- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 954 so/sx
Hahaha! So true
INFJ or INTJ?
- Thread starter Headstorm
- Start date
Hahaha! So true
Ren
Seeker at heart
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 146
D
Deleted member 16771
Great reference!
Ren
Seeker at heart
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 146
God: "Look, a heathen who thinks I'm only a concept!"
Me:
Okay, enough facetiousness for now.
It’s what I ‘see’ looking at OM sometimes so it’s all yours Ren - it’s from your inspiration
Thank you, John! I 'see' that too
Zola
Regular Poster
- MBTI
- INFJ
I hate to say this, but I wanted to be a T because I didn't want to be a doormat. I hope that doesn't offend anyone, but that is how I saw myself as an INFJ. Does anyone else fear that?
I'd like to hear more about this. Ti is hard for me to describe. I understand Te better, and I know how to use it, but I don't always respect it because it reeks of "the committee approved this." Please describe how Ti works for you.
I quit trying to understand it. Ni is my strongest function at 91% but I'm not bragging. It leads me astray, imagining future scenarios that never happen after something shifts in the present time. (Yet, it doesn't surprise me, because I've imagined that alternative scenario, also.) I'm working on strengthening my Se in order to become more realistic and live in the present time. I want to employ the Ni for warnings or creativity.
I teach composition to Highly Gifted students. Many of them are N dominant or auxiliary. Their writing style can be described by the metaphor of Athena springing, fully-formed, from Zeus's head. Teachers have no time to deal with these students in the regular classes because they skip from concept to final form and get bored, demanding "better" assignments, while the other students are filling out worksheets at each step.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 16771
Yeah I get this. It's a fear for me, but probably one that's never actually been realised since I stopped being bullied around 14/15.
As a consequence, though, it puts you on conscious vigilance.
However, there's some ways of looking at our function stack which puts Fi (understanding our own needs and feelings) in the role of 'critical parent' - that is, it's there just sort of nagging you until you begrudgingly listen to it.
Balancing auxiliary Fe with Fi critical parent (the needs of others vs your own) is therefore a conscious one, and not particularly natural to INFJs.
I think I'm pretty good about it, though, because I made it into easily recognisable principles like 'I shall never tolerate being disrespected' (because I'm respectful to others). Maybe it's almost like treating yourself as 'another', but the link with reciprocal principles is very useful.
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 954 so/sx
Apologies in advance for all of my aggressive transgressions
John K
Donor
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 5W4 549
A good example of Ti and Ni working in an inspired way together is to look at @Ren 's Open Monism Notebook blog. Ren is developing a new type of philosophy and expressing it as his ideas develop. The vision is firmly rooted in Ni, but the logical foundations, exposition and critique is from Ti. He;s been developing it within the forum since May this year, however, and I'd advise looking at the early chapters rather than diving into the current material. He's also produced a series of videos about this, and other topics and published them on You Tube - you can see Ni/Ti and Fe all working together there!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSBg6qSVhRUfPVdoyl2EZG5pApnD0DKCh
For myself - well I did a maths degree many years ago and worked in information systems till I retired. Maths is primarily a thinking discipline, though there is room for some Ne and Ni. Maths guys are mainly working things out internally so it's almost all Ti, with some Se or Ne to get things in and out of the external world. So think of solving an equation, or reading a maths text book and working on understanding it.
I experience Ti frequently as narrative analytical thought and use it a lot to translate Ni into peoplespeak. Ni isn't usually verbal in my mind and I experience that as something analogous to seeing. A lot of my decisions are taken starting with Ni/Ti on the analysis side then passing over to Fe as the executive - though in my younger days my Fe was not clearly differentiated and Ti had far too much to say for itself!
You could try taking one of your Ni insights and express it accurately in detail in words - this will get your Ti running. I've likened it before now, in analogy, to standing on a hilltop looking over a wide landscape partly lit, partly in shade. It's full of hills and valleys, a couple of villages, rivers and roads; it's early evening and the sky is filled with interesting clouds; the moon is just rising, the wind is coming from the south west, in your face, etc, etc. You have a telephone and you have to describe the landscape in detail to someone on the phone who has never been there before and is only partially sighted. That is what Ti feels like to me sometimes - like when I'm struggling to find the right way of expressing what I mean in this post
Reason
Percolated
- MBTI
- INTP
Ren
Seeker at heart
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 146
Wow, thanks for the mention, John!
Now I'm blushing.I would say that Fe is actually in the OM framework too, through the idea that "we are all one" in the immanent openness of being. I think that's an NiFe insight, more than just an Ni one. Ti appears quite prominently in the notes because it's a great function to organize and systematize ideas. Admittedly, though - and this is something that people cannot know just from reading my notes - the Ti parts are always the ones that take me the longest to produce. It's always a battle of sorts! Which also explains why I favor shorts paragraphs. That way, I can manage and sustain my Ti efforts without tiring myself out. Moving from one paragraph from the next is also a way to "take a break".
I was discussing this on Youtube with @Rowan Tree recently. The works of Wittgenstein are laid out in a very similar way - short paragraphs. And he is the quintessential Ni-Ti INFJ.
John K
Donor
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 5W4 549
Wow, thanks for the mention, John!
I would say that Fe is actually in the OM framework too, through this idea that "we are all one" in the immanent openness of being. I think that's an NiFe insight, more than just an Ni one. Ti appears quite prominently in the notes because it's a great function to organize and systematize ideas. Admittedly, though - and this is something that people cannot know just from reading my notes - the Ti parts are always the ones that take me the longest to produce. It's always a battle of sorts, haha.
I'm really glad you made this point Ren
I know you had some reservations about how much Fe was in there at one time, before you had gone as deep into the journey. I like this a lot.
Zola
Regular Poster
- MBTI
- INFJ
Okee doke. Will do. Thanks for the recommendation.
Working out answers to math problems step by step is Ti? I mistook it for Te because you have to follow axioms and theorems, therefore I thought it was a "system."
Wait. That's what I do all day with students as a writing instructor. That's Ti? Of course, there are templates for writing essays: introduction, transition words, topic sentences, text support, writing devices, conclusion with resolution. Bla, bla, bla. So, again, I thought it was a Te system.
Still not sure what the difference is, in real-life.
Zola
Regular Poster
- MBTI
- INFJ
Ren, your blog entry listing starts at Chapter 9. How do I find Chapters 1-8?
Watched a number of your videos. The message, to me, was to consider "all the possibilities" that can be reality. That seems Ne -- or what I thought constituted Ne. Perhaps you could call it boundary-less-ness or infinite possiblities. Am I understanding your concept at all? It defies easy definition because the limits don't exactly refer to space or time.
Okay, for example, I once tried to describe what you called immanence. I was at a fundamentalist Christian church, and I got on the wrong side of the women sitting at my table by saying, "This is me," as I picked up a cup of coffee. "This is God," as I held it over a glass of water. Then I poured the coffee in the water.
Didn't go over well.
Watched a number of your videos. The message, to me, was to consider "all the possibilities" that can be reality. That seems Ne -- or what I thought constituted Ne. Perhaps you could call it boundary-less-ness or infinite possiblities. Am I understanding your concept at all? It defies easy definition because the limits don't exactly refer to space or time.
Okay, for example, I once tried to describe what you called immanence. I was at a fundamentalist Christian church, and I got on the wrong side of the women sitting at my table by saying, "This is me," as I picked up a cup of coffee. "This is God," as I held it over a glass of water. Then I poured the coffee in the water.
Didn't go over well.
Last edited:
John K
Donor
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 5W4 549
These short posts can sound too well crafted for their own good!! I don’t have a pitch perfect answer myself. Perhaps one way of contrasting Ti and Te is comprehension and exposition. The first is an essentially introverted experience and the second takes place in the outer world. Ti evaluates within, using our personal principles as the yardstick. Te is focused on making things happen logically in the outside world.
Ren
Seeker at heart
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 146
Hi Zola, thanks for checking out my blog!
What do you mean by it starting at Chapter 9? I'm confused. If you are referring to the Youtube blog, you should have access to the Open Monism playlist by scrolling down the main page. It should all be in there. I've taken a break from making OM videos, because I'm yet to master explaining the other sections of the framework in readily understandable language. I'm practicing, though.Regarding Ne and the consideration of "all the possibilities" that can be reality: I see where you're coming from. Until the summer of last year, I was still toying with the idea of being Ne-dom. But as a result of not really identifying with either the ENTP or ENFP type, I delved into the definitions of Ne and Ni, and it became clear after a while that I was actually Ni-dom. I think that I can explain why, briefly and with reference to OM.
Both Ne and Ni perceive "multiple possibilities", but broadly speaking, Ne's way of perceiving is divergent, while Ni's way is convergent. So where Ne will take a piece of data and extend a spider web outwardly from it, Ni will tend to take several pieces of data and make them converge towards a centre that somehow reconciles the originally seemingly disparate pieces. You can see this depicted vividly here:
In open monism, I don't really argue that there are many different things that can claim to be reality. Rather, I argue that being, the oneness, is ultimately the only thing that is, but that it manifests itself in different ways. So what I try to do is look at these different manifestations (the red points), whether they be physical, mental, spiritual, concrete, abstract, or whatever, and show how they ultimately converge towards being (the blue point). The movement, if you like, is from my observation of various world phenomena, towards their belonging in the universal oneness.
Suppose that I call OM "an investigation into the meaning of being", and that being is the oneness. Then, it's clear that being is the ending point, but if being is the oneness, then the ending point is one, and it is the starting points that are many. Hence, I use Ni over Ne.
Last edited: