INFJ, The Manipulator?

[HunterO]

I think perhaps INTJs may think that because with them you always know where you stand with them. They don't like telling untruths to avoid hurting people's feelings- whereas people who are Fe dominant, may hide their true intentions out of fear of hurting people, hence why INTJs may think INFJs are manipulative.

I'm not sure this is always the case though. To be honest, I think anyone can be manipulative and have bad intentions if they have a strong enough motive. Most INTJs though are motivated by knowledge, so they can come off as a**holes, but you can always count on them to be there during the hard times, and in the end, that is what counts.

 

[Delta]

Anyhow, I found the INTJ forum very whiny in my 10 minute browse before coming here, so I'm not bothered what they are saying. It was about who is the smartest or most offensive for the sake of it on that forum.

.. Wasn't even funny observations either, proper killer remarks.

So, ce la vie.

 

[muir]

Everyone manipulates

Typing on a keyboard is manipualting the key pads

Mankind is a the arch manipulator...it is what distinguishes us from other animals

We manipulated wood to create fire

We manipulate each others actions through language for example we try and pursuade people of our viewpoints

If we smile or hug someone we manipulate their emotions, if we are mean we manipulate their emotions

We affect people just be being around them

So everyone manipulates

What matters is the intent behind various manipulations

I do not believe the INFJ type is that affected by the desire for power and influence. i think ENTJ's and INTJ's are more likely to seek power and influence

The will to power has a tendancy to encourage negative forms of manipulation

INFJ's on the other hand are more likely to be motivated by a desire to assist someone even to the point of it having a personal cost to themselves (hence their martyr reputation)

 

[La Sagna]

Everyone manipulates

Typing on a keyboard is manipualting the key pads

Mankind is a the arch manipulator...it is what distinguishes us from other animals

We manipulated wood to create fire

We manipulate each others actions through language for example we try and pursuade people of our viewpoints

If we smile or hug someone we manipulate their emotions, if we are mean we manipulate their emotions

We affect people just be being around them

So everyone manipulates

What matters is the intent behind various manipulations

I do not believe the INFJ type is that affected by the desire for power and influence. i think ENTJ's and INTJ's are more likely to seek power and influence

The will to power has a tendancy to encourage negative forms of manipulation

INFJ's on the other hand are more likely to be motivated by a desire to assist someone even to the point of it having a personal cost to themselves (hence their martyr reputation)

You're speaking of a different definition of 'manipulation' than what the op was speaking of:

1.influencing or attempting to influence the behavior or emotions of others for one’s own purposes:
a manipulative boss.

2.
of or pertaining to manipulation of objects or parts of the body; serving to manipulate :
spinal manipulative therapy.

Obviously we manipulate objects, but the idea of being 'manipulative' suggests a selfish motive and I believe that you can give hugs and try to make others feel better or give your viewpoint on a subject without having selfish motives. That may be rare but I know it exists. I have known some very selfless people.

 

[muir]

You're speaking of a different definition of 'manipulation' than what the op was speaking of:



Obviously we manipulate objects, but the idea of being 'manipulative' suggests a selfish motive and I believe that you can give hugs and try to make others feel better or give your viewpoint on a subject without having selfish motives. That may be rare but I know it exists. I have known some very selfless people.

No i mentioned emoitonal manipulation

Also the manipulation of matter can also be used to manipulate peoples emotions

The point being we are affecting other people all the time in multiple ways, but what matters is the intent

 

[La Sagna]

No i mentioned emoitonal manipulation

Also the manipulation of matter can also be used to manipulate peoples emotions

The point being we are affecting other people all the time in multiple ways, but what matters is the intent

Yes but when somebody calls someone 'manipulative' they usually mean it in a negative way. I've never heard somebody use that as a positive or neutral description.

 

[Delta]

As an INFJ I have found people have tried to bind me into proving I am a 'good person'. This is the gateway for TRUE manipulators imo. Seen it a thousand times.

Nah, there is such a thing as positive manipulation... or to develop ones extroverted thinking skills (I think that is the term) which makes life way better as an INFJ.

.. I already know I am a good person and that isn't going to change.

 

[CogentPursuit]

Though, ESFJs & ESFPs seem more manipulative to me, through phishing, guilt-tripping, passive-aggression, and sugary-sweetness (as the knife plunges into your back.)

They also seem less aware of what they are doing. They believe it is their right and it is good for them to push all these emotions on you.


***
I like to influence others in the way I think their future selves would be proud of as long as it doesn't have an ill affect on others. I don't think influencing them in the way I think best for them is appropriate.

 

[muir]

Yes but when somebody calls someone 'manipulative' they usually mean it in a negative way. I've never heard somebody use that as a positive or neutral description.

Yes and i'm saying that is a narrow way to view manipulations

For example someone might tell someone else a 'white lie' believeing its the best course of action to not hurt their feelings but then that person gets into a spot of bother because the person did not tell them the truth

What people think is the best thing to do sometimes is and sometimes isn't actually the best thing but their actions could be judged in terms of what their heart intended

 

[La Sagna]

Yes and i'm saying that is a narrow way to view manipulations

For example someone might tell someone else a 'white lie' believeing its the best course of action to not hurt their feelings but then that person gets into a spot of bother because the person did not tell them the truth

What people think is the best thing to do sometimes is and sometimes isn't actually the best thing but their actions could be judged in terms of what their heart intended

I agree with you. What we are disagreeing on is merely semantics.