I'm starting to think I might be an ENFJ

Idea for Von's next thread..... type AVATAR characters. As I'm really curious on that one have been thinking on it.

As for this thread. I don't care we are still claiming von he is one of the coolest people here so that means we keep him. No take backs. :m172:
 
Von Hase said:
Hehe, that made me snarf.



That's actually pretty dead on sometimes. I try to be as warm and affable to everyone as I can, and had the good fortune of a Sifu who taught me to choose kindness over aggression whenever possible. The reflexes you're describing are definitely there.

If my base reflexes are those of an ENFJ, then I've developed a lot of INFJ functions and capacities. My Ni is very strong and my S functions seem to be my weakest. But, the opposite is true.

If my base reflexes are those of an INFJ, then I've developed a lot of ENFJ functions and capacities. My Fe is very strong and my Se is not too shabby.

Of the people I know in real life, I have a handful of ENFJs and a couple of INFJs to compare myself to. I can definitely see similarities and traits of from all of them in myself, which makes sense considering my various test results. Obviously, it is difficult to objectively 'see' myself, but I'm starting to see what you mean about the ENFJ.

Looking back to childhood, I seem to remember the following growth of functions...

Ages 3-5: Freely talked to strangers, so long as I got a good vibe from them, and was generally very positive and tried very hard to be a good kid. (Fe with Ni).
Ages 5-7: Was put into Kung Fu class by my father, and did very well. Also developed uncharacteristic artistic talent for illustrating. (Ni with Se)
Ages 7-10: Did very well in school, so long as the subjects allowed for reasoning, and not rote memory. (Fe, and Se with Ti).
Ages 8-11: I went through a phase where I became the unpopular kid, and suddenly began to have a shift of functions. I had dreams that happen with alarming frequency and clarity, that always focused on people. (Ni with Fe).
From there, because my father worked for the government (not nearly in as cool a way as it sounds), we moved around alot. I attented 14 schools. At some schools, I was welcomed and quickly became popular (and developed more of my ENFJ functions). At other schools I could never get past being an outsider (and developed my INFJ functions).

I remember developing my Se as I grew up, learning to be tougher and more self defendable, focused on my surroundings as they really are.

I also remember not needing to know how things work until I was older than that, and I distinctly remember the night when that changed in my 20s, where I read an intrsuction manual for the first time in my life. Three hours later, I understood it, and slowly began to move on to others. While my T functions seemed fairly solid as a kid, I think it was my Fe that was actually carrying my ability to reason, and I didn't start on truly developing Ti until later, and Te until very recently.

I can see how I became a hybrid of the two by the time I was an adult, but I am starting to see the ENFJ basis, and development track. My need to 'get it right' does seem to surpass the standard INFJ mode of thinking.

I think you are right. My reflexive function order is ENFJ, but I've developed a lot of functions over my many years, which has given me the ability to take on type modes to adapt to situations. I'm fluent with INFJ when I need it, do a convincing ENFP impersonation, can for brief periods step into INFP mode to recalibrate myself, and have recently begun to practice INTJ and ENTJ roles. I suppose somewhere in all of that is an INTP capacity, since they try to do all of those things inherently, hehe.

I'm going to think on this a while and make sure it's right... and enforce the ENFJ stereotype.

:m146:
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:D See? You should just listen to my instincts. I may be flopping through a lot of types myself, but regardless of which one I end up with, I have a mean Ni.

I'll let you reconfirm a few more times though -- if you are ENFJ, you'll probably still question yourself a lot
 
gloomy-optimist said:
:D See? You should just listen to my instincts. I may be flopping through a lot of types myself, but regardless of which one I end up with, I have a mean Ni.

I'll let you reconfirm a few more times though -- if you are ENFJ, you'll probably still question yourself a lot
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Agreed. And on the subject of flip flopping, I think I may have just realized that I am trying to stay on the fence, and each of my leanings one way or the other are me trying not to lose my balance.

I think I have come to concise descriptions of my issue.

My Ni and Fe are equally strong.

I've yet to take a test that didn't pin these functions within statistical margin of error for equality, and they fluctuate regularly. Sometimes Ni is ahead by a nose. Sometimes it's Fe. Often times they're literally tied. They are both extremely strong. When I read about these functions, I have a very hard time deciding which one I lead with, or originally have led with, and the only honest answer I can give is "It depends on the situation." Very simply, I perceive and reason with both of them, using whichever seems to be the most appropriate for the situation, and as best as I can remember, always have.

I know INFJs and ENFJs, and I'm very much in the middle of them.

I am much more like an ENFJ than my INFJ friends. The difference is obvious when I am around them. However, I am much more like an INFJ than my ENFJ friends, and the difference is equally obvious when I am around them. However, I have my moments where I am very much like INFJs or ENFJs, depending on how extreme I've gone with my mode of thinking. When I introvert deeply, I become a textbook INFJ. When I extrovert strongly, I become a textbook ENFJ.

My Ti and Se are equally strong.

I have the same ratio of equality with these two functions as well. My overall T (Ti + Te) is stronger than my overall S (Se + Si) , but that is because I don't favor people with strong Si, but I do favor my NTJs, who've helped me develop my Te quite a bit (And I am very thankful for it).


I understand that these statements solve nothing with respect to narrowing down a single type, but it ennunciates my pondery. I am really starting to think I simply am an ambiverted NFJ, and I can play the role of either INFJ or ENFJ depending on the situation, and have always been able to do so. I suppose this is my Fe wanting to nail down the correct social role, and my Ni insiting that there isn't one from the options offered. Some people simply aren't going to fit into any of the 16 Jungian types. It seems I am one of them, and yet at the same time I am proving the validity of the theory by being textbook to both type descriptions at the same time.

It looks as if I'm simply a hybrid of two related types.
 
Hell, that works for me. I honestly think that, after a point, MBTI fails to really fit accurately in every facet. I've been acting very ENFJ-ish myself with living in a dorm and being friends with an ENFJ; I'm expecting to someday be in the same boat you're in myself. And I expect that's inevitable for almost everyone after they begin really developing a wide variety of their functions.

I think you should be more content with this. It shows that you are more rounded than anything :)
 
Just go with your gut.
 
As an aside... since this thread has really turned into more of a journey of my self study and validation of MBTI type than about whether or not I am an eNFJ... Let's call it the journey of an alleged eNFJ...



I just went to a forum for INFPs, which was highly populated by INFPs and a fair chunk of ENFPs.

:m035:

Let me just say for the record, that when I first encountered the Myers Briggs test, it typed me as an INFP. Granted, it was by a very small percentage on the I and P, but that was where I started this process. From there I tested ENFP, and when I read the description, it seemed close enough, but not quite right. The MBTI pegged my NF status very clearly, but the I/E as well as the J/P axis fluctuated slightly back and forth over the lines depending on my mood. So I began to research this Jungian personality type theory for myself.

I quickly realized that I am an NFJ type, and from there it became a question of ENFJ or INFJ. I'm still debating this issue internally (out loud) on this thread, but let me say for the record after having been to the INFP forums...

I am NOT an NFP.

Wow.

I am so sincerely and emphatically not an NFP.

I had no idea how wrong that original assessment was for me until I read some of the posts and got a clear sense of the vibe of these people.

Wow.

Just wow.

I don't mean to be rude, but I can't begin to grasp how people can think like that on purpose.

This might be another truly telling litmus with respect to my INFJ / ENFJ quandery. INFPs are the exact opposites of ENFJs, cognitively. I personally know a few INFPs, and I have to say that this couldn't be more true. We are constantly in a state of "You're doing it wrong!" with our timing never able to synchronize. It's downright odd. The worst part is, I love these people to death, but sometimes I think that 'death' is the perfect word to use. We can frustrate each other like no one else can.

I don't have the same almost hypnotic attraction to ENFPs. I like them, especially if I can have them in small doses, but it's not the same as the energy between me and INFPs. This really does lend itself to the theory that opposites attract.

I am Fe, they are Fi. We both feel first, but we feel in reverse and throw each other off.

From there I go to Ni to try to zero in on what just caused the (often heated) schism because that wasn't my intention, but they go to Ne and begin to throw possibilities (aka accusations) for why their feelings are hurt at me like suppressive fire.

Now nothing makes sense so I step into the moment as it is with Se and turn my presence up to support my Fe, and they drop into Si and defend their Fi with how things are supposed to be based on traditions (which is ironic because most of the arguments start with how I offended them with my sense of social roles) that they understand.

Lastly, I try to use Ti to explain how everything is working to defuse the argument because my Fe wants everyone to get along, but they only care how the argument relates (Te) to their feelings (Fi).

Yeah, this is really interesting.

Heh, and to think, I once tested as an INFP. That MBTI sure is a busted tool.
 
Umm, MTBI tests can't tell you who you are. It's a proximity test, and there's a good chance of falling in between two chairs.

I know you find it interesting and love to place people in little boxes, but it's not always that simple.

Still considering the circumstances, MTBI is a very good test and hardly broken.
 
I don't think MBTI was ever meant to be a boxing tool...it's never meant to limit a person. Just help describe them. After a point...well, there's really only so much it can do.

I might have to check out the INFP forums after that post, Von Hase. I don't really think I'm INFP, but I do feel as if I'm becoming more and more like one -- it would be really interesting :D
 
Sithious said:
Umm, MTBI tests can't tell you who you are. It's a proximity test, and there's a good chance of falling in between two chairs.

I know you find it interesting and love to place people in little boxes, but it's not always that simple.

Still considering the circumstances, MTBI is a very good test and hardly broken.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the simplest truth is that I've fallen between the chairs with respect to the MBTI. Good call. I would assume that a small number of people do as well.

Most people who mistype simply got assigned the wrong chair, but haven't fallen between them. All they have to do is a little research to find the right chair and it will fit.

The percentage of people that get assigned the chair next to the one they should be sitting in is high enough for me to consider the MBTI test malfunctioning.
 
Blind Bandit said:
Idea for Von's next thread..... type AVATAR characters. As I'm really curious on that one have been thinking on it.

As for this thread. I don't care we are still claiming von he is one of the coolest people here so that means we keep him. No take backs. :m172:
Click to expand...

You should check here! I think Avatar was actually mentioned in the list...
 
The comment "You're whatever Oprah is" sparked a train of thought.

This is one of those points that are so obvious, they're easily overlooked.

Introverted thought does not equate to introverted social behavior.

Often these two cases are synonymous, but not always. In the case of those types that have extroverted judging functions as secondaries, they may appear extremely extroverted because their outward mode is focused on affecting the world around them. You all know the type - the person who is lost in their own head but can't shut up.

Oprah clearly thinks very internally first, then externally. Most people would classify her as an ENFJ due to her outgoing gregarious and humanitarian fame. However, she's clearly an INFJ. She thinks with Ni first, seeking clarity and spiritual truth. THEN she seeks to share her findings with others, attempting to make the world a better place (Fe). However, she also thinks through the workings of her findings, and wants to use her tertiary Ti to back up and validate her explanations. Her Se is her last function, as witnessed by her issues with dieting and working out, as well as a strong aversion to violence and physical aggression. Although Oprah has a very outward focus (a strong Fe), her thought process order is very clearly Ni, Fe, Ti, Se. She's one of the 'chatty INFJs', most characterized by the fact that once you get them talking about something their Ni has been untangling, you can't get them to stop. They're suddenly a deluge of enthusiasm and interest. Switch to something they're not interested in, and you suddenly have someone who is half listening.

In contrast, I actually know a few 'quiet ENFJs'. Their process order is clearly Fe (emotions based on others) first, backed up by Ni (an ability to intuitively key in on the needs of others), supported by Se (a drive to make the needs of others manifest in the real world, even by force if need be), and finally use Ti to figure out why it didn't work when they fail. Part of their beliefs about caring for others includes letting others do the talking, and they are therefore 'quiet'. Sometimes they are even shy, because their Fe puts so much emphasis on others that they are afraid to interrupt. These are the opposites of the chatty INFJs. The quiet ENFJs are the ones who will listen with great interest to whatever you are talking about, because you are interested in it and they care about you. They use their Ni to untangle whatever is a concern for you, but don't take it personal because unlike the chatty INFJ, the quiet ENFJ is doing this for everyone. The INFJ focuses on small groups and one on one interactions, while the ENFJ focuses on the overall group and the big picture morally and socially.

And THAT brings me to the crux of my point.

Fe is the big picture of how everyone and everything relates emotionally and philosophically. However, Fe does not under any circumstances imply the values upon which it operates. Some people feel that the best way to serve others is to be quiet and unobtrusive. These are the shy Fe's. Others feel that the best way to serve the greater good is to take a stand and push others. These are the gregarious persuader Fe's. Both can be found in the INFJs and ENFJs. They're more common in their respective groups, but there is no rule about Fe and Ni interaction requiring either of these to be the case. The values that a person has creates the flavor of Fe, which in turn creates the type of INFJ or ENFJ a person is. Depending on the value system, these types can drastically appear to overlap. The discerning factor is simply in the preference order of their cognitive functions, which can be detected by paying close attention to the obvious, yet subtle, cues.

The more I consider this possibility, combined with the theory on stress causing a shift to cognitive function preference and by proxy dictating the pace of lesser function development, as well as the notion of how your dominant function is the last to shut down when tired, and even the connection between intuition dominance and cingulate system disorders (ADD, Aspberger's, Autism, etc.), the more I am coming back to the notion that I am in fact at my core an INFJ function preference mind.

... like Oprah.

:m146:
 
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Today's episode includes me leaning back to the INFJ side of the fence.

I realized that I have many more mannerisms and traits in common with my INFJ and INTJ friends than I do my ENFJ friends.

I am an Ni dominant, despite considering otherwise due to my well developed Fe. I still Ni 'zone out' reflexively. I still have a lot of trouble in big groups, and am uncomfortable around unfamiliar groups of people. My Ti has precedence over my Se. As much as I have tried to claim fence stratling status, and as much as I'd rather be an ENFJ, because I admire them and see parts of myself, especially my potential in them, I believe I am going to have to admit to myself that I'm just who I am, and that's an INFJ... who has to know the correct answer.

I think I am going to turn this thread into a bit of a dissertation on my personal journey and cognitive growth... stories of how I got to this point mentally, from early childhood until now, as a map for other INFJs in their cognitive development.
 
That would be interesting -- I'd like to see how your story might somehow have parallels to mine, in terms of patterns of development. I've been leaning more and more towards the E side lately, although I know I'm I at heart, so it'd be cool to see if there's any likenesses in how one grows to that point.
 
Von, I encourage you to puzzle things out in writing. You really get my wheels turning!
 
Today's episode includes some new terminology, as well as continuation of previously discussed theories.

New Terminology:

Internal, rather than Introverted.
External, rather than Extroverted.

The distinction in these two words is subtle, but much more accurate. Introversion and Extroversion imply social interaction styles, which has very little to do with the specific functions. I suggest that you begin to consider each of the functions as Internal or External instead. It will make a big difference in how you understand them to work.

For example, Internal Intuition and External Feeling make up the INFJ preference order. My intuition is internally based. My feeling is externally based.

Continuation of Previously Discussed Theories:

I've presented the theory that when people are presented with a problem that cannot be reolved with their dominant function, they either move to their secondary function. If that doesn't work, they'll go down the list of their auxiliary, inferior, etc functions until the problem is resolved or abandoned. For example, INFJs start with Ni, move to Fe, then Ti, then Se, etc. Each time we use a function, we develop more capacity and fluency with that function, and therefore more preference with that function. This is why as people age, they seem more 'balanced'. They've developed more capacity with all of their functions, and are able to comfortably handle problems that would have otherwise caused a great deal of stress. Older INFJs tend to have a much move developed Fe, Ti, and even Se than younger ones.

I've also presented the theory that when people are presented with long term stressors, they will switch their entire cognitive preferences to the next function order preference. If that order cannot resolve the stressor, they will switch to the next, and so on. This isn't my own theory, but one created by a psychologist I cannot recall the name of. I think it was Beebe, but I'm not sure. As an example, when an INFJ cannot resolve long term stressors, they will switch into ENFJ mode. If that doesn't work, they'll switch to ISTP mode, and eventually ESTP mode, whichever one resolves the situation.

I've had an extremely stressful life. From early childhood, I've had to deal with situations that were terribly stressing and beyond my control, which forced me to learn how to drop into various modes to adapt and survive.

What I have realized is that because I've spent so much time developing my individual functions, as well as my cognitive function modes, that I can now consciously choose to go into ENFJ mode. I can turn on ENFJ reflexively. It's kind of like turning on my super powers. I see a need to be in that mode, and I adapt by switching my function order, and wala I'm an ENFJ.

This is a fascinating insight to me because to my knowledge, cognitive function was not a conscious choice. Aparantly, with enough conditioning, it can be.

Now comes the proof, in a mathmatical sense...

How do I know I'm not an ENFJ who can become an INFJ?

I could be, but my INFJ traits very much seem to be my default. I will slip back into them when I'm not paying attention. I seem to wake up with them, and go to them when I get mentally tired. I've been able to stay in INFJ mode indefinitely, but can only manage to stay in ENFJ mode for a few days at a time, and even then I'll drop back to INFJ mode here and there. I'm basing this conclusion on long term cognitive performance. I usually score INFJ on tests, and when I score ENFJ it is always barely ENFJ.

This might be a more common trait among cognitive function types than not, and would explain a lot of people having a clear grasp of self assessment, but still getting eradic results. I would assume that it is more common with the types that tend to stress themselves out, than not. INFJs are notorious for this, and would explain why so many of us have such a sweeping range of test results.

In any case, I've come to conclusion that I am an NFJ superhero!

:m073:
 
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When I told my INTJ friend my latest theory, she had something interesting to add... as usual.

She said, "I agree, but keep in mind that the nature of this ability causes both modes to be highly ambiverted. Your fluency with one mode will strongly influence the other, and both will be difficult to distinguish."

She's so smart.

And while we were talking, her ISFP friend blurted, "It is no coincidence that the word happiness contains the word penis."

:m027:
 
One thing I've been thinking about is which functions will blend with which to show as a different function. For instance, would Ne be a product of Ni + Fe, or Ni + Se? It seems to me that it would make more sense for the judging and perceiving functions to blend homogeneously.
 
Ni + Fe and Ni + Te could be mistaken for Ne. I don't think two perceiving functions can combine like that.
 
Why so?
 
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