousy and anger? Or is God as imperfect as humans? Which then begs the question - Why worship him?
Anyone ever see Star Trek V (or am I the only one... ever?) when they meet "God" but he needs their ship and then they immediately question a God who wold need a starship? Bingo! Same thing.
Personally, I feel if God is the perfect being people like to believe him to be, it shouldn't matter what you believe or how you choose to live your life as long as you're a "good" person (friendly, helpful, compassionate, etc.) God granted us all free will, so if he has any human emotions, he should feel happy when he sees us use this to evolve and move on. After all, what parent still wants to see their kid living in their house with them into their 50's?
If part of his perfection is having no emotions, then I fail to see why he would care if we did or didn't believe in him.
And as a Buddhist, I wouldn't say that I don't believe in God. I would say that God is irrelevant. I he is real, he's either A) happy to see me practice the free will he granted me with or B) indifferent to anything I do or say. And since Buddhism also teaches about the pain and suffering anger causes and the goal is to gravitate away from that, then the idea of a jealous, angry, vengeful God negates the entire concept behind God.
[MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION] - Pascal's Wager only works for those who can accept the bearded guy who knowingly and lovingly creates creatures specifically to burn through eternity.
Of course I am agnostic in the most fundamental sense. I do not know if there is a Divine, and I generally find any arguments attempting to prove or disprove his/her/its existence circular (or silly)
Logic prevents me from accepting Fundamentalist Christianity. I tried - growing up in a hyperreligious home will do that to you!
But for me, believing and knowing are not synonymous. "Life of Pi" is on high school reading lists, an easy read, but the author buries some big concepts in his parable. Although he explicitly berates the agnostic for his "dry, yeastless factuality," the theme of the story is agnostic belief. Although he subtly proves the "unknowableness" of the existence of God, he urges the reader to choose to believe - or not believe.
So I choose to believe in a Divine. Not the desert God, and probably not a discrete, sentient entity. I know athiests who admit that the Divine can't be disproven, and are more comfortable believing that no Divine of any sort exists. For these athiests, their choice may be a product of temperament, personality, or socialization, just as my choice to believe is a product of my own makeup and experience.
Pascal. Pfft. If I get turned away at the pearly gates because of my quasi-pantheistic, fuzzy view of the Divine, ol' petey's done me a favor. I'd much prefer to spend eternity with Gandhi than Fred Phelps, so bring on the sunscreen and cold beer - will be a lively eternity!
Just re-read the thread (after answering ). What a great thread! I actually expected people to talk in terms of faith but everyone is making rational analysis with mature and reasonable ideas.
Great video, Bikerdelic (I posted my previous answer before seeing it). You might like this short story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitely_Maybe_(novel)
I was looking over the Ten Commandments and there's something that always bothered me about them. The first 4 deal with what to/not do when worshiping God. When you read them, however, they're very... human in the emotions being displayed.
Those Commandments coupled with other references in the Bible of a "vengeful" God, etc. all negate the argument for God in my opinion. If God is truly God, why would he display such human weaknesses such as greed, jealousy and anger? Or is God as imperfect as humans? Which then begs the question - Why worship him?
So bible 101, man is created in God's image, meaning your body and soul is his likeness, literally like him. So to state that God has seemingly human emotions is kind of backwards. It would be better to say people are displaying godly emotions, and these emotions would only breed weakness when coupled with sin and imperfection. Or as the Doctor would say, "You look Time Lord"
Anyone ever see Star Trek V (or am I the only one... ever?) when they meet "God" but he needs their ship and then they immediately question a God who wold need a starship? Bingo! Same thing.
God doesn't need people, that's made abundantly clear throughout the Bible, you won't find people doing anything that helps God in some shape or form. When God uses men in his action's it's for man's benefit(or a particular group of men at least).
Personally, I feel if God is the perfect being people like to believe him to be, it shouldn't matter what you believe or how you choose to live your life as long as you're a "good" person (friendly, helpful, compassionate, etc.) God granted us all free will, so if he has any human emotions, he should feel happy when he sees us use this to evolve and move on. After all, what parent still wants to see their kid living in their house with them into their 50's?
I can't argue with your feelings, but suffice to say that what you consider good, and what God consider's good are vastly different and it would require a fundamental shift in your perception of reality to understand it. Not that you can't, or would even agree with it if you did.
If part of his perfection is having no emotions, then I fail to see why he would care if we did or didn't believe in him.
Just going to point out that again that God has emotions, ranging from feelings of love mercy and peace; to justice, anger and vengeance.
And as a Buddhist, I wouldn't say that I don't believe in God. I would say that God is irrelevant. I he is real, he's either A) happy to see me practice the free will he granted me with or B) indifferent to anything I do or say. And since Buddhism also teaches about the pain and suffering anger causes and the goal is to gravitate away from that, then the idea of a jealous, angry, vengeful God negates the entire concept behind God.
Just going to put it out there that your gravitating away from a concept of God that's only half rendered when you only see vengeance and Anger.
Anthropomorphisms abound in the Old Testament.
My take is that God is not angered, or indeed affected in any way by our decisions. He's perfect & perfectly happy - and nothing we do either adds, or takes away from his happiness.
God doesn't need us, or our worship.
The first commandments are to help us, not God.
The fear of the Lord is wisdom, and the turning away from evil understanding. This is an important key.
Do you understand what the fear of the Lord is?And this is why I'm an agnostic /atheist