How many INFJs assumed they were Ts before they understood typology?

I always used to type as INTJ on online tests. It was only recently when I looked more into MBTI that the INTJ descriptions relating to my interactions with people didn't match up completely... then I discovered the function stacks and realized that I was actually much closer to INFJ than I was to INTJ. It was unexpected, but I now realize it explains a lot more about myself than INTJ ever did...
 
The key to all this is that the test isn't measuring quite the same thing as the functions.

Feelings vs Logic doesn't map squarely onto the tender vs tough dichotomy. There's ways in which the two are related, but it's not like they're positively related in all ways -- for example, sometimes value judgments/judgments of the heart are harsh. The correct view of T-judgment is more as value-neutral than toughminded in value judgments.
 
How can you assume T if you don't understand Typology?

I always knew I was very intuitive and introverted before I took the test, that's about it.
 
vox said:
From what I've read, it's not uncommon practice to use S tendencies as an insult on these forums. I'm still new here, but I would hope that that isn't entirely true, and that the people on this board would be more open-minded than that.
Click to expand...

I know this is from a while ago, just quoting/responding since the thread's been revived

I think a really large portion of the problem here (besides the obvious of people just wanting to pick on Ss) is that there are two definitions of S: one that corresponds to the Big 5 Openness dimension (and correlates most directly with the MBTI test), and the other which corresponds to the functions theories.
I'm not sure exactly how I feel about the Big 5, other than that it has empirical support -- I think on some level, there seems to be a kind of bias in society towards certain poles of the Big 5, like Open>its opposite, Conscientious > its opposite, Agreeable > its opposite.

But in a way, if one goes by Jungian definitions, it's almost like the tables are turned on the N-S dichotomy: like the sensation/thinking types were the scientists, archetype-wise -- they were the adherents to reality vs the intuitives were the out there dreamers. In fact, Jung, who is probably one of the most flagrantly N in the "traditional" MBTI dichotomies, even typed himself a ST type in his functions theory originally, and I think he meant it as a compliment to himself, not the opposite. He tended to want to be seen as more scientific than he was (albeit very thoughtful in his own way).

____________

On an unrelated note, I forget if I already wrote this in this thread, but anyway, I'd say I'm one of the T types with reasonable F (and I identify as a T much more by a functions theory notion than by the so-called tough/tender dichotomy that pervades the dichotomies), kind of the complementary pole to a NiFTS type who has reasonably balanced F and T.
 
Yes, I did think I was a T at first - INTP. However, as I learn about cognitive functions, I realised that INFJ could very well fit me, and I thought about the subject for a long time, and now I am certain that I am an INFJ, although my Fe is quite lacking due to social anxiety.
 
@Deleted member 16771 is one, so he could tell you.

A close friend and I are a lot alike, so it made sense that she would be an INFJ, but she didn't give MBTI much of a chance after a free test claimed she was INFJ because the INFJ description was a little off. She claimed she felt, "Too rare to be the type that is all over the Internet." (This makes me laugh to this day because she is correct that INFJs are all over the Internet.) She is creative, generous, and caring. We geek out on very Ni conversations and as artists, we both have well-developed inferior Se. There were Te cues, though. She is an accountant. She is only caring with those in her circle and claims she doesn't care about random strangers. She can accomplish whatever she sets out to do. My SO is an INTJ, too, and he masters everything he attempts. He is also extremely generous with those he can truly extend trust to. What is different about her is that, as a woman, she was given the social freedom to develop her Fi, so she seems like a feeler if you know her well. She has a glowing, inclusive warmth that makes me feel accepted. She's well-liked. She finally took the official test and she had the experience people often have with MBTI when their type truly speaks for them. She said everything made sense and it helped her with life goals.

Another... I don't know how he tested as INFJ. He's the classical INTJ: A technically talented musician, enjoyed Te-driven debate, has a scalding disregard for people's feelings when they disagree with him, and doesn't see the gray area with people (though he pretends to). Most well-developed INTJs I know do show their soft sides, so this probably threw the test. He is comfortable showing emotion and his music is soulful.
I think he also used Humanmetrics, which is notorious for mistyping people.
 
Asa said:
Another... I don't know how he tested as INFJ. He's the classical INTJ: A technically talented musician, enjoyed Te-driven debate, has a scalding disregard for people's feelings when they disagree with him, and doesn't see the gray area with people (though he pretends to). Most well-developed INTJs I know do show their soft sides, so this probably threw the test. He is comfortable showing emotion and his music is soulful.
I think he also used Humanmetrics, which is notorious for mistyping people.
Click to expand...

Thanks @Asa , very enlightening. I bolded what I found most telling.

As I wrote in the thread I started yesterday,
https://www.infjs.com/threads/why-t-f-is-a-mess-and-help-me-clarify-mine.38065/

INTJ and INFJ are two flavors of the same type, only that the INFJ is more agreeable but yielding and the INTJ is less empathic but tougher.
Click to expand...

I've gone mad trying to figure out my T/F with Fe-Ti vs Te-Fi, but I truly believe it all boils down to this. If you are borderline T/F (kind of in the middle, as I am), maybe INxJ would be a better label; however, I find that INTJ profiles are more extreme, INFJ are more nuances and varied (INFJs are known for coming in different flavors and being more chameleonic), so one could argue that the INTJ label is more adequate for a clear T (I met quite a few in college and work), while INFJ is more for both clear F and "flexible" T/F.
I would even go so far as to say that flexible T/F is actually the quintessential definition of "Feeeling as a rational function". T is logic and facts, F is logic and facts + human values and ethics.
The confusion stems from the wrong assumption that F is NOT logic and facts, which is more an SFP thing really, like acting on a whim. Quite alien to an INJ, I suppose.
 
I never got INFJ doing the test. My results were always either INTP or INTJ (though I did get INFP once).

It didn't help that people around me who knew the test (but without a deeper understanding of typology) usually typed me as INTP!

So yeah, I relate a lot to INFJs who used to think they were T :sunglasses: (if only, if only...)
 
@mancino – Interesting description.

mancino said:
so one could argue that the INTJ label is more adequate for a clear T (I met quite a few in college and work), while INFJ is more for both clear F and "flexible" T/F.
Click to expand...

Agree.

Ti and Te also work differently, and once you've nailed down the thinking process that is most comfortable for you, it is easier to type yourself.
For example: Ti thinkers prefer to process ideas internally before deciding what they think. This makes them good at sharing ideas, but they don't excel at debate. Te users are quick and confident with sharing ideas, and their delivery sounds factual, even when it isn't. They dominate debates. Stephen Hawking was purportedly an INTJ, and Albert Einstein an INTP.


mancino said:
I would even go so far as to say that flexible T/F is actually the quintessential definition of "Feeling as a rational function". T is logic and facts, F is logic and facts + human values and ethics.
The confusion stems from the wrong assumption that F is NOT logic and facts, which is more an SFP thing really, like acting on a whim. Quite alien to an INJ, I suppose.
Click to expand...

This is interesting.

Personally, Ni/Fe/Ti seem mushed together, like they work as a plaited Mobius strip. My Fe is lower than many INFJs (particularly female ones) and my Ti is well-developed, but I still "feel" my way around ideas. I can't separate Ni and Ti at all in my brain. Even though I know one is concerned with logic, and the other is concerned with perception, they work in harmony to form ideas. I can say Fe doesn't take part in idea forming because I am not "emotional" about ideas, but Fe also works with observation.

During those famous "predictive" ("I knew that was going to happen") moments Intuives have, INTJs use Ni/Te/Se and INFJs use Ni/Fe/Se. As a result, INTJs excel at predicting the mechanics of a situation, while INFJs excel at reading the people and animal aspects of a situation. This seems to be "thinking with Fe".


Ni takes all the intuitive information it receives and orients it inward to perceive meaning, purpose, essence, or vision. Since Ni focuses on perceiving these conceptual, between-the-lines qualities, its perceptions can appear more global and “universal” in nature. However, Ni is not a judging function, so it is not up to Ni to make a judgment about whether something is “true”.
Click to expand...

Ti “searches” for internal logical consistency, but this may or may not be in regards to universal truths. Ti looks to make sense of things logically, and if the result of that process is the discovery of some universal truth (like a mathematical law or logical understanding of a system), so be it.
Click to expand...


Te looks outwardly at objective logic to determine what’s true and false. Therefore, “searching for what makes logical sense” is a more accurate way to describe what Ti does, whereas Te is focused on determining what’s “objectively logical”.
Click to expand...



Source of quotes


Edit: Now, I need coffee!!!
 
Asa said:
I know more people who thought they were INFJs and turned out to be INTJs than the other way around.
Click to expand...
mancino said:
Interesting, I've always heard it the other way around.

Could you tell us more about them? Why were they mistyped and how did they come to find their "true" type?
Click to expand...
Asa said:
New @Deleted member 16771 is one, so he could tell you.
Click to expand...

In my case, I took a test (I'm not sure where now, but looking at the website design it might be humanmetrics (lol, Asa)) and it returned INFJ, which seemed to make a lot of sense to me at the time.

What resonated was the notion that I was a 'feely introvert', and some descriptions of INFJs are idealistic (which I am) and mediators (which I'd been). When I took the test, I'd come to the end of a few years' stint in schoolteaching, which involved a hard-fought industrial dispute and various other crises. Then I joined this forum.

My type was questioned by my girlfriend at the time, who turned out to be right (perhaps) but for the wrong reasons. Later on I paid for the official MBTI test and got INTJ.


One explanation why I might have typed as INFJ could have been the skills I'd developed in my recent career as a teacher. @John K has spoken about this on a few occasions, but essentially it might be the case that 'Fe' was something in demand in my profession, and so I'd leaned into it.

Now, as an INTJ, it's not difficult to 'care' - in fact one can care very powerfully about a number of things - but 'showing it' doesn't come naturally. I think for me I'd 'learned' how to 'show it' in the few years before taking the test as a deliberate project, and so it may have formed a greater part of my recent/conscious psyche.

However, before that (we're talking pre age 27), I was your typical New Atheist INTJ. Then I had a kind of 'spiritual awakening' which led me to focus on the things I really cared about (that is, people, love, &c.), and be open about the more mystical aspects of life without judgement (e.g. now I'll talk about astrology with anyone from the position of a kind of agnostic openness, whereas before I would think of it as ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT).

Again, I think this 'leaning into' my feeling or spiritual side might have skewed the result, in addition to being very averse to INTJ descriptions I'd seen (they sound awful, don't they?).


Hmm, I hope that makes sense - apologies for the haphazard structure.
 
Ren said:
Wonder what CS Joseph would have said about you. ESTP?
Click to expand...
Lmao... wait

No
CS Joseph* said:
Chase: So Se inferior, again, they’re very insecure about giving someone a bad experience. They’re always afraid that they’re going to not do well. This is literally performance anxiety. INTJ’s have serious performance anxiety. It’s even worse for INTJ’s though, than INFJ’s, to be honest, in some cases. Why? Because if an INFJ knows with their Fe parent that they’re making someone feel good, at least they can have more confidence what they’re doing makes someone feel good, but the INTJ doesn’t even have that luxury, because with Fe trickster, that social awkwardness, that whole, “I don’t know how anyone else around me feels. I don’t know if anyone actually likes me. So because I don’t know that they like me or not, I don’t know they’re also going to have an experience.”

Chase: And it just becomes this double whammy, and they end up in this endless loop of, “I don’t know what I’m doing, and I don’t know if I should be initiating sex right now or not.” Yeah, it’s pretty interesting. But, let’s be honest, if the Se inferior can get over its insecurity, and it becomes aspirational, that ESFP subconscious comes out, and then the INTJ becomes literally one of the best types in bed. They are absolutely amazing when they’re aspiring with their Se inferior, because their partners becomes this canvas with which they paint upon and they always are devoted to making it an absolute great experience for their partner. And they can go away, they can get away from that insecurity, that anxiety, that performance anxiety they have.
Click to expand...

ESFP


*https://csjoseph.life/who-are-the-intjs/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Asa said:
Ti and Te also work differently, and once you've nailed down the thinking process that is most comfortable for you, it is easier to type yourself.
For example: Ti thinkers prefer to process ideas internally before deciding what they think. This makes them good at sharing ideas, but they don't excel at debate. Te users are quick and confident with sharing ideas, and their delivery sounds factual, even when it isn't. They dominate debates. Stephen Hawking was purportedly an INTJ, and Albert Einstein an INTP.
Click to expand...

That's definitely not my case, I'm good at debating but only in written form and given enough time. To be fair, this may be affected by things like leading a sequestered lifestyle where I practically don't speak all day. Additionally, I check off a lot of autism symptoms even though I was never diagnosed. One has to wonder how MBTI takes this into account.

I'm still not completely sure how my Te works. I used to test as INFP and INTP a lot and had a great "debunking" theory about Ti and Fi being functionally the same and interchangeable. I was never satisfied with how lackadaisical the definitions are, where they want to present them as something concrete, but still being very Barnum effecty. I really want to expound on this, but first I need like 5 hours to formulate it lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top