INFJ Leaders of History

I just find them depressing. INFP is sooo pooooor

$60K isn't that bad in my opinion, but I guess it depends on where you live, cost of living, etc. Don't worry, I know some successful INFPs :)

I think there's some truth to this chart when I consider my family. My parents are both ESTJ, both are really successful business people. My two sisters that are ESFJ are making big bucks.. But oh yeah of course, there's me, the ENTJ..

Haha jk. I wish~
 
I just find them depressing. INFP is sooo pooooor

$60K isn't that bad in my opinion, but I guess it depends on where you live, cost of living, etc. Don't worry, I know some successful INFPs :)

I think there's some truth to this chart when I consider my family. My parents are both ESTJ, both are really successful business people. My two sisters that are ESFJ are making big bucks.. But oh yeah of course, there's me, the ENTJ..

Haha jk. I wish~

Perhaps it just means we find happiness without needing insane amounts of money. ;P
 
For some odd reason I can't seem to edit my first post any more. Which is a problem seeing as my little project kind of depends on it.
 
All right, it doesn't matter. Ad-hoc it is. Next up is Chiang!

"Evil" Leaders

Chiang Kai-Shek (aka Jiang Jieshi)



China today is divided on the issue of one of its most important 20th Century figures. In Taiwan - or the Republic of China - he is celebrated as a national hero among the supporters of the still-functioning KMT (Kuomintang) party which Chiang led, but in Mainland China (PRC) he is seen as a corrupt figure of the Warlord Era.

He was born in 1887 in the small town of Xikou near Ningbo in Zhejiang province on the East Coast of China. At this time, the Qing dynasty, the last Imperial dynasty of China was in power. The Qing was not an ethnically Chinese (Han) government: the Manchu minority were the ethnic group of the dynasty at the time. As such, many Chinese felt that the Qing government didn't fully represent them, and in 1911 a Republic was finally proclaimed in the midst of growing Japanese power and a recent sharp defeat in a war with Japan in the 1890's which led to Japan seizing Taiwan.

After a while spent in Japan, Chiang found himself a devoted supporter of the Kuomintang revolutionary republican party in the new Republic. Although the Republic had been proclaimed, China was far from unified. An Emperor-Dictator called Yuan Shikai took control in Beijing while warlords everywhere else eagerly carved up China for their own selfish gain.

The leader of the KMT, Sun Yat-Sen died in 1925 leaving a power vacuum. Chiang emerged as the de facto leader of the right-wing of the party in the mid 1920's and soon managed to establish control over China, leading a military expedition northwards in 1926 to recapture Northern China from the warlords.

Sun Yat-Sen could be compared to Lenin in that he founded a new nation and political party and died in 1925, one year after Lenin's death. However, there was another man who saw himself as a future Lenin - Mao Zedong (or Tse-Tung; transliterating Chinese to English is never a clear cut deal).

Mao saw China as the next new breeding ground after Russia for a great Communist revolution. Here, millions upon countless millions of peasants laboured away for their small share of grain and coin at the end of the year, and for what good? Why shoudln't they take their destinies into their own hands?

The Communist Party of China was, by 1927, reaching a critical point. It could either wait to be destroyed by Chiang and the KMT government, or launch a revolution to seize power. It chose the latter; unfortunately for them, both occurred. Chiang and the KMT ordered the suppression of Communist forces in Shanghai after their attempted seizure of power, and soon thereafter mass killings and purges began all over the country. Perhaps a million peasants died during this "White Terror".

Meanwhile the Japanese were also attacking. In 1931 they seized Manchuria, the vast northern region of China bordering the new country of the Soviet Union, which had been supporting Chiang up until the Shanghai massacre. Chiang pursued a policy of "Internal Pacification then External Resistance" which effectively meant wiping out the Communists (CCP) before fighting the Japanese.

Neither campaign, in the end, was a success. Mao's small, devoted band of guerrillas avoided the KMT armies and retreated far into the mountains of Northeast-Central China near the city of Yan'an, which became Mao's capital-base.

Meanwhile the corruption of the KMT government, which Chiang was struggling to destroy with his own injection of Confucian values and centralisation, did not exactly win Chiang any friends in the West.

In 1937 the Japanese Army, which had by this stage grown from a disobedient child into a rampaging alcoholic adolescent, launched a full-scale invasion of the rest of China. A huge Japanese force mixed in with troops from their Chinese puppet state "Manchukou" in Manchuria descended upon the North and easily seized Beijing while an amphibious assault against Shanghai ended with a bloody Japanese victory after months of hard fighting in which most of Chiang's modern troops were wiped out, but a battle that also took 90,000 Japanese casualties.

Nanjing was the KMT capital during this time, not Beijing. Nanjing is only a few kilometers west of Shanghai and the bungled defence there turned into a massacre as Japanese soldiers ran amok killing, burning, looting and raping everything in sight once they were in control of the city. 300,000 people, some soldiers but mostly civilians, were killed. The West was horrified and continued Japanese refusal to withdraw from China combined with this led to a US oil embargo, which eventually (some say) led to the attack on Pearl Harbour four years later. But that's another story.

Chiang decided to, upon German advice, withdraw into the Chinese hinterlands near the cities of Chengdu and Chongqing (the latter of which was to become the new Nationalist (KMT) capital)). A brutal and badly implemented scorched earth policy hurt the advancing Japanese but hurt the suffering Chinese citizenry even more.

Although Chiang's government wasn't exactly popular due to brutality and corruption, still the Chinese people rallied around them and over another 8 years of brutal warfare were able to resist the Japanese until their surrender to the USA in 1945.

Meanwhile Mao had been wisely avoiding battle during the war with the Japanese, hoping to preserve his forces for an attack on the KMT after the war was over. Chiang decided not to (even though he was offered) gain control over the 1.5 million Japanese Army soldiers who had surrendered in China to fight the Communists. In the end this was a bad decision. Tired of Nationalist incompetence, no food and no rights, peasants flocked to Mao's banners as he swept through the Chinese countryside. By 1949, the People's Republic of China had been proclaimed and the Nationalist government had crumbled completely. Chiang fled to Taiwan and would spend the rest of his life there, planning the unrealistic objective of retaking mainland China as well as crushing domestic opposition.

Without US support, there was realistically no hope of Chiang retaking the Mainland, and since his government was neither Christian nor democratic, this support did not occur. Nevertheless, Chiang remained obsessed with planning for the never-to-be-realised operation.

Chiang and the KMT would rule Taiwan in relative peace until his death in 1975

In 1947 while the civil war was still going on, an anti-government demonstration in Taiwan was crushed in the 228 Incident. In the KMT's version of the Tiananmen Square Massacre somewhere between 10,000 and 30,000 people were killed during the crackdown.

The Republic of China government in Taiwan still claims authority over the mainland, while the PRC claims as a result of its near total victory in the civil war that Taiwan rightfully belongs to them. This is why the ROC is unrecognized today by most nations as being such even though it makes all of our computer cases (and other useful products).




INFJ vs. ENTP - Chiang Kai-Shek vs Mao Zedong

Ah, the INFJ - ENTP relationship. From my readings around this forum it's never an easy path. But nowhere has this relationship been more strained than between China's two most notorious 20th Century leaders. Doubtlessly, that might be incorrect. You might have had a scaldingly, dangerously wild fight with your ENTP partner that was worse than the Chiang-Mao relationship, if you ever have had one. Of course such fights rarely end in....say.... 30 years of civil war.

There were several ceasefires between the bloodshed, especially while the Japanese were invading where the two factions were de facto allies. During this time the leaders did meet...

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/newsphoto/2011-09-15/450/74266_0020600711_2011資料照片F_2011資料照片_copy1.JPG

A picture of the two together. Aren't they a lovely couple?

Ideologically, Mao believed that a modern China could only be achieved through a peasant revolution followed by a modernisation through industrialisation, while Chiang believed that establishing military control followed by a slow transition to democracy was the best way forwards. In the end, in my own opinion, they were both incompetent, careless and senseless fools. Chiang was brutal, unreasonable and corrupt while Mao was...well, mostly the same - although Mao's Cultural Revolution spread more far and wide than anything Chiang had ever done.

INFJ & INFJ - Chiang Kai-Shek and Adolf Hitler

The only time two leaders on this list were both at peace and ruling their respective nations at the same time was from the 1933-1937 period. During this time, Hitler's Nazi Reich and Chiang's government both showed an interest in cooperation, and as usual Hitler's racist beliefs simply evaporated when a diplomatic ally was gained (he would display the same kind of flip-floppery come 1940, when the so-called inferior Slavs of the USSR would very temporarily become friends with Germany after treacherously wiping Poland off the map).

German advisers began to train new Chinese divisions, you can see how similar they look to Wehrmacht soldiers in this photo here:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4687/image009am.jpg

Of course, under the tutelage of the expert Germans these German-trained divisions performed admirably in the Battle of Shanghai in 1937, although most were unfortunately destroyed during that same battle.

The two leaders never met, although Hitler said once that he admired Chiang for building a "strong centralised state".
 
The website i found that listed Hitler, Chiang kai shek and some others as 'evil' INFJ's also had the BBC and Washington Post at the top of their page

Both of those organisations are part of the central control corporate network that are deeply threatened by INFJ's

So they are trying to demonise INFJ's

Instead of saying ''these guys are INFJ's but 'evil' or anomolies why don't you just realise that they are NOT INFJ's?

Why keep trying to bang a square peg through a round hole?

They're not anomolous INFJ's or 'evil' INFJ's..they're just NOT INFJ's

I recommend you look at ENTJ's for a better understanding of an intuitive type that is hungry for power; ENTJ's love centralised power systems and that is why they gravitate towards corporations

I'll be posting some more on this matter soon when i have some time
 
For some odd reason I can't seem to edit my first post any more. Which is a problem seeing as my little project kind of depends on it.

Your 'little project'?

You mean using a BBC/Washington post propaganda website (both affiliated to the CFR and Chatham House) to try and brand INFJ's as histories psychopaths?

I notice how you said you were an INFJ when you first came to the forum but now you are saying in your profile that you are an INFP!

I see the INFJ haters do that a lot...they come here camoflaged as INFJ's to attack the INFJ type....its classic

Ryanbutler
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Join Date Feb 2014
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Threads 2

You're listening to the wrong people and its because people like you listen to the wrong people that the world is able to be the way it is

It will only improve when people like you wise up and realise that the aggressive types pushing their way to the top of society are NOT INFJ's

Wake up!

It's not INFJ's pushing the corporate agenda and its the corporate network who decide who gets to be leaders of these countries; they don't choose INFJ's they ASSASSINATE INFJ's!
 
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[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

What about unhealthy INFJs? Or those who have that type but are very self-centered?
 
@muir

What about unhealthy INFJs? Or those who have that type but are very self-centered?

They have the capacity to fuck themselves up

If you want to know the types with the capacity to fuck up everyone else then you need to look at the types that are more orientated towards other people and controlling them and thats not INFJ's

INFJ's can do bad things but they're not orientated towards grabbing power over others which is where large scale harm is done...THERE ARE MBTI TYPES OUT THERE THAT ARE AND THAT IS WHERE PEOPLE SHOULD LOOK FOR ANSWERS
 
They have the capacity to fuck themselves up

If you want to know the types with the capacity to fuck up everyone else then you need to look at the types that are more orientated towards other people and controlling them and thats not INFJ's

INFJ's can do bad things but they're not orientated towards grabbing power over others which is where large scale harm is done...THERE ARE MBTI TYPES OUT THERE THAT ARE AND THAT IS WHERE PEOPLE SHOULD LOOK FOR ANSWERS

Alright, no need to shout! :tongue1:

But can these types can use power responsibly too if they are not inclined toward egotism and thriving on a culture that promotes power-grabbing?
 
Alright, no need to shout! :tongue1:

But can these types can use power responsibly too if they are not inclined toward egotism and thriving on a culture that promotes power-grabbing?

Listen man....its all there....people just need to open their eyes

ARE INFJ'S KNOWN FOR BEING POWER HUNGRY?

NO!!!!!!

So why do we let the manipulatiors keep trying to pin that on the type that is known for being a couselor and healer?

I'll tell you why....

Most people have their heads buried up their own arse or the arse of someone else to the degree that the way they see the world is so utterly distorted that it has created a fog.....a fog in which the psychopaths can shoot down planes and blame it on others...in which the psychopaths can rape children and get away with it....in which the psychopaths can inject posion into babies in broad daylight in front of their own oblivious parents.....in which psychopaths can create whole terrorist organisations in the middle east and deny their involvement...in which psychopaths can put toxic chemicals into the water supplies and get away with it!

PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!!!

INFJ's are NOT THE BAD GUYS!

Yes the bad guys are trying to fit up INFJ's because they are masters of deception. They say the opposite of what they are doing

Orwell told us about how they do this. he told us their slogans: ''war is peace'', ''ignorance is strength'' and so on

We live in a twisted world where terrorist governments claim to be fighting for 'democracy' whilst violently suppressing democracy around the world, where britains most prolific child abuser is given a knighthood by the queen and blessed by the pope, where barak 'kill list' obama is awaded the nobel peace prize! etc etc

They always say the opposite of what they're doing. If they are about death and destruction they will call themselves the 'world peace organisation'. If they are about poisoning the public they will call themselves 'public health' or 'public safety' or the world health organisation etc

If they are lying power hungry fucks they will say that the MBTI type most known for working for peace are the power hungy ones and that's what this thread is all about

INFJ's are known for being humanitarian in outlook.....the psychopaths know this because they are obsessed with psychiatry, psychology, psychometric testing etc etc so they try to twist things and say that the INFJ's are the bad guys!

People need to wake up and start seeing through the lies because these guys are criminally insane and they have big plans for all of us

People are so confused they can't tell who the good guys are and who the bad guys are and in the confusion they end up listening to the WRONG PEOPLE
 
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[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

"Your 'little project'?

You mean using a BBC/Washington post propaganda website (both affiliated to the CFR and Chatham House) to try and brand INFJ's as histories psychopaths?

I notice how you said you were an INFJ when you first came to the forum but now you are saying in your profile that you are an INFP!

I see the INFJ haters do that a lot...they come here camoflaged as INFJ's to attack the INFJ type....its classic"




Ok, first of all I don't think anybody on this planet with a shred of journalistic credibility would regard either the BBC or the Washington Post as "propaganda outlets".

Secondly, you may have noticed that initially my type was INFJ originally but I distinctly remember that as never being the case, I set my MBTI as soon as I registered.

Thirdly I am not attacking anybody and if you are taking personal offence at the fact that I have now listed Chiang as being both "evil" and an INFJ I do apologise but this is not directed, as you might have misinterpreted, against the INFJ type in general or making any correlations between being evil and being an INFJ. This is simply a list of historical leaders who happen to be both. I am sure there are evil people from every MBTI.

Fourthly I assure you that contrary to your possible beliefs there is no huge, giant conspiracy to make out INFJ's as the bad guys and that only a tiny minority of people who know about the MBTI believe such a thing, and in turn only a small % of the world's population know about the MBTI. So you should stop with your ridiculous conspiracy theories. If I want them I will go to RT or Alex Jones thank you very much.

Fifthly:

"It will only improve when people like you wise up and realise that the aggressive types pushing their way to the top of society are NOT INFJ's

Wake up!

It's not INFJ's pushing the corporate agenda and its the corporate network who decide who gets to be leaders of these countries; they don't choose INFJ's they ASSASSINATE INFJ's!



I never said or even remotely mentioned that INFJ's care or are influenced by your malicious idea of corporate scheming or whatever you believe in. Actually I believe the contrary, that INFJ's will ignore such things and pursue their own agenda and plans when national leaders. Chiang was accused, for example, of being a capitalist by the Communists but in actuality was not a huge fan of them, and only worked with them out of necessity to keep his government alive.


Sixthly:

"Instead of saying ''these guys are INFJ's but 'evil' or anomolies why don't you just realise that they are NOT INFJ's?

Why keep trying to bang a square peg through a round hole?

They're not anomolous INFJ's or 'evil' INFJ's..they're just NOT INFJ's"

Please give some evidence for your assertions. And "Hurr durr Power Hungry = always ENTJ" is not evidence.

Seventhly, if there is such a word:

"Orwell told us about how they do this. he told us their slogans: ''war is peace'', ''ignorance is strength'' and so on"

Freedom is slavery. And please don't quote Orwell again if you're going to do it from the wrong context.


And lastly I want to leave you with the obviously absurd notion that some leaders, including all on my list, may not have strived for power simply because they were power-hungry, ambitious corporate puppets or whatever you may think, but rather because they simply believed their own ideology to be true and wished it implemented upon the whole country. Which is, in the case of this list, true for all of them.
 
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Seriously, it's pointless to talk to muir. Just add to your ignore list and hope that everybody else does the same.
 
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