INFJ or INTJ?

Yeah, sometimes I suck at what I do. At least now I know why.

I wouldn't say that necessarily. You definitely offer an important viewpoint that is necessary to keep everything aligned.
I don't exactly agree with the idea of "good enough" in the work environment...
but it is sort of how things tend to operate so it's important to have a bit of adaptability ^_^
 
Spoken like a true boss
Your right but not quite. Good call. It’s the body language of a retired ‘boss’ after 3/4 bottle of lunchtime Cava at the end of a celebration lunch :tonguewink:

@Impact Character I don’t mean to sound dismissive or condescending- shouldn’t post after a drink or two. It’s more to do with concern about the mbti models. I think that inductive and deductive thinking are both used together by our greatest creative thinkers. They create insights from what is experienced then they test it by seeing if the insights work then they refine the insights with the feedback and iterate. It’s hard to split the greatest of them into TI and Te thinkers. They seem to use both with great facility.
 
Your right but not quite. Good call. It’s the body language of a retired ‘boss’ after 3/4 bottle of lunchtime Cava at the end of a celebration lunch :tonguewink:

Hahaha good on ya. I meant it as a positive anyway.
 
Your right but not quite. Good call. It’s the body language of a retired ‘boss’ after 3/4 bottle of lunchtime Cava at the end of a celebration lunch :tonguewink:

@Impact Character I don’t mean to sound dismissive or condescending- shouldn’t post after a drink or two. It’s more to do with concern about the mbti models. I think that inductive and deductive thinking are both used together by our greatest creative thinkers. They create insights from what is experienced then they test it by seeing if the insights work then they refine the insights with the feedback and iterate. It’s hard to split the greatest of them into TI and Te thinkers. They seem to use both with great facility.

Positive skepticism, right John?

The MBTI is useful in that it is fairly comprehensive of personality variation, and tends to be tautologically true based on the way the tests are designed. It also has a lot of empirical-anecdotal observation built into it by now, which makes it a good speculative system.

However, it is not science and just like any speculative system we can see at the edges where it tries to force reality rather unsuccessfully into its categories based seemingly on the desire for nothing more than symmetry. Consequently, it is as capable of generating bullshit as anything else.

I agree with your doubts here on the Ti/Te thing, John, but I wouldn't worry too much if this is the right place to express those doubts. I don't really think that anyone here is an 'MBTI zealot'.
 
Positive skepticism, right John?

The MBTI is useful in that it is fairly comprehensive of personality variation, and tends to be tautologically true based on the way the tests are designed. It also has a lot of empirical-anecdotal observation built into it by now, which makes it a good speculative system.

However, it is not science and just like any speculative system we can see at the edges where it tries to force reality rather unsuccessfully into its categories based seemingly on the desire for nothing more than symmetry. Consequently, it is as capable of generating bullshit as anything else.

I agree with your doubts here on the Ti/Te thing, John, but I wouldn't worry too much if this is the right place to express those doubts. I don't really think that anyone here is an 'MBTI zealot'.
That’s spot on Deleted member 16771- the trouble is after a few drinks my Fe either goes down the drain or becomes hyperactive. Neither is a pretty sight.
 
fiuf.. gimme a sec to keep up with your posts!

Thank you so much. I think I know now why I sometimes have a different logic. I always want to make sure all eventualities are covered in the software we design. My programmers often look at me like I am not from this earth. They want to make it work and nothing more. I guess thats Te vs Ti then.
tbh I know exactly what you mean. I have two people very close to me in my life that would go Te and I can see how our work together truely is enriched by those differences and at the same time.. I remember certain supposely Te people where communication didn't work out (yes, in both examples are programmers included ;)

Yeah, sometimes I suck at what I do. At least now I know why.
:/ don't go there.. we cannot be good in everything.. nobody can.. if you could do everything like a pro.. there was no need for teamwork of any kind anymore :)


This feels good as level one insight. What worries me is that inductive and deductive thinking are bound together in an intimate dance that in the end can only be separated conceptually. In practice they have to be both applied by a creative investigator in rapid evolutionary succession if they are to creatively bring new insight to birth.

@Impact Character I don’t mean to sound dismissive or condescending- shouldn’t post after a drink or two. It’s more to do with concern about the mbti models. I think that inductive and deductive thinking are both used together by our greatest creative thinkers. They create insights from what is experienced then they test it by seeing if the insights work then they refine the insights with the feedback and iterate. It’s hard to split the greatest of them into TI and Te thinkers. They seem to use both with great facility.

most important first: Thank you John for keeping a caring eye on this. :) Please, don't worry (too much) over misstepping or being too critical.
I really just thought it was kind of sweet illustrated and a nice different angle to show not tell. Also, I totally agree.. MBTI taken beside.. I grew up with my older brother who always was on the other end of everything but we managed to meet in the middle and always had so much better ideas together. It's just still interesting to see those things a bit differently every now and then ..you know :) (so that is my very familiar experience of throwing everything together to be as great as possible.)

I believe in learning the language of other people (as well as their ways of thinking or perceiving) at least as much as it is possible for me. Nothing is better or weaker.. nothing is devilish or good... it always depends on how you weild what you hold..

Positive skepticism, right John?

The MBTI is useful in that it is fairly comprehensive of personality variation, and tends to be tautologically true based on the way the tests are designed. It also has a lot of empirical-anecdotal observation built into it by now, which makes it a good speculative system.

However, it is not science and just like any speculative system we can see at the edges where it tries to force reality rather unsuccessfully into its categories based seemingly on the desire for nothing more than symmetry. Consequently, it is as capable of generating bullshit as anything else.

I agree with your doubts here on the Ti/Te thing, John, but I wouldn't worry too much if this is the right place to express those doubts. I don't really think that anyone here is an 'MBTI zealot'.

Anyways.. agreed to everything above ;)
Terminology systems taught me you get stuff only clean and neat if you cut things a bit even. There is always a bit of a loss..

So, @John K be joyful and drink up, my friend! ^^
 
Happy birthday John, post as much as you like :grinning:

I wouldn't say that necessarily. You definitely offer an important viewpoint that is necessary to keep everything aligned.
I don't exactly agree with the idea of "good enough" in the work environment...
but it is sort of how things tend to operate so it's important to have a bit of adaptability ^_^

:/ don't go there.. we cannot be good in everything.. nobody can.. if you could do everything like a pro.. there was no need for teamwork of any kind anymore

Don't worry, I wasn't that serious. It is a small frustration sometimes but I am grounded enough to know that trying to make things perfect or trying to rebuild an entire application because I think it is fundamentally better isn't always the best thing to do. But I also know that 'my way' sometimes is a hell of a lot better - proven fact :grinning:.
 
Happy birthday John, post as much as you like :grinning:





Don't worry, I wasn't that serious. It is a small frustration sometimes but I am grounded enough to know that trying to make things perfect or trying to rebuild an entire application because I think it is fundamentally better isn't always the best thing to do. But I also know that 'my way' sometimes is a hell of a lot better - proven fact :grinning:.
Thanks Headstorm!

I share your experience with IT folks. They don’t appreciate unmediated Ni. It needs to be translated into T-speak and structured into the plan. Boring but necessary.
 
Don't worry, I wasn't that serious. It is a small frustration sometimes but I am grounded enough to know that trying to make things perfect or trying to rebuild an entire application because I think it is fundamentally better isn't always the best thing to do. But I also know that 'my way' sometimes is a hell of a lot better - proven fact :grinning:.

Hmh, I had a discussion once about a software.. basically it was about why I don't always need to iterate _everything_ in case I can point out deal-breaking flaws early on. (thoroughly.. of course.. )
There is a lot to gain with rapid prototyping but it needs to be done right or at the right time to be really efficient. (iterating every shit is not "efficient".. sorry getting a bit frustrated now as well.. grrr..haha)
 
Hmh, I had a discussion once about a software.. basically it was about why I don't always need to iterate _everything_ in case I can point out deal-breaking flaws early on. (thoroughly.. of course.. )
There is a lot to gain with rapid prototyping but it needs to be done right or at the right time to be really efficient. (iterating every shit is not "efficient".. sorry getting a bit frustrated now as well.. grrr..haha)
Dead right! The purpose needs to be clear- are you iterating to establish user requirements or to create a stable app. These two must never been done at the same time and eventually there comes a time when straight old fashioned engineering needs to take the place of trial and error.
 
Dead right! The purpose needs to be clear- are you iterating to establish user requirements or to create a stable app.

I'm gonna need you to get offline and iterate more happiness and celebratory motions
Happy Birthday! ^_^
 
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