INFJ versus ISFJ

arbygil said:
Here's one more (selfish) example. For the longest time I lived believing I was a concrete person. Even when I figured things out that stunned others, I just thought I was "really, really observant."

Then I entered the "real" world. :D

Some of my many, many jobs included climbing the ranks as an administrative assistant. But here's the funny part about that...I discovered that the higher I climbed the admin later, the worse I became. I could not handle all the detail-heavy projects and I'd miss key details. It all came to a head when I was an executive secretary for a major pharmaceutical company. Yikes. It...did not end well (long story).

After that and a few years of licking my wounds, I came to realize that no, I'm not as detail-oriented as I thought. Which lead me to take inventory of myself. I'd made a lot of bad assumptions.

When you start living free and being yourself, well...you get to be the person you were always meant to be. And that's a beautiful thing.
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That's nice. I remember from your other posts you have a really cool job. I didn't think your post was selfish :)
 
When I first started learning about this Myers-briggs stuff, I started with just reading the descriptions. I discovered that to understand the different types well, it takes experience with them. At least that's how my Ni works.

I had an ISFJ manager, and now work with 2 ISFJs at a crisis center where I volunteer. I heard that NT's and SJ's don't get along, and in my experience that's true. I see that ISFJ's are very nice people, but they're also very aggressive in how they uphold tradition. It's almost dangerous how blindly obedient they can be. They believe what somebody says based on the person's formal position without critically evaluating or even understanding. If in a position of power, they'll pretend to know what they're talking about even when they don't. If you ask them "why", don't expect them to know, or admit that they don't know.

I deal with them simply by "gaming" them. They are easy to manipulate. There's no other way when somebody in a position of power pushes you into a corner. If I'm straight up and honest about what I think, they won't get it, they'll think I'm belligerent and/or incompetent, and they'll treat me unfairly using their power in the organization. Sometimes you have to use power in the form of manipulation to protect yourself. Formally, this manipulation is known as "communication skills" or "people skills". It sounds stupid because it is.

ISFJ's will never understand. In that way they will never be my peer. I think SJ's in general are not really "people" in the fullest sense. Because they can't see further than 3 feet in front of their own faces, they'll always just be pawns. Sorry if this sounds cold. It's not that I don't like them, this is just how I see them.

INFJ's are more open-minded. They'll understand and be able to articulately discuss if you challenge tradition, or ask them "why" questions. They have more insight and read between the lines. If you ever talk with one, they probably won't bother you much, whereas ISFJ's will feel like an incredible annoyance.
 
myst said:
That's nice. I remember from your other posts you have a really cool job. I didn't think your post was selfish :)
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Thank you, myst! I have the cool job now, but before my current job I had many little stressful ones.

I still don't think I've found THE job, because I don't think I'll be totally happy until I write full time. But that manifestation will come in due time, too.
 
arbygil said:
Thank you, myst! I have the cool job now, but before my current job I had many little stressful ones.

I still don't think I've found THE job, because I don't think I'll be totally happy until I write full time. But that manifestation will come in due time, too.
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That's nice you know what you want to do next, too! I'm pondering that for myself. I love writing too but don't think it's something I'll do as a job. I'm thinking I might need to develop my Se technology skills enough so I know what i'm talking about to advocate for policies for technology to help people. I'm not quite sure how or if all that can happen, but time will tell.
 
pierce said:
I deal with them simply by "gaming" them. They are easy to manipulate. There's no other way when somebody in a position of power pushes you into a corner. If I'm straight up and honest about what I think, they won't get it, they'll think I'm belligerent and/or incompetent, and they'll treat me unfairly using their power in the organization. Sometimes you have to use power in the form of manipulation to protect yourself. Formally, this manipulation is known as "communication skills" or "people skills". It sounds stupid because it is.
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Yikes!

ISFJ's will never understand. In that way they will never be my peer. I think SJ's in general are not really "people" in the fullest sense. Because they can't see further than 3 feet in front of their own faces, they'll always just be pawns. Sorry if this sounds cold. It's not that I don't like them, this is just how I see them.
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INFJ's are more open-minded. They'll understand and be able to articulately discuss if you challenge tradition, or ask them "why" questions. They have more insight and read between the lines. If you ever talk with one, they probably won't bother you much, whereas ISFJ's will feel like an incredible annoyance.
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Interesting the how differently N or S can cause you to be seen.

Based on what pierce is saying about ISFJ's.... I think I definitely have S moments... hmmm ISFJ.... hmmm.
 
How I see it is this way, we INFJ's and ISFJ's both share Ti and Fe, meaning that how we apply judgement is similar, we care mostly about global issues and how it affects the masses rather than our personal self more often, and we tend to be analytical, and can come off as ''critical'' or ''perfectionist'' like mind. But the way we perceive the world is completley different. We are intuition dominant, they are sensing, and we are sensing inferior while they are intuition inferior, not only that but how we apply our intuition is introverted(Ni) and how ISFJ's apply it is Extroverted(Ne), how we apply Sensin is extroverted(Se) and how ISFJ's apply sensing is introverted(Si), this causing major differences on how we perceive the world, which is why I think INFJ's even though have similar ways of applying things they usually come into little agreement on how this came to be. Major differences between INFJ's and ISFJ's is that an ISFJ is very detailed oriented, analyzing every single bit of data, this process usually irritates us INFJ's as we tend to view things in more genral terms, ISFJ's excel in more practical areas and can excel at the gathering and sytemazing of facts, while INFJ's is concerned with the big pciture, exploration, self-discovery etc, by nature us Nnd to excel in areas that involve creativity, imagination and such processes, while S's in detailed oriented tasks. Our Sensing is inferior, and since we have inferior sensing we using our Se but it doesnt always come out the way we want, like the article posted if we use our inferior process which is probobly not developed at the moment(it takes time to develop processes) then we are prone to use it in an unhealthy way, we can get obsses with detail, physical indulges, and constantly feel irritated while using this process same thing with INFJ's and Ne, they can apply a multiple set of random ideas and interconnect them but if used to much it can irritate them as they need to learn to develop such process..
 
How I see it is this way, we INFJ's and ISFJ's both share Ti and Fe, meaning that how we apply judgement is similar, we care mostly about global issues and how it affects the masses rather than our personal self more often, and we tend to be analytical, and can come off as ''critical'' or ''perfectionist'' like mind. But the way we perceive the world is completley different. We are intuition dominant, they are sensing, and we are sensing inferior while they are intuition inferior, not only that but how we apply our intuition is introverted(Ni) and how ISFJ's apply it is Extroverted(Ne), how we apply Sensin is extroverted(Se) and how ISFJ's apply sensing is introverted(Si), this causing major differences on how we perceive the world, which is why I think INFJ's even though have similar ways of applying things they usually come into little agreement on how this came to be. Major differences between INFJ's and ISFJ's is that an ISFJ is very detailed oriented, analyzing every single bit of data, this process usually irritates us INFJ's as we tend to view things in more genral terms, ISFJ's excel in more practical areas and can excel at the gathering and sytemazing of facts, while INFJ's is concerned with the big pciture, exploration, self-discovery etc, by nature us Nnd to excel in areas that involve creativity, imagination and such processes, while S's in detailed oriented tasks. Our Sensing is inferior, and since we have inferior sensing we using our Se but it doesnt always come out the way we want, like the article posted if we use our inferior process which is probobly not developed at the moment(it takes time to develop processes) then we are prone to use it in an unhealthy way, we can get obsses with detail, physical indulges, and constantly feel irritated while using this process same thing with INFJ's and Ne, they can apply a multiple set of random ideas and interconnect them but if used to much it can irritate them as they need to learn to develop such process..
 
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I can imagine how difficult it would be for NT types to genuinely understand and respect the value of SFJ types. It can be SO DIFFICULT to understand people so different from onesself.... aaagh.... I am rather struggling to do that myself, although with a different type.
 
pierce said:
I think SJ's in general are not really "people" in the fullest sense. Because they can't see further than 3 feet in front of their own faces, they'll always just be pawns. Sorry if this sounds cold. It's not that I don't like them, this is just how I see them.
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Ni tells both the INTJ and the INFJ to be yourself. That is diametrically opposed to the SJ way of life : be like everyone else, follow tradition, don't question it. Given that nearly half of all people are an SJ of one sort or another, you can start to see why society is the way it is, and why INxJ types don't seem to relate to many/most people.
 
Quinlan said:
I have a feeling my mum is ISFJ, if anyone knows them well, is it an ISFJ trait to have very focused sympathy? Like my mum gets really sympathetic towards one or two people (or maybe a certain group of people) and goes out of her way to help them but in doing so completely forgets how her actions could effect others outside of her narrow focus. It's like a laserbeam, whereas say an esfj will have symapthy/empathy like a floodlight.
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This is totally my mother.
 
myst said:
I can imagine how difficult it would be for NT types to genuinely understand and respect the value of SFJ types. It can be SO DIFFICULT to understand people so different from onesself.... aaagh.... I am rather struggling to do that myself, although with a different type.
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Hmm. Tempting to respect SJ's as simply "different". As congenial, inclusive, and socially acceptable as this belief would be, I don't think I can revoke my value judgment of "inferior". It's like saying that a chimpanzee just has a "different" personality and outlook, but really the chimpanzee is just relatively stupid even though it can climb trees and balance and do certain things better than humans. I don't mean these SJ's any harm or ill will, and I wouldn't tell an SJ what I'm saying here, but I am an incredibly judgmental person and this is genuinely what makes sense to me from a place of honesty.

Introspiritual said:
Ni tells both the INTJ and the INFJ to be yourself. That is diametrically opposed to the SJ way of life : be like everyone else, follow tradition, don't question it. Given that nearly half of all people are an SJ of one sort or another, you can start to see why society is the way it is, and why INxJ types don't seem to relate to many/most people.
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Smart. Very smart.
 
pierce said:
Hmm. Tempting to respect SJ's as simply "different". As congenial, inclusive, and socially acceptable as this belief would be, I don't think I can revoke my value judgment of "inferior". It's like saying that a chimpanzee just has a "different" personality and outlook, but really the chimpanzee is just relatively stupid even though it can climb trees and balance and do certain things better than humans. I don't mean these SJ's any harm or ill will, and I wouldn't tell an SJ what I'm saying here, but I am an incredibly judgmental person and this is genuinely what makes sense to me from a place of honesty.
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I see it that way too, at times, but I generally don't like seeing it that way and I don't. One thing is, I don't like judging people by whether they are stupid or not. I work with people who have cognitive disabilities and I think it's possible to genuinely respect them as equal human beings. (Sorry this probably sounds harsh, but I think judging people as inferior based on intelligence alone is prejudiced.) One of the ways I experience some of my friends and acquaintances who have cognitive disabilities is as emotionally "intelligent" people. Although I may not be able to communicate with them verbally the way I do with other people, they sometimes seem to pick up on the emotional meaning of situations more readily than people who are more caught up in verbal communication (like me), and I can learn from their perceptions and reactions. I pick up some meaningful insights that way.
 
This is an interesting subject to me. (I responded to the longest thread of this subject)

myst said:
I can imagine how difficult it would be for NT types to genuinely understand and respect the value of SFJ types. It can be SO DIFFICULT to understand people so different from onesself....
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It can be, but... one of the wittiest, funniest, highly intelligent, and even most profane women I've ever had the pleasure to know was a self-identified ISFJ. I tried several times to get her to question whether she was in fact INFJ, but she always managed to shoot it down for one reason or another.

She wasn't very detail-oriented however, and I see that cropping up as a big factor in differentiating the two types. If you ignore that, how else would you decide ISFJ vs. INFJ?
 
MacGuffin said:
how else would you decide ISFJ vs. INFJ?
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INFJs very often seem drawn to fantasy, ISFJs do not.

This is not a rule by any means, just an overall trend.
 
Fantastical fantasy! Heh, I don't know everyone has their own tastes. Just stuff that is right outside of reality.

There be dragons here.
 
Many seem to be at least interested. Not obsessed like NTP folk =P
 
Not sure about that one specifically. Some like it, some don't. I do personally, but I haven't observed a trend toward or against.

You should make some polls. Might be interesting.
 
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