INFJ + INTJ = !?!??

[Satya]

Lurker may try to dismiss some of the less that desirable traits of INTJs as "unhealthy" but I assure you that they are a rather common theme regardless of that claim. Add to the list that INTJs are usually incapable of seeing themselves from others point of view and will often rationalize away any complaints anyone has about them. They are just as defensive and dismissive as INFJs and that can be quite annoying in itself. That is why I hesitated to point out negative things I had noticed with INTJs in this thread.

 

[Lurker]

Lurker may try to dismiss some of the less that desirable traits of INTJs as "unhealthy" but I assure you that they are a rather common theme regardless of that claim.

Huh? I'm not trying to dismiss anything. By what definition is what I state not unhealthy?

It just so happens that I believe most people in this world are not dealing with life on a healthy level, regardless of type. I make no claim as to what the majority or minority nor did I disagree on your opinions.

Add to the list that INTJs are usually incapable of seeing themselves from others point of view and will often rationalize away any complaints anyone has about them.

Most people do not try to see things from another’s point of view, regardless of type, so are largely unaware but everyone is capable. If you think I'm dismissing by saying these traits are unhealthy I'm not... they are unhealthy. Someone who is unprepared to listen to another’s point of view is not someone I chose to associate with regardless of type, that said I have already stated that an unhealthy NT imho is one of the worst people to know due to some of the things you've mentioned and much, much more.

They are just as defensive and dismissive as INFJs and that can be quite annoying in itself. That is why I hesitated to point out negative things I had noticed with INTJs in this thread.

Hmm, defensive and dismissive eh. Well I hope you can understand where I’m coming from now. I’m all for understanding how I’m perceived through others eyes and I do not dismiss things like that I was just adding my thoughts.

 

[Satya]

Most people do not try to see things from another’s point of view, regardless of type, so are largely unaware but everyone is capable. If you think I'm dismissing by saying these traits are unhealthy I'm not... they are unhealthy. Someone who is unprepared to listen to another’s point of view is not someone I chose to associate with regardless of type, that said I have already stated that an unhealthy NT imho is one of the worst people to know due to some of the things you've mentioned and much, much more.

I would say about half are concerned with other people's point of view, because about half possess Fe which is the empathizing function normally associated with caring what other people think. It's also a function that INTJs do not normally utilize. In fact, it would be a sign that they are acting in an unhealthy manner if they did.

I should warn you that my disdain for INTJ relationships is legendary. Just ask DOY.

 

[Kwistalline]

Most people do not try to see things from another’s point of view, regardless of type, so are largely unaware but everyone is capable. If you think I'm dismissing by saying these traits are unhealthy I'm not... they are unhealthy. Someone who is unprepared to listen to another’s point of view is not someone I chose to associate with regardless of type, that said I have already stated that an unhealthy NT imho is one of the worst people to know due to some of the things you've mentioned and much, much more.

I would say about half are concerned with other people's point of view, because about half possess Fe which is the empathizing function normally associated with caring what other people think. It's also a function that INTJs do not normally utilize. In fact, it would be a sign that they are acting in an unhealthy manner if they did.

I should warn you that my disdain for INTJ relationships is legendary. Just ask DOY.

I have to disagree. But I think we differ on what you mean by "unhealthy".

IMHO, "Healthy", for all types, is being able to employ various aspects of other preferences. This is also called "growing". Lurker, for example, though her type is not noted for being compassionate, has shown that particular quality on this forum. For her, I would call this growth, and also label it as being "healthy".

It must also be remembered that MBTI qualities are not meant to be used as stereotypes or means for division. Their purpose was to help us understand each other, not give us a reason to stamp the envelope and move on. Even within this forum, the INFJ's are not equal. You and I may be the best examples of this. Similar, but VERY different.

 

[Satya]

I have to disagree. But I think we differ on what you mean by "unhealthy".

IMHO, "Healthy", for all types, is being able to employ various aspects of other preferences. This is also called "growing". Lurker, for example, though her type is not noted for being compassionate, has shown that particular quality on this forum. For her, I would call this growth, and also label it as being "healthy".

To utilize other preferences in a constructive manner, would indeed be healthy. I was merely arguing that, according to the theory, utilizing other preferences is often a sign of stress and frustration, and therefore unhealthiness.

It must also be remembered that MBTI qualities are not meant to be used as stereotypes or means for division. Their purpose was to help us understand each other, not give us a reason to stamp the envelope and move on.

I am merely providing criticisms to INTJ relationships that I have observed. Lurker made the argument that the individuals I observed were "unhealthy" examples of the type, which I know is not true, and also because I have encountered the same behavior patterns online numerous times. This thread asks us to utilize MBTI qualities as a means to decipher differences between INTJs and INFJs, when it comes to relationships, so that is what I am doing based on my own experience and understanding of the theory.

Even within this forum, the INFJ's are not equal. You and I may be the best examples of this. Similar, but VERY different.

If you argument is that we are at different levels of maturation, then that is indeed correct. I mostly interact with INTJs who are in their 20's, and I can therefore not be an accurate judge of how INTJs in their 30's or 40's would act.

 

[Shai Gar]

Even within this forum, the INFJ's are not equal. You and I may be the best examples of this. Similar, but VERY different.

If you argument is that we are at different levels of maturation, then that is indeed correct.

hehe, it's so obvious they just want to snuggle each other really.

 

[Satya]

hehe, it's so obvious they just want to snuggle each other really.

INFJs with radically different schema are not predisposed to snuggling each other.

 

[Shai Gar]

'dawww

 

[tereza]

I'm going to refresh this topic as I have recently fallen for an INFJ.
Problem is he is halfway around the world, but in about six weeks I'm going to meet him.
We get on great so far, not sure if the whole INTJ-INFJ thing will be a problem?

Hi there! Thanks for breathing some life into this thread...it's gotten pretty interesting.

I don't think the INTJ-INFJ thing will be a problem as long as both of you have realistic expectations and make sure to communicate with each other. I think that as intuitives, we have a tendency to assume that we know what the other person is thinking (and usually we're right), but that can lead to lots of misunderstandings. Also, throw in some nerves and romantic hopes into the mix and things can get pretty messy.

For example, the INTJ I was interested in was also long distance. When we last spent time together, he assumed that I was rushing through the sightseeing because I wasn't having fun. When in actuality, I was rushing through things because he kept checking the time, so I thought we didn't have enough time to see things. And the reason he was checking the time was because depending on time, the choices of places to see changed. So while he was trying to make sure I was having a good time, I was trying to make sure that he didn't have to deal with bad traffic. Both of us meant well, but...:roll: that small confusion pretty much ruined things.

 

[tereza]

INTJs usually expect others to take care of themselves. Don't expect an INTJ to sympathize with you too much if you get hurt or sick.

Actually, I experienced the exact opposite with my INTJ friend. I think when you're considered one of their friends, they're amazingly sympathetic and caring. I remember two years ago, I was absolutely heartbroken over some idiot guy and my INTJ friend said some of the most sweetest things to cheer me up. If I would go missing, he'd get worried and try to contact me. And whenever I've had some hair-brained idea for some project or was screwing up badly, he's always been rather supportive and helpful (always having some sort of suggestion to fix things).

 

[littlesapling]

i know one intj whose a good friend of mine's and well, let's just say there can be alot to learn from one another ...that's only if you're willing to tolerate/absorb/understand each others whereabouts on a neutral level that must be created by both parties.

other than that, relationships can be very difficult...unless the intj has a developed Fi side. I put Fi because I know in a "romantic-beyond friendship sense" for an infj, is Fi as well. the Fe part about an infj is more of a coat to wear while trekking through the external world.

 

[littlesapling]

INTJs usually expect others to take care of themselves. Don't expect an INTJ to sympathize with you too much if you get hurt or sick.

Actually, I experienced the exact opposite with my INTJ friend. I think when you're considered one of their friends, they're amazingly sympathetic and caring. I remember two years ago, I was absolutely heartbroken over some idiot guy and my INTJ friend said some of the most sweetest things to cheer me up. If I would go missing, he'd get worried and try to contact me. And whenever I've had some hair-brained idea for some project or was screwing up badly, he's always been rather supportive and helpful (always having some sort of suggestion to fix things).

no doubt, they can be very caring, but i'm sure that too is because you two are relatively close. otherwise, i don't think intj's would lessen their guard Te Je, side so easily. hehe, only a few worthy can enter the Fi Pi about them..which they've got to effortly try for.. no doubt im sure it tires them..but for a good friend..

i think there is no bounds what others will do for a good friend.. regardless of how tiring or "hard" it seems...

 

[logan235711]

Having recently had my heart pushed to to extremes by an INTJ, I'm curious to hear if anyone has anything to share about them?

Personally, I'm not one who wears my heart on my sleeve (when it comes to romance) and when a relationship ends, 10 out of 10 times I won't resist it. I might ask them to reconsider, perhaps shed a few tears and then turn my back on them forever. Sometimes they come back, but they might as well be dead to me. But with this one INTJ guy...
Geez louise.

He makes my intuitive side go nuts because I can tell that he's attracted to me, but I can't explain why I feel it. Something in his actions? Voice? I don't know, it's just there. Yet he refuses to give "us" a chance. He'll list off reasons why I am completely wrong for him, but oddly enough, those reasons come across as him projecting inadequacies of his own. It's weird. All I have are these gut feelings about him and when I talk to people about it, they think I'm nuts. Anyone else experience something like this?

Anyway. I'm not looking for hope because I've already put myself out there. He still resists the idea of it and all I can do is move on (though if he changed his mind I'd still give him a chance). Still, I'm curious to hear the experiences of others. The good, the bad and the ugly.

I can tell you that sometimes INTJs really do feel inadequate. They feel inadequate that they currently possess what they feel and think they should possess in order to give a person the best experience they can with them. Thus, INTJs can often simply put off getting with someone until they feel that they are at the level where they want to be so that they won't accidentally disappoint a person in some way. Obviously this usually is a worse choice than just going with it initially, but the whole point is the this is part of an INTJ's potential Uber-Perfectionistic traits coming to the fore en-mass. A good example of how INTJ's perfections can hurt them.

Also, an INTJ can be unsure about how he or she feels and thinks about a relationship. They love to plan and analyze and can sometimes (often?) get into the trap of trying to foresee everything that is possible in a relationship before they even step one-foot into it. This also shows the sometimes unrealistic notions they can posess and invest in thinking that certain things can be solved purely with arm-chair thinking rather than understanding that some things work themselves out best by going out and simply doing it.

 

[Shaz]

It didn't really work with the INTJ I dated either, partly because of the reasons satya listed. The main problem for me was his stubbornness and his impossibility to listen to my opinion on things. He always had to be right. SO ANNOYING!!!!

This said he brought me a lot on other levels and I'm really glad we're still in touch now.

 

[Dutchie]

Some insights

I have dated several INTJ's...I seem to be attracted to them like a magnet and them to me- for reasons that only our shared lead function (introverted intuition)can explain I am sure. I both love INTJ’s and find them extremely frustrating. I believe the main source of my frustration is that their natural propensity in life is to approach all things and to view all things in terms of their limitations- why they can’t work instead of why they can. This is both a gift (it makes them brilliant engineers, project managers) and it makes them able to walk into a room, size up a situation and develop an efficient plan for improvement in a matter of seconds. The problem is that INTJ’s try to do this to people as well. They want people to make sense like systems do. INFJ’s are people builders and INTJ’s are systems builders. They approach relationships by analyzing why they won’t work and what the limitations are, they simply aren’t built any other way.

What’s more difficult for us to understand is that they will try to put you into a little compartment/category- work will most likely come first, and he/she will access you when he/she has time for you. You can’t expect to come first with an INTJ. They are extremely goal oriented, as we are, but they go about reaching those goals way differently than we do. INFJ’s find that very hard to take, but the chemistry we share with INTJ’s is also very hard to let go of (my last INTJ was a fantastic kisserJ).

Usually an INTJ will reel me in for a while, until he knows I am under his spell, and then he will stop paying sufficient attention to me. Once I start closing the door on him however, he panics and reels me in again. This goes on a while until I get tired of the head games, remind myself that “people treat you how you allow them to treat you”, and slam the door for good. As INFJ’s after all, we do have our values to defend, and I have never been one to allow myself to be manipulated for long.

 

[logan235711]

*starts to reel Dutchie in*

 

[thirtysleuths]

He interprets my aloofness as a rejection and then closes himself off. I then assume he's rejecting me and put up a wall. The extra aloofness forces him to go into extreme robot mode and he comes to the conclusion that a relationship can never work. Which sucks, because it doesn't matter if I can disprove his reasons, because he'll just resist it even more.

This is almost exactly what happened to me. It hurts to read this thread, having had an INTJ slice my heart and dry it in the desert sun for jerky. Rather, she still does. And we go through this process time and time again. I don't know how much more I can take.

Edit: a lot. Partly because I'm crazy, but mostly because she's worth it!

 

[Shai Gar]

do a dutchie and slam the door shut

 

[thirtysleuths]

slam the door shut

Easier said than done, my friend! Love is the only sickness everyone wants, and no one wants to get rid of. Besides, I have a thing about following through to the end, no matter how wretched. Though I never eat the last hors d'oeuvre. But I always mean to be left rather than leave. Call it needless suffering, if you will. It just feels right.

 

[Wyote]

1. INFJ + INTJ
2. ????
3. Profit!