If only I could feel this way about God

Well OK then, I'll tell you a story.

I was raised a Christian. Not in the American sense, you understand, but in the British. This means that everyone is just assumed to believe in God, and the teachings of Christ, and the only services you might attend are various rites of passage (usually just funerals to be honest). Nobody has any doctrinal knowledge or really an opinion on these matters. It might be more accurate to say that a lot of British Christians are really just theists with a Christian cultural baggage.

So in my late teens and early twenties, I became an atheist, purely based upon the materialistic and scientific worldview. Richard Dawkins' 'new atheism' was really getting going then. God just didn't exist.

Then in my mid twenties, I had two very serious existential crises. I became obsessed with a singular question: 'why does anything exist?'

It was an oppressive question, forcing its way into my mind when I least desired it. It caused terror and real dread. I could feel the emptiness of the void closing in and enveloping me a lot of the time; nothing felt real, existence was absurd.

Then I experienced my darkest moment. I was on a leave of absense from university to investigate my sleep issues (this was when I was finally diagnosed with DSPD), so I was spending a lot of time in the house (essentially nocturnal) playing video games. One night, after a build up of existential dread each previous night, I 'met the void' or 'went into the void' - that's the only way I can describe it.

So it's night, and 'the question' is pressing in on me as I'm trying to play the game. I've been avoiding it, so this time, I decide to focus on it, to think on it. I switch off the PlayStation and sit in bed. I'm terrified.

The void closes in and I feel like I'm being confronted with absolute reality - the nothingness of existence, the void, the abyss. I cannot comprehend it. I perceived the room (it would be more accurate to say, I remember) the room darkening and the lights flickering, as I was physically enveloped by the cold darkness of nothingness. I am fucking bricking it.

I'm crying, I can't bear it. Then, at a certain point, I completely give in and say 'God, help me'. At precisely that moment, I feel like I am enveloped by the most comforting warmth imaginable. The darkness is banished, the room returns to normal, and all I feel is an overwhelming sense of love.

Still in tears, I go downstairs and tell my mum everything. She doesn't understand, but I explain to her the 'revelation' I had, about the divine preciousness of other individuals. I perceived others as burning with a bright, divine light. I felt that each person, everyone, was God, and was therefore worthy of unlimited tolerance and love.

Now, I'm a rationalist, so the next day, I knew what the probable cause was biochemically. I started to take vitamin D supplements, and the dread vanished. I started to go to the gym, and I sold my PlayStation. I was still afraid of experiencing the dread. I had one other crisis a year later, when Star Wars Episode VII came out, but nothing since, as I think I've fully integrated what happened, and am no longer vulnerable to existential dread.

So, I had an incredibly vivid religious experience, 'felt God's love' and received a 'revelation', so am I a believer? No.

I know the biochemical rationale of what happened, but equally I just cannot conceive of why anything exists at all. Infinity is sometimes a satisfying answer, but if course I don't know.

This is the truth: we don't know if God exists, and I am an agnostic.

I think my body saved me from the crisis by releasing a load of DMT or something like that - it was a survival mechanism. Humans capable of thinking themselves into an existential stupor must have evolved a response to deal with it fir the survival of the species (religion).

This is why I mentioned the various, mysterious 'higher gods' in my above post. Some people view agnosticism as a kind of equivocating, unsure, 'ooh I don't know' middle road between theism and atheism.

This is not my agnosticism. I am comfortable with the mystery. You could say, 'the mystery is my religion'. I don't know, and that's great!

I feel incredibly human and integrated. I can honestly speak to anyone about their religious belief with an open heart, just as I can speak to those with no belief with the same openness.

My God is humanity. I have a warm, calm, benevolent feeling knowing that we are all bound together as part of this wonderful mystery called life. I am happy to experience it without dread, but with a childlike curiosity.

Agnosticism to me is solid, it's real, it's the choice. It isn't in between two 'proper choices', it stands alone, wise, benevolent and honest.

That's my perspective. Now, I'm not suggesting that you have to go through an existential crisis! However, you may have to reorient your experience of the divine.

For me it's oriented towards people - a full and unfettered experience of agape.

P.S. I mean 'divine' as in something like, 'a thing of cosmic importance and value'. It might have something to do with a God, but it doesn't matter.

Holy shit, how are you so much like me? I was just thinking a lot of the things you just typed.. But on my own. Like for example... "The choice"... Not in between two proper choices... But beingon its own. I was staring at the picture and diagrams of atheism vs theism... I was like, "why is there no other fucking choice? There is so much in between there! Also, in accepting that it's a mystery... And being okay with it, I often know that deep down, that IS my belief, but becoming comfortable with that is scary, bc I was raised a southern Baptist, and I'm still fear mongering myself in a way....
There were many more details and things that you said, but about your whole post, I love it. Thank you!!!
Oh, the part about humanity! I could comment with so much detail on every feckin' thing you said and it still wouldn't explain how your mind blows my mind (probably because as I've discussed it so eerily similar to mine). It's also inspiring, very. Thank you for this story and explanation!
 
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I accept the possibility that I may have it completely incorrect.
I could very well just blink out of existence when I die - but I will never know, so why be afraid of that?
People are afraid of being tortured in Hell...I just don’t see any logical sense in that...a God creating us knowing who is going to be damned and then creating Hell (because he knows and created all things) only to see those people pre-damned (because God supposedly knows all including what is to come..i.e. see- Revelations) burn and roast for eternity.
That view right there is what I cannot logically, spiritually, or morally agree with.
And that right there is why people don’t like my views and challenge me, call me names, ask for proof they don’t look at, etc., etc.
That’s fine, they can still believe what they wish and I certainly don’t view myself as any better, smarter, more spiritual, or otherwise than anyone else.
I have to admit that reincarnation looks like it could be possible...which imho would suck...but also, unprovable.
For the most part I have formed many of my opinions about the afterlife by reading accounts of those who have died and been there.
Subjective I know...but also the best evidence we have...and there are a surprising number of correlations/similarities between them.
I find that fascinating...these were clinically dead people...no brain wave activity took place - so where were they?
IMHO it is far more likely there is something after we die based on subjective experiences that people have had across time, religions, societies, etc, for as long as our history is remembered.
The most common “ghost” sighting/experience is someone coming to say goodbye to someone they love dearly - and in most cases of this happening, that person who saw that “spirit” knew of that person’s death before anyone else or any phone calls had been made.
There are also thousands of people who had precognitive dreams of the twin tower disaster on 9-11 that night before...none knowing what it meant.
I find evidence like that (which I put in my Merkabah thread) so compelling and suggestive of a higher or collective consciousness...a knowing...an ability to transcend this normal space and effect things that shouldn’t happen according the science textbooks.
So naturally God is possible also....I just don’t think we can understand the concept even slightly without a major enlightenment taking place.
I highly enjoy your contribution to this thread and based off of what you said I will be going over to Merkabah to explore!!!

I also think that reincarnation makes a lot of sense... But what I think could be possible is so complex in my mind that I don't properly have the actual words to explain what I mean. I would have to sit down and quite for hours to untangle it all in my mind and even then I would need words that I don't know the definition to. It's almost as if my thoughts about that subject (and many other subjects) aren't words... They are just things that are known to me and they don't have words to define them... Does that make any sense at all? Lol
 
@Skarekrow thanks for the links!!!

I am so intrigued! I love this discussion so much. Thank you guys so much for participating even though I know you have participated elsewhere and likely have said the same things there. It can be intimidating and incredibly time consuming to read every single forum post to try and get a sense of people.
 
Well OK then, I'll tell you a story.

I was raised a Christian. Not in the American sense, you understand, but in the British. This means that everyone is just assumed to believe in God, and the teachings of Christ, and the only services you might attend are various rites of passage (usually just funerals to be honest). Nobody has any doctrinal knowledge or really an opinion on these matters. It might be more accurate to say that a lot of British Christians are really just theists with a Christian cultural baggage.

So in my late teens and early twenties, I became an atheist, purely based upon the materialistic and scientific worldview. Richard Dawkins' 'new atheism' was really getting going then. God just didn't exist.

Then in my mid twenties, I had two very serious existential crises. I became obsessed with a singular question: 'why does anything exist?'

It was an oppressive question, forcing its way into my mind when I least desired it. It caused terror and real dread. I could feel the emptiness of the void closing in and enveloping me a lot of the time; nothing felt real, existence was absurd.

Then I experienced my darkest moment. I was on a leave of absense from university to investigate my sleep issues (this was when I was finally diagnosed with DSPD), so I was spending a lot of time in the house (essentially nocturnal) playing video games. One night, after a build up of existential dread each previous night, I 'met the void' or 'went into the void' - that's the only way I can describe it.

So it's night, and 'the question' is pressing in on me as I'm trying to play the game. I've been avoiding it, so this time, I decide to focus on it, to think on it. I switch off the PlayStation and sit in bed. I'm terrified.

The void closes in and I feel like I'm being confronted with absolute reality - the nothingness of existence, the void, the abyss. I cannot comprehend it. I perceived the room (it would be more accurate to say, I remember) the room darkening and the lights flickering, as I was physically enveloped by the cold darkness of nothingness. I am fucking bricking it.

I'm crying, I can't bear it. Then, at a certain point, I completely give in and say 'God, help me'. At precisely that moment, I feel like I am enveloped by the most comforting warmth imaginable. The darkness is banished, the room returns to normal, and all I feel is an overwhelming sense of love.

Still in tears, I go downstairs and tell my mum everything. She doesn't understand, but I explain to her the 'revelation' I had, about the divine preciousness of other individuals. I perceived others as burning with a bright, divine light. I felt that each person, everyone, was God, and was therefore worthy of unlimited tolerance and love.

Now, I'm a rationalist, so the next day, I knew what the probable cause was biochemically. I started to take vitamin D supplements, and the dread vanished. I started to go to the gym, and I sold my PlayStation. I was still afraid of experiencing the dread. I had one other crisis a year later, when Star Wars Episode VII came out, but nothing since, as I think I've fully integrated what happened, and am no longer vulnerable to existential dread.

So, I had an incredibly vivid religious experience, 'felt God's love' and received a 'revelation', so am I a believer? No.

I know the biochemical rationale of what happened, but equally I just cannot conceive of why anything exists at all. Infinity is sometimes a satisfying answer, but if course I don't know.

This is the truth: we don't know if God exists, and I am an agnostic.

I think my body saved me from the crisis by releasing a load of DMT or something like that - it was a survival mechanism. Humans capable of thinking themselves into an existential stupor must have evolved a response to deal with it fir the survival of the species (religion).

This is why I mentioned the various, mysterious 'higher gods' in my above post. Some people view agnosticism as a kind of equivocating, unsure, 'ooh I don't know' middle road between theism and atheism.

This is not my agnosticism. I am comfortable with the mystery. You could say, 'the mystery is my religion'. I don't know, and that's great!

I feel incredibly human and integrated. I can honestly speak to anyone about their religious belief with an open heart, just as I can speak to those with no belief with the same openness.

My God is humanity. I have a warm, calm, benevolent feeling knowing that we are all bound together as part of this wonderful mystery called life. I am happy to experience it without dread, but with a childlike curiosity.

Agnosticism to me is solid, it's real, it's the choice. It isn't in between two 'proper choices', it stands alone, wise, benevolent and honest.

That's my perspective. Now, I'm not suggesting that you have to go through an existential crisis! However, you may have to reorient your experience of the divine.

For me it's oriented towards people - a full and unfettered experience of agape.

P.S. I mean 'divine' as in something like, 'a thing of cosmic importance and value'. It might have something to do with a God, but it doesn't matter.

Very similar to my story! I'm in a hurry, but just to show you what I mean:

I was diagnosed with DSPD at age 18. The social isolation from being awake when everyone else was sleeping, was really bad for my anxiety prone, overthinking mind. I had an anxiety attack (so far the only one I've had) at one point, and I remember being almost paralyzed trying to force my hands together and say the words "help me God", and then it stopped. I did experienced the same as you, getting this warm "Christmasy" feeling of love when I got in my mother's arms and told her what happened. (I remember thinking it was odd she wasn't really showing that she was on the same page as me). Existential questions were those I feared the most, because I knew I wouldn't be able to choose what to believe. Eventually, the fear of being "willingly unknowing" got bigger than the fear of God not existing. Learning about DMT was really helpful in the process too.
 
To think that man could be so arrogant as to say what is and what isn't... Idk. We know nothing. I wish I could still believe though.

You make a strong case for agnosticism here. :) Do you mean that you feel anguish at the idea of being agnostic?

I am agnostic, personally. Facing up to the unknown in that way can be distressing, I think, because we have as it were no ready-made explanation about being to go to; but I'm also convinced that it is the key to true freedom.
 
I was raised a Christian. Not in the American sense, you understand, but in the British. This means that everyone is just assumed to believe in God, and the teachings of Christ, and the only services you might attend are various rites of passage (usually just funerals to be honest). Nobody has any doctrinal knowledge or really an opinion on these matters. It might be more accurate to say that a lot of British Christians are really just theists with a Christian cultural baggage.

While not familiar with the British version I am familiar with two other varieties (one European and one American) and the same could be said, broadly, about both. And it is bizarrely similar once one abstracts away from the finer details. Imagine my surprise when getting to know friends from other cultures (not Christian) who also pointed to such a "theists with baggage" reality. In hindsight this started me wondering really seriously about what is happening here, there, and elsewhere.

Hopefully not speaking for @Ren here but I agree with the comment in the sense that agnosticism represents a state of open-mindedness which allows for the formulation of new interpretations of reality which better fit what we see and experience where the old and agreed upon ones may not.
 
I wrote some stuff some years ago which you might want to check out:
===============
Check out so called NDE experiences (Near Death Experiences):
https://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html
for example
*"My descent into death" by Howard Storm:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0385513763/?tag=infjs-20
and check out his video testimony on youtube.
Read Lee Strobels "the case for a creator" or watch the movie about the book here:
If you want to learn something about the afterlife, read books by
*Raymond A. Moody
http://www.amazon.com/dp/006242890X/?tag=infjs-20
*Gerda Johst ("the uncut jewel") http://www.buchbeschreibungen.com/english/gjb.php , might be hard to get though
*http://www.amazon.com/dp/1604591277/?tag=infjs-20
*Robert James Lees

This book here is also important:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1461019540/?tag=infjs-20 (or http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/)

Please note that 99,9999% of all "modern" esoteric books are complete garbage (they are just written to make money). The really valuable books are either old (long before the "esoteric boom") or from special authors not widely known!

I personally (Medizinmann99) can highly recommend praying the rosary each day - from my experience I can by now even say that every day I spend without the rosary is a "lost day"!

Check out this video "Dying Man Records his Final Words About God":
==========================

This is copied from my "good health tips", which you might want to check out as well:
http://tinyurl.com/verygoodhealthtips
 
While not familiar with the British version I am familiar with two other varieties (one European and one American) and the same could be said, broadly, about both. And it is bizarrely similar once one abstracts away from the finer details.

I think his description of the British version sounds very similar to the Scandinavian version (Norway, Sweden, Denmark). To paint an image: The American version of Christianity would probably be considered deeply religious here, and the Scandinavian version would probably not even be considered Christian in America.
 
I wrote some stuff some years ago which you might want to check out:
===============
Check out so called NDE experiences (Near Death Experiences):
https://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html
for example
*"My descent into death" by Howard Storm:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0385513763/?tag=infjs-20
and check out his video testimony on youtube.
Read Lee Strobels "the case for a creator" or watch the movie about the book here:
If you want to learn something about the afterlife, read books by
*Raymond A. Moody
http://www.amazon.com/dp/006242890X/?tag=infjs-20
*Gerda Johst ("the uncut jewel") http://www.buchbeschreibungen.com/english/gjb.php , might be hard to get though
*http://www.amazon.com/dp/1604591277/?tag=infjs-20
*Robert James Lees

This book here is also important:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1461019540/?tag=infjs-20 (or http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/)

Please note that 99,9999% of all "modern" esoteric books are complete garbage (they are just written to make money). The really valuable books are either old (long before the "esoteric boom") or from special authors not widely known!

I personally (Medizinmann99) can highly recommend praying the rosary each day - from my experience I can by now even say that every day I spend without the rosary is a "lost day"!

Check out this video "Dying Man Records his Final Words About God":
==========================

This is copied from my "good health tips", which you might want to check out as well:
http://tinyurl.com/verygoodhealthtips


 
You make a strong case for agnosticism here. :) Do you mean that you feel anguish at the idea of being agnostic?

I am agnostic, personally. Facing up to the unknown in that way can be distressing, I think, because we have as it were no ready-made explanation about being to go to; but I'm also convinced that it is the key to true freedom.
Yeah, I think I do feel anguish about it because of how I was raised, I'm scared of a "vengeful" God and His wrath. Even though I know that it's highly unlikely, I won't truly know until I am dead, and by then it will be too late. So whatever decision I come to requires faith. Even if I choose to not make "the decision" like @Deleted member 16771 talked about, and stay with my current "beliefs" (in quotations bc their not really beliefs if I don't fully believe them) That's scary.

Thanks so much for your input. <3
 
I will reply to the people after @Ren later I have a busy day today! Thanks everyone for your input it means a lot!
 
Yeah, I think I do feel anguish about it because of how I was raised, I'm scared of a "vengeful" God and His wrath. Even though I know that it's highly unlikely, I won't truly know until I am dead, and by then it will be too late. So whatever decision I come to requires faith. Even if I choose to not make "the decision" like @Deleted member 16771 talked about, and stay with my current "beliefs" (in quotations bc their not really beliefs if I don't fully believe them) That's scary.

Thanks so much for your input. <3

You are incredibly brave, April!!! I think if you overcome the first barrier of fear, you will gradually allow yourself to explore what God really is as a biological, psychological and/or social phenomenon. Fear kept me from opening up to see things differently, and I wasn't even really raised to believe in the Bible. I don't think I would have had the same courage that you have, if I was raised to believe in Hell and eternal suffering.

I don't believe in God, but I do still knock on wood though, just in case :sweatsmile:
 

Back when I was a Christian I used to cry out to God and beg for Him to bestow upon me the love for Him that I felt for other people.

I would listen to this song on repeat, and talk to God. I knew He wanted me to feel that way about Him, and I begged Him to help me get there. But I just couldn't put Him above everything and everyone.

"You are my everything, and I will adore you" Those lyrics hurt especially bad because God wasn't my everything. I felt guilty about it, I prayed, I read my Bible, and practiced what I thought was right. But sometimes, in the back of my mind, when I prayed, I felt like I was talking to nobody. That little prick of a thought eventually won over, and now I have no idea what I believe. To think that man could be so arrogant as to say what is and what isn't... Idk. We know nothing. I wish I could still believe though.

We sang this in our church a few times.
Sometimes I think it is easier for less intelligent people to believe. The smarter one is, the more they think, and over think and then they end up tied up in a knot and not knowing what to believe.
 
At the age of 16 I became a born again Christian and started to study the Bible. I read about 80% of it and really couldn’t find a particular God. What I found was a collection of stories that were seemingly irrational although I tried to deny that fact, I would rationalize “well that’s just Gods way” A very simple answer to a complicated question. I enjoyed my time as a born again believer however it simply wasn’t enough for me to stay. I witnessed hypocrisy, betrayal and pretty much every flaw you could think of. Which I get we’re all human but the question is why do I need this? If it would state in biblical text “Why, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” In my mind being handed the answers to all your woe’s is not the road to personal salvation/enlightenment.

I think my biggest issue in this particular chapter of my life was the dishonesty of the church as a whole. I witnessed Christianity as a shroud to cover one’s own enlightenment and to keep people from realizing existentialism. In my mind this would be the gateway to understanding individuality. So therefore I view it as being dishonest with yourself and those that surround you. How can truth reign if it begins under the veil of a lie? This is the inherent flaw that I witnessed.

After leaving the church to start a new journey I found myself a blank slate once again, ready to be sculpted. To this point I believe we always find the answers we seek. We just have to be honest with ourselves and shake our fear of death. Something I’ve found to be a truth is the illusion of fear, it’s just negative imagination. I also find this tool is utilized by way too many organization as a mechanism of control. I guess the point here is if you keep people in fear you can keep them from realizing the self and collective consciousness, if you can do that you can exploit them. I am not sure if this is the intent or if it’s something unconsciously driven, that’s a bigger question that’s fragmented in my mind.


News = Fear

Religions = Fear

Governments = Fear


Today I walk the earth not knowing the ultimate truth of consciousness. However like an antenna I project my consciousness to the infinite cosmos and ask questions. I let it go and I wait for inspiration to come back to me. I don’t try anymore and I have found that less is actually more it’s a paradox in my reality.

FearisALiar.webp
 
While not familiar with the British version I am familiar with two other varieties (one European and one American) and the same could be said, broadly, about both. And it is bizarrely similar once one abstracts away from the finer details. Imagine my surprise when getting to know friends from other cultures (not Christian) who also pointed to such a "theists with baggage" reality. In hindsight this started me wondering really seriously about what is happening here, there, and elsewhere.

Hopefully not speaking for @Ren here but I agree with the comment in the sense that agnosticism represents a state of open-mindedness which allows for the formulation of new interpretations of reality which better fit what we see and experience where the old and agreed upon ones may not.
I agree that it would be a great fit, but it's like having 4567543 choices, and then also the possibility that it is none of those choices. It's a bit overwhelming. Lol I can't make myself believe anything a hundred percent! I wish I could lol.
 
I wrote some stuff some years ago which you might want to check out:
===============
Check out so called NDE experiences (Near Death Experiences):
https://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html
for example
*"My descent into death" by Howard Storm:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0385513763/?tag=infjs-20
and check out his video testimony on youtube.
Read Lee Strobels "the case for a creator" or watch the movie about the book here:
If you want to learn something about the afterlife, read books by
*Raymond A. Moody
http://www.amazon.com/dp/006242890X/?tag=infjs-20
*Gerda Johst ("the uncut jewel") http://www.buchbeschreibungen.com/english/gjb.php , might be hard to get though
*http://www.amazon.com/dp/1604591277/?tag=infjs-20
*Robert James Lees

This book here is also important:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1461019540/?tag=infjs-20 (or http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/)

Please note that 99,9999% of all "modern" esoteric books are complete garbage (they are just written to make money). The really valuable books are either old (long before the "esoteric boom") or from special authors not widely known!

I personally (Medizinmann99) can highly recommend praying the rosary each day - from my experience I can by now even say that every day I spend without the rosary is a "lost day"!

Check out this video "Dying Man Records his Final Words About God":
==========================

This is copied from my "good health tips", which you might want to check out as well:
http://tinyurl.com/verygoodhealthtips
Thanks I've browsed the NDE website, pretty fascinating! I'll check out those other things too when I get time lol.
 
You are incredibly brave, April!!! I think if you overcome the first barrier of fear, you will gradually allow yourself to explore what God really is as a biological, psychological and/or social phenomenon. Fear kept me from opening up to see things differently, and I wasn't even really raised to believe in the Bible. I don't think I would have had the same courage that you have, if I was raised to believe in Hell and eternal suffering.

I don't believe in God, but I do still knock on wood though, just in case :sweatsmile:
Thank you. How sweet. :)
 
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