In light of School Shootings. What about the shooter themselves?

[Skarekrow]

As long as there is despair, inequality, racism and neglect, there will be violence. It is easy to scientifically trace your nation's level of violence to how economically unequal the citizens are. If you don't start doing more to include and lift people out of poverty, my fear is that you are only going to see more meaningless and random violence. Banning firearms is a good step, but we should not see it as a goal in it of itself. The problem is much bigger, and deserves attention. It's a shame that Kim Kardashian's vacations and Iggy Azalea's butt is more interesting than injustice and suffering.



Opinions aren't facts. It's dangerous to mix those two up.

Apparently “facts” can be anything you make up or think is true even without any evidence…even when there is evidence contrary to what you state as “fact”…because, well…you experienced it.
Studies show that people will actually “double-down” on their statement even in the face of evidence proving them wrong, some are worse than others about it obviously.
It’s how they deal with the cognitive dissonance in their head.

Oh wait…here is a link citing my statement about people “doubling down” because it’s factual not a subjective experience. -
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/

In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds.

In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs.
Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation.

Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.

 

[INFJUSA]

Psychopaths can be INFJs with inverted emotions that slant towards bad things rather than goodness. For instance, Hitler is considered to have been INFJ, and I have actually known an INFJ who got so angry that he became destructive to property. However, most INFJs are loving and kind. This writing is response to someone who asked about psychopathology.

Many factors, other than the innate personality style, impact the INFJ.

 

[Skarekrow]

Psychopaths can be INFJs with inverted emotions that slant towards bad things rather than goodness. For instance, Hitler is considered to have been INFJ, and I have actually known an INFJ who got so angry that he became destructive to property. However, most INFJs are loving and kind. This writing is response to someone who asked about psychopathology.

Many factors, other than the innate personality style, impact the INFJ.

Still one might argue that one main defining feature of the INFJ is the ability to empathize. This is not possible for a true psychopath/sociopath who emulates emotion.
Yes, INFJs can become unhealthy and traumatic experiences can certain shape a young malleable mind in a negative manner.
But acting like and asshole and being destructive doesn’t a psychopath make.

 

[Skarekrow]

[MENTION=14216]INFJUSA[/MENTION]

I also disagree with Hitler as an INFJ too.
If he was an INFJ, then he also had some sort of mental/emotional disconnect possibly PTSD related to WWI.

 

[INFJUSA]

Many say that Hitler was an INFJ and I can not know that for certain. I can only imagine that something impacted him negatively to make him so hateful. Yet, no amount of pain or disappointment could justify inflicting harm on others. I agree that INFJs are the ones who empathize most, but I suppose there are many factors that impact the brain and of which we cannot completely understand.

 

[just me]

How many people in this thread know the Federal and State gun laws?

 

[INFJUSA]

I think those laws might be different from state to state. There must be a website with a summary of those laws. I do not know them.

 

[the]

Because…?
They make up about 1% of the general population (that would include 8th graders and hunters).
They have been shown to be drawn to certain types of professions.
The link I provided lists ‘teacher' as one of the least likely professions for a psychopath.
But there are certainly other sources if you like.
And a lack of emotion/empathy would not correspond to the INFJ type.
(And the book was really good and funny)
So what’s BS?

Mainly the notion that an infj will never hurt another human due to feelings.

 

[camomile]

I was invited on one of these when I was young and didn't go and if I could be dramatic about it...
copy and paste Omen III Conflitto Finale 1981 Film Streaming in HD -into youtube and go to the middle of the bar about 40 min in. Then go to The hunt 2003, then Fox rescued from the snapping jaws of hounds. So I was never blooded as it's called and as you'll see at the end of the first link provided.

*edit, if an INTJ can make a choice like that, an INFJ can. It could very well have been me on one of those horses.

 

[Skarekrow]

Mainly the notion that an infj will never hurt another human due to feelings.

Oh shit man…we can be the worst about inflicting pain due to some injustice done to us or someone we care about.
I just think that if someone is so lacking in emotion as a psychopath is said to be that even if someone started out as an INFJ and then through having a fucked life or whatnot makes them repress their emotions and reach a psychopathic state, are they still an INFJ?
Would they still test as an INFJ?
That’s all I was getting at.

 

[just me]

Oh the games people play, now...................

 

[camomile]

I'm not playing a game with you.

 

[INFJUSA]

That is a great question, possibly a fine idea for research.

 

[Lerxst]

Still one might argue that one main defining feature of the INFJ is the ability to empathize. This is not possible for a true psychopath/sociopath who emulates emotion.
Yes, INFJs can become unhealthy and traumatic experiences can certain shape a young malleable mind in a negative manner.
But acting like and asshole and being destructive doesn’t a psychopath make.

But here's a question: What if their ability to empathize makes them pick a side. How many times do people do things in God's name, thinking they're being pious and doing his work or by killing, they're actually saving people? What about KKK members who act on the ideals that they are doing what they do to protect their friends, neighbors and families?

I think it depends on which side the the crazy pool they decide to jump into. I'd say even the Thinkers fall into the trap as well. In their minds, I'm sure they think they got to "break a few eggs to make an omelet" when they look at the overall plans and think killing a dozen people is worth it for the price of their ultimate goal.

I think the diseases may differ according to personality types, but I'm sure the end results would be the same whether you were dealing with Schizophrenia or PTSD.

 

[the]

But here's a question: What if their ability to empathize makes them pick a side. How many times do people do things in God's name, thinking they're being pious and doing his work or by killing, they're actually saving people? What about KKK members who act on the ideals that they are doing what they do to protect their friends, neighbors and families?

I think it depends on which side the the crazy pool they decide to jump into. I'd say even the Thinkers fall into the trap as well. In their minds, I'm sure they think they got to "break a few eggs to make an omelet" when they look at the overall plans and think killing a dozen people is worth it for the price of their ultimate goal.

I think the diseases may differ according to personality types, but I'm sure the end results would be the same whether you were dealing with Schizophrenia or PTSD.

Exactly this. Infjs don't live in a vacuum even though they may think it sounds like a good idea.

 

[just me]

I'm not playing a game with you.

Remove these games from the public's disposal.

I am more concerned about the mental state of someone throwing these around:

Especially when they are both submarine and ship launched. Next ones may be heading near Quneitra. Dangerous and a loose cannon. US strike groups are leaving the area. What about OUR allies?

Guns will always be in criminals' hands, no matter the laws. Why make it hard for someone to protect themselves? Seen the crime rate in Chicago? Some of the strictest gun laws.

Prepare for the worst and expect the best. I trust our gun laws more than our President's abilities.

 

[j654dgj7]

Remove these games from the public's disposal.

I am more concerned about the mental state of someone throwing these around:

Especially when they are both submarine and ship launched. Next ones may be heading near Quneitra. Dangerous and a loose cannon. US strike groups are leaving the area. What about OUR allies?

Guns will always be in criminals' hands, no matter the laws. Why make it hard for someone to protect themselves? Seen the crime rate in Chicago? Some of the strictest gun laws.

Prepare for the worst and expect the best. I trust our gun laws more than our President's abilities.

You're going off-topic, this is about domestic violence.

This made me think of Bob Dylan when he once sang: "Good and bad/I defined these terms/Quite clear, no doubt, somehow/Ah, but I was so much older then/I'm younger than that now."

No issue can be resolved with the stroke of a hand. But we have to start somewhere.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I appreciate the direction [MENTION=13940]Retroverse[/MENTION] took the original question. Not "guns are bad" but what can we do about the people who for whatever reason would turn them against innocents.

From a rational logical perspective there is nothing that can be done. Take one weapon away from a person who chooses to do this only to have them replace it with another.

I think one of the things that needs to be looked closely at is percentages. 6 people die from a massacre such as what happened here, the news grabs a hold of it and props it up as if the entire world has just been shot. 6 people out of 400 million in the United States. I bet more people died that day falling out of trees. This is along the same lines of watching a single house burn on the news. Drive down any street and actually look at the houses this time. Its an insignificant amount but it seems bigger because its on the news.

People need to learn how not to cower in fear when other people snap. People lose it, its a fact of life. Dont be one of those people holding their hands in front of their face as if its going to do anything for you other than get you killed that much quicker. That or, stay inside and never go out

 

[Eventhorizon]

I have actually known an INFJ who got so angry that he became destructive to property.

Im sorry but is that supposed to seem far fetched? Many conversations I have had here have people losing it for me doing nothing other than asking questions. Its my experience there is a fairly unstable uncontrolled aspect to infjs.

 

[Skarekrow]

But here's a question: What if their ability to empathize makes them pick a side. How many times do people do things in God's name, thinking they're being pious and doing his work or by killing, they're actually saving people? What about KKK members who act on the ideals that they are doing what they do to protect their friends, neighbors and families?

I think it depends on which side the the crazy pool they decide to jump into. I'd say even the Thinkers fall into the trap as well. In their minds, I'm sure they think they got to "break a few eggs to make an omelet" when they look at the overall plans and think killing a dozen people is worth it for the price of their ultimate goal.

I think the diseases may differ according to personality types, but I'm sure the end results would be the same whether you were dealing with Schizophrenia or PTSD.

Exactly this. Infjs don't live in a vacuum even though they may think it sounds like a good idea.

I never said they were living in a vacuum.
I explained my reasoning and agreed with what you said.
No one should kill anyone for any reason if they can help it.
There are exceptions of course…if someone abused my Son I can’t say that I wouldn't try and shoot the bastard.
Or someone breaking into your home…I don’t disagree that you should shoot the bastard ( I once did a surgery on this guy who had a broad head arrow stuck in the crest of his hip…he broke into this guys house and the guy had his compound bow right by the bed….we actually had to dig it out of his bone ahahaha)

But that is a reaction based on emotion, not a lack of emotion that a psychopath exhibits.
There are all kinds of crazy that would lead someone to shoot people…I’m not exclusively blaming psychopaths and never did.
Nor did I exclude INFJs from becoming a psychopath, though we now know it is nature and nurture, there are physiological differences in the brain…in fact the Doctor who did the study found out his own brain had this difference…and yet, he loves his wife and children…he attributes this to a loving and stable childhood, so there is more to it than just being born a certain way.
I would argue that any MBTI type that has this physiological predisposition and then goes through some kind of childhood trauma that just fucks them up to the point that an MBTI wouldn’t really matter anymore because their emotions have been fundamentally changed.
If someone is a true sociopath they could theoretically take the test and be any range of MBTI types because they know how to answer the questions…I mean - anyone can do that…someone who we would say is Psychopathic tend to copy the emotions and facial expressions of others, they can be very superficially charming, and intensely arrogant.
But someone who is an adult and tests consistently as an INFJ, who isn’t faking out the test but is honestly answering the questions would be less likely to snap and go psycho IMO. You don’t have to agree.