If the government's healthcare insurance is so good...

[Shai Gar]

Your arguments are funny... Anyway, I'm going to work, on the way I'll enjoy the knowledge that if I'm knocked off my bike, I'll be covered under Australia's Universal Healthcare system.

 

[mallory knox]

Right. 80% of the countries call themselves/are considered capitalist.

Pure free market doesn't exist, as pure democracy doesn't exist, as hardly any others 100% genuine pure things.

so?

Is that what you're trying to be, 100% free market?

Even tho, as far as I know, capitalism and free market are not necessarily the same thing.

Besides even if you are closer to pure free market than anyone else, so what? How does the average american benefit from that other than the feeling in the heart of PRIDE for the "freedom"?

Certainly that feeling will vanish when you're sick and poor and there's no one out there for you, because everyone is too "free market" to help you out?

I don't believe anyone answered when I questioned, what should be a goverments priorities?

 

[Satya]

Right. 80% of the countries call themselves/are considered capitalist.

I would say a higher percentage than that are.

Besides even if you are closer to pure free market than anyone else, so what? How does the average american benefit from that other than the feeling in the heart of PRIDE for the "freedom"?

Despite having a mixed economy, the United States is undoubtedly the freest market in the world. But that just means there is low union power, no mandatory vacation, its easy to fire people, and the opportunity for business growth is high. Freer markets are generally better for employers than employees.

Certainly that feeling will vanish when you're sick and poor and there's no one out there for you, because everyone is too "free market" to help you out?

Many people in the United States feel that is perfectly acceptable.

I don't believe anyone answered when I questioned, what should be a goverments priorities?

Fortunately for us, our government's priorities were outlined very clearly in the preamble of our Constitution.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution#cite_note-0 promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

So the priorities of our government are...

Improving the union
Establishing justice
Insuring domestic tranquility
Promoting general welfare
Securing liberty

 

[BenW]

Why do you have to think everything is about you?

I never said that I should be the only person who shouldn't be taxed.
I don't believe in taxation, for anyone.

You're a very closeminded person.

"I oppose taxation" - what are you? A millionaire?

Nope, I fit squarely into the lower class.
In fact, I'm probably much worse off than you are.
And I firmly believe I have a lot to gain from a free market system.

because apart from that, no one can afford to take care of their own security and building their own roads, and making their own schools.

Sure they can.
And aside from privatization bringing down costs in many industries, it's not like charity would suddenly cease to exist; I believe it would be even more prevalent.

Money is mine mine mine? It's that individualism that will lead to the country's ruin.

Actually, that individualism made America an industrial megapower...
But hey, lets airbrush over history.

 

[mallory knox]

I wouldn't wanna be an industrial megapower at the cost of my own people and the enviroment. Some greed doesn't pay off. It won't be that difficult to become that megapower considering all that's being said above: low union power, no mandatory vacation, no public health care, no efforts in distributing wealth equally, no morals against exploring workers in other countries or firing your own citizens, etc.

It would be pretty easy for anyone to grow that way - but what would be the point?

So many years you've been that mega industrial power, the richest nation in the world, but what has your own people gained from that? A minority calls the shots and the majority as individuals are unprotected in every sense.

As for the goverments priorities:

Improving the union
Establishing justice
Insuring domestic tranquility
Promoting general welfare
Securing liberty

Letting tax payers lose their homes, or their life savings or die or be ill because they can't afford medical care goes against all that.

What is more important to a human being than life itself and health?

Well, that should be the first priority. Human lives are more important than profit - and if people don't think so I can't begin to express how twisted that is.

 

[mallory knox]

by the way, i clearly understood that you don't think anyone should be taxed - no matter insane that is.
i was refering to something else.

As for capitalism, once again, you guys are not understanding that I'm saying that you have your own definition of it - by that you can say things like countries are not 100% capitalist. Most of the world has a different definition of it. So that's just it.

 

[Billy]

So many years you've been that mega industrial power, the richest nation in the world, but what has your own people gained from that?

Are you serious? We have more opportunity than any other developed nation, you cans till come here with nothing and if you hustle it you can become a millionaire. not to mention Americans enjoy one of the highest standards of living in the world, we are more wealthy per capita than the majority of the rest of earths population. That's what we gained. And as soon as we socialize ands "re-distribute" wealth like you seem to think we should that goes away and we become another low end European style nation with all the money and power in the political class hands and everyone else is poor and miserable with no chances or opportunities to make a better living.

What is more important to a human being than life itself and health?

Freedom and personal liberty. I would choose that over helping everyone in a heart beat.

 

[Shai Gar]

Washington DC has one of the highest murder rates in the country, and there are bums sleeping in doorways, in one of the most powerful cities in the world.

Yeah, great standard of living.

 

[Satya]

We have more opportunity than any other developed nation, you cans till come here with nothing and if you hustle it you can become a millionaire.

I highly recommended Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers to dispel that common myth. Yes, we have opportunity, we also have lottery tickets, and both offer about the same chance for someone going from nothing to millions in this country. That is simply the statistical reality.

Freedom and personal liberty. I would choose that over helping everyone in a heart beat.

What do those values mean to you? Liberty simply means freedom to choose. If the American public chooses universal health care, who are you to take away that freedom?

 

[BenW]

...Liberty simply means freedom to choose. If the American public chooses universal health care, who are you to take away that freedom?

That's a rather loaded definition you managed to come up with.

Liberty is a concept of political philosophy and identifies the condition in which an individual has the right to act according to his or her own will.

Individualist and classical liberal conceptions of liberty relate to the freedom of the individual from outside compulsion or coercion.

 

[goldfinch]

Washington DC has one of the highest murder rates in the country, and there are bums sleeping in doorways, in one of the most powerful cities in the world.

Yeah, great standard of living.

I wouldn't use the word bums, personally. We do have many homeless people in DC though.

 

[mallory knox]

Are you serious? We have more opportunity than any other developed nation, you cans till come here with nothing and if you hustle it you can become a millionaire. not to mention Americans enjoy one of the highest standards of living in the world, we are more wealthy per capita than the majority of the rest of earths population. That's what we gained. And as soon as we socialize ands "re-distribute" wealth like you seem to think we should that goes away and we become another low end European style nation with all the money and power in the political class hands and everyone else is poor and miserable with no chances or opportunities to make a better living.


Freedom and personal liberty. I would choose that over helping everyone in a heart beat.

you haven't travelled much have you?

ascending socially is possible in many many places.

and americans do not enjoy the highest standarts of living, is that supposed to be a joke?

 

[BenW]

I wouldn't wanna be an industrial megapower at the cost of my own people and the enviroment. Some greed doesn't pay off. It won't be that difficult to become that megapower considering all that's being said above: low union power, no mandatory vacation, no public health care, no efforts in distributing wealth equally, no morals against exploring workers in other countries or firing your own citizens, etc.

Union power is completely independent of the government; employers choose to recognize and negotiate with unions on their own free will.

The US currently has no federal mandatory vacation law, and I'm pretty sure most states don't, either.

Morals against outsourcing are totally subjective.
Outsourcing makes products much cheaper, which is what American consumers DEMAND.
If the finger is to be pointed at anyone for outsourcing of American jobs, it is to be pointed at American consumers and employees themselves, as well as the legislation on minimum wages.

These three things cannot be mutually inclusive; high wages, plentiful jobs, low prices on goods.

It would be pretty easy for anyone to grow that way - but what would be the point?

Freedom, and a better economy.

So many years you've been that mega industrial power, the richest nation in the world, but what has your own people gained from that? A minority calls the shots and the majority as individuals are unprotected in every sense.

We have one of the highest qualities of life in the world.

As for the goverments priorities:

Improving the union
Establishing justice
Insuring domestic tranquility
Promoting general welfare
Securing liberty

Letting tax payers lose their homes, or their life savings or die or be ill because they can't afford medical care goes against all that.

Wrong.
As the saying goes, "The right to fail is just as important as the opportunity to succeed."

What is more important to a human being than life itself and health?

Like Billy said, freedom/liberty.

Well, that should be the first priority. Human lives are more important than profit - and if people don't think so I can't begin to express how twisted that is.

There are far more important morals than safety.
Even if you could prove to me that unrestricted gun ownership and concealed carry would result in more gun related deaths, I would still be in favor of it, because while it may cause more people to die, it will certainly cause people to freer.

As for capitalism, once again, you guys are not understanding that I'm saying that you have your own definition of it - by that you can say things like countries are not 100% capitalist. Most of the world has a different definition of it. So that's just it.

There is only one definition of capitalism.
No country on Earth is 100% capitalist.
The US just happens to be the closest.

 

[Shai Gar]

ascending socially is actually easier in australia than america.

 

[mallory knox]

I can't multiquote because I am not dorky enough but anyway.

Most of the world has mandatory paid vacations. Usually 4 or 5 weeks a year.

Outsourcing also takes away your jobs and perpetuate abuse against poor workers. Minimum wage is a protective measure against abuse. The idea that americans get paid high wages is absurd. The dollar isn't even that powerful really.

A better economy by "freedom" is a mistaken concept. As well as there is rapid growth, there are moments of quick intense collapse - like now. In many countries more people kept their jobs because it would cost the companies a lot of money to fire them.

The highest quality of life (ranking):

1

Ireland 8.333 2

Switzerland 8.068 3

Norway 8.051 4

Luxembourg 8.015 5

Sweden 7.937 6

Australia 7.925 7

Iceland 7.911 8

Italy 7.810 9

Denmark 7.797 10

Spain 7.727
If you think you have a lot of freedom and there is only your definition of everything, then once again I must conclude you haven't travelled much outside the US. Since most americans don't ever go abroad, it's easier to make them believe anything.

 

[mallory knox]

But once again I am talking to someone who thinks the "right" of carrying a gun is more important than the right to have your life saved. Pointless.

Someone who thinks there is real freedom in a land where facts are manipulated and few people own all the press.

 

[Faye]

First of all, hybrid economy = mixed economy. Sorry about that.

So basically the only capitalist country in the world is the US? That, of course, according to US definitions?

All I'm saying is that we don't even have the definition of hybrid economy, the rest of the world doesn't even consider that. Either countries are capitalist democracies or socialist dictatorships.

I'm saying you made that shit up and it's only considered a concept in your territory.

Probably to say "hey all the other economies are hybrid, we're the closest thing to capitalism and democracy and freedom as you can get, the others are all contaminated with bits of socialism"? LOL.

So when you get denied healthcare you are ILL and HAPPY because you're FREE in a democratic country that is not contaminated with the virus of socialist things - like - saving human lives.

And when I said profit shouldn't be the issue when it comes to human lives, you know what I meant.

No, I never said the U.S. is the only capitalist country. Where are you getting this? About 95% of the countries in the world are capitalist.

No, you're not either a capitalist democracy or a socialist dictatorship. China is a capitalist dictatorship, and Venezuela is arguably a socialist democracy, though they are making steps to get rid of the democracy part.

Just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Most Americans didn't know what the term blue-dog democrat meant until recently, and I'm sure many still don't. You would only know the term if you studied American politics. Mixed economies is similar.

No, people who view government regulation as negative would complain that the U.S. is far too regulated as well. The U.S. has a mixed economy, but it is relatively less regulated that other capitalist economies.

When I get denied healthcare, I will be pissed off because I'm in favor of socialism. Not Moore pinko socialism or Obama "socialism" but real socialism. Though I'd be happy with a more mixed economy as well.

Yes, I understood your point. I was just stating that here in the United States profit is an issue when it comes to human lives. Profit wins and most people don't have much of a voice. You vote with your dollar, and most people don't have many dollars to vote with.

Wait. I meant "hybrid economy" and "socialized healthcare" are terms you only hear in America. How do I know that? I have lived in a few different countries. Nobody uses those terms.

What do you mean STEAL someone money to pay for what?

SORRY?

Like I have said, the term socialized health care is a scare tactic.

let

 

[mallory knox]

I am not pro-socialism, just to clarify.

I just think if we're going to play a game the minimum care for human life would be required to make that game fair.

I don't even know why you're quoting my posts when other people are posting against what you believe in and I'm not talking about your posts? For God's sake, look at billy's post.

I didn't say ascending socially is likely anywhere.

 

[Tamagochi]

Are you serious? We have more opportunity than any other developed nation, you cans till come here with nothing and if you hustle it you can become a millionaire. not to mention Americans enjoy one of the highest standards of living in the world, we are more wealthy per capita than the majority of the rest of earths population. That's what we gained.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I've traveled the world and your country did not impress me. There are big opportunities anywhere you go if you just look for them. As for the standard of living... free public healthcare is part of it and you have none. Income per person is higher in Scandinavia and most of western european countries. The number of bums I saw on the streets of US cities was comparable to some third-world countries.

Even the concepts of personal freedom and justice are getting worse. According to your Patriot Act the government can arrest and strip of their constitutional rights anyone they please. And a person gets fined a million dollars just for downloading 24 songs. That does not happen in a majority of a developed world.

These are the facts. Yet I do admire American people and their great achievements Just don't be arrogant.

Freedom and personal liberty. I would choose that over helping everyone in a heart beat.

Wouldn't you agree that having a healthy body increases your freedom? While having to work your ass off to pay the medical bills decreases it?

 

[mallory knox]

I love Tamagochi.

Yes it's sad that the lack of travelling can lead people to believe things.

If you could save on your medical bills, perhaps you could travel.

The majority of americans doesn't even have a passport. sad.