In light of School Shootings. What about the shooter themselves?

ezra said:
You're going off-topic, this is about domestic violence.

This made me think of Bob Dylan when he once sang: "Good and bad/I defined these terms/Quite clear, no doubt, somehow/Ah, but I was so much older then/I'm younger than that now."

No issue can be resolved with the stroke of a hand. But we have to start somewhere.
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If those trying to "start somewhere" would study the existing laws governing these things, study the crime rates as opposed to the existing laws, and just think about it: they might find the answer has nothing to do with gun control. I'm watching an administration make mistake after mistake overseas influencing hundreds of thousands of people; and the outcomes. They are the last people I would want playing around with our laws.
 
Scarecrow: if they don't have to agree, why not let them disagree and drop it?
 
Skarekrow said:
I never said they were living in a vacuum.
I explained my reasoning and agreed with what you said.
No one should kill anyone for any reason if they can help it.
There are exceptions of course…if someone abused my Son I can’t say that I wouldn't try and shoot the bastard.
Or someone breaking into your home…I don’t disagree that you should shoot the bastard ( I once did a surgery on this guy who had a broad head arrow stuck in the crest of his hip…he broke into this guys house and the guy had his compound bow right by the bed….we actually had to dig it out of his bone ahahaha)

But that is a reaction based on emotion, not a lack of emotion that a psychopath exhibits.
There are all kinds of crazy that would lead someone to shoot people…I’m not exclusively blaming psychopaths and never did.
Nor did I exclude INFJs from becoming a psychopath, though we now know it is nature and nurture, there are physiological differences in the brain…in fact the Doctor who did the study found out his own brain had this difference…and yet, he loves his wife and children…he attributes this to a loving and stable childhood, so there is more to it than just being born a certain way.
I would argue that any MBTI type that has this physiological predisposition and then goes through some kind of childhood trauma that just fucks them up to the point that an MBTI wouldn’t really matter anymore because their emotions have been fundamentally changed.
If someone is a true sociopath they could theoretically take the test and be any range of MBTI types because they know how to answer the questions…I mean - anyone can do that…someone who we would say is Psychopathic tend to copy the emotions and facial expressions of others, they can be very superficially charming, and intensely arrogant.
But someone who is an adult and tests consistently as an INFJ, who isn’t faking out the test but is honestly answering the questions would be less likely to snap and go psycho IMO. You don’t have to agree.
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At this point you are saying that mbti is about what you happen to be acting like at the moment. What good is that to knowing yourself, is it even useful anymore? Ex: I was infj but now I'm a psychopath so I'm estj. Now I'm reading so I'm introverted, now I'm talking to someone so I'm extroverted.
 
It's really quite sweet people on INFJ forum are saying so many incorrect things about antisocial personality disorder. Or it would be sweet if I didn't know INFJ's or INFJ-like people are good targets for them and you should know more for protection. Not sure which.

*edit* Then I think about the reality of life and breathe out.
 
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just me said:
Remove these games from the public's disposal.

I am more concerned about the mental state of someone throwing these around:
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Especially when they are both submarine and ship launched. Next ones may be heading near Quneitra. Dangerous and a loose cannon. US strike groups are leaving the area. What about OUR allies?

Guns will always be in criminals' hands, no matter the laws. Why make it hard for someone to protect themselves? Seen the crime rate in Chicago? Some of the strictest gun laws.

Prepare for the worst and expect the best. I trust our gun laws more than our President's abilities.
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I saw a post from sprinkles in the lounge, random part 4 of a video game called prison architect. It will make you blink.
 
[MENTION=14193]camomile[/MENTION]

Also there's an interesting thing I noticed about Prison Architect. Players in general seem to be as nice as they can be when they're building a prison because the quality of the prison effects the prisoners reoffending rate and their tendency to riot. If you're too cruel to the prisoners they may burn down half your prison.

But alternately when players play as the prisoner trying to escape, all hell breaks loose and it turns into chain murder arson simulator.

Edit:
And really, the architect side of the game is pretty good and you end up trying to make the prisoners reformed and educated and make sure they have spiritual guidance, medical and psychological treatment, set up drug and alcohol recovery programs, teach them skills, make sure their families can visit... It really turns out to be a morality simulator. That was until they added this escape mode which may have been a mistake and might overshadow what was good about the game.
 
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the said:
At this point you are saying that mbti is about what you happen to be acting like at the moment. What good is that to knowing yourself, is it even useful anymore? Ex: I was infj but now I'm a psychopath so I'm estj. Now I'm reading so I'm introverted, now I'm talking to someone so I'm extroverted.
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No that isn’t what I said.
I said someone who has experienced some sort of trauma in their lives may test differently before and after - especially if it fucks with someone’s emotions or they become too scared to talk to anyone for example where maybe they wern't before.
For someone that is truly sociopathic and has limited or few of their “own” emotions I’m saying they could theoretically take the test and make it say anything they want (anyone can, one only has to know how to answer the questions) - because you don’t have to be a genius to fool the MBTI test and intelligence doesn’t have anything to do with being a sociopath.

Don’t extrapolate things I didn’t say please, if I wasn’t clear then say so and I will try to clarify it for you.
 
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just me said:
Scarecrow: if they don't have to agree, why not let them disagree and drop it?
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Why don’t we try and stay on topic?
Half of your postings have nothing to do with the topic.
Which this thread is definitely not.

I can still disagree with someone and have a civil discussion with them about it just me (even though you may think of me differently).
If I post and people ask questions about it, or discuss a point back at me, or I feel that I wasn’t very clear in making the point I was trying to make (because I have communication fails too ;-)) then I will continue talking to them even though we may disagree.
It doesn’t have to be so black and white.
 
sprinkles said:
[MENTION=14193]camomile[/MENTION]

Also there's an interesting thing I noticed about Prison Architect. Players in general seem to be as nice as they can be when they're building a prison because the quality of the prison effects the prisoners reoffending rate and their tendency to riot. If you're too cruel to the prisoners they may burn down half your prison.

But alternately when players play as the prisoner trying to escape, all hell breaks loose and it turns into chain murder arson simulator.

Edit:
And really, the architect side of the game is pretty good and you end up trying to make the prisoners reformed and educated and make sure they have spiritual guidance, medical and psychological treatment, set up drug and alcohol recovery programs, teach them skills, make sure their families can visit... It really turns out to be a morality simulator. That was until they added this escape mode which may have been a mistake and might overshadow what was good about the game.
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So really it's about controlling anarchy. :)
 
Skarekrow said:
No that isn’t what I said.
I said someone who has experienced some sort of trauma in their lives may test differently before and after - especially if it fucks with someone’s emotions or they become too scared to talk to anyone for example where maybe they wern't before.
For someone that is truly sociopathic and has limited or few of their “own” emotions I’m saying they could theoretically take the test and make it say anything they want (anyone can, one only has to know how to answer the questions) - because you don’t have to be a genius to fool the MBTI test and intelligence doesn’t have anything to do with being a sociopath.

Don’t extrapolate things I didn’t say please, if I wasn’t clear then say so and I will try to clarify it for you.
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What you say is going to be extrapolated. No stopping that.
 
Retroverse said:
Since America has developed a nasty stigma about mental illness. People who are dire need of help often hide their issues. They that if they were exposed and people knew how they felt entirely, they'd be pegged as crazy. No one really wants to be labled as crazy, outcast, lunatic, weak. Those are all the things I notice periodically are associated with mental disorders. It saddens me because these people are literally dying for help. The help never comes and they finally lash out. Taking people with them and trying to make a statement. I can't condone them for killing people. Yet I feel sorry for them that they never got the help they deserved as a human being.
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This isn't a very insightful perspective since it isn't clear that these people are actually "suffering".

I would like to borrow language from social psychology and reason about this from an "availability heuristic" perspective. Individuals act on and make judgements about the world using information that is accessible to them. Since guns are part of American culture, they are a highly accessible piece of information.
Individuals that resolve on murder are going to decide on a means. Since guns are a "highly accessible", the means they consider are going to include guns. So why is this interesting? Well, consider the situation where guns are not "highly accessible". In a culture that does not obsess over guns. Will a gun ever occur to this individual as a means?

This is about culture, not gun control.
 
This tragedy has everything to do with gun control. Gun control is the logical place to start with preventing mass shootings. Will it stop this kind of violence? No maybe not, but restricting access to deadly assault weapons that are designed for the sole purpose of killing quickly and efficiently is where it has to start.

How many people would have been killed if the shooter had a knife or even a shotgun? A lot less.

All the guns were obtained legally. He had 13 guns in his procession and a long history of mental instability. Here are some examples of the guns he used found at the scene of the crime:

9mm Glock handgun A compact semi automatic pistol capable of firing 15 rounds at a time. Relatively easy to conceal.
.40 S&W Smith & Wesson handgun Another semi automatic pistol designed for law enforcement
three other handguns, and a Del-Ton 5.56×45mm rifle This is essentially an AR-15 semi automatic assault rifle.

There are heavy restrictions on possession of such weapons in most countries in the developed world, most countries in the world require that owners of these weapons be profiled and screened. There is no logical reason why the US should not be doing the same.
 
the said:
What you say is going to be extrapolated. No stopping that.
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I feel like we’ve reached this point in our discussion...
909fd6e7c9bcaa79b68943201e2c04f1.jpg
 
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Take an introvert, a handful of bullies and a 3D printer and you have a recipe for the end of the world.

Soon we'll be printing our own bombs and viruses.

Not long now.....
 
Aaron Hepi said:
This isn't a very insightful perspective since it isn't clear that these people are actually "suffering".

I would like to borrow language from social psychology and reason about this from an "availability heuristic" perspective. Individuals act on and make judgements about the world using information that is accessible to them. Since guns are part of American culture, they are a highly accessible piece of information.
Individuals that resolve on murder are going to decide on a means. Since guns are a "highly accessible", the means they consider are going to include guns. So why is this interesting? Well, consider the situation where guns are not "highly accessible". In a culture that does not obsess over guns. Will a gun ever occur to this individual as a means?

This is about culture, not gun control.
Click to expand...

Actions are committed with whatever is available to a culture. I think it may go back as far as two parents that must both work to survive, thus leaving parenting to a bare minimum for the ones that get drunk and run the streets or do drugs. From my rearing, I would never even think about the atrocities that are being committed. Of course: I was raised in church, too. I received a spanking if I did something bad. It is more about a "changing" culture.
 
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