INFJs and internet relationships/LDRs

[Isis]

Quite a story, Wyst. Thank you so much for sharing. I can certainly relate to the fear of rejection. I hope you can find some closure in writing all of this down. Dwelling on past mistakes in not a healthy approach. Learn from them and move on.

I haven't gotten to that place yet where I can trust that someone could really love me like that.

This resonates with me so much that it's scary. I haven't gotten to that place either. I have so many doubts and I often let them get to me even if I know how harmful these thoughts are to me. I still let them take over me. But I also have hope and I haven't given up on anything yet.

You have strength within you to change things. Keep on hoping even if it seems really difficult.

 

[Wyst]

Thanks, Lullabuoy.

The story actually does have a (somewhat) happy ending.

 

[Orion]

I would rep you again Wyst but the damn system won't allow it!

Your last post, my initial reaction was:

"So you let a whole good thing go because of some anxious/scary thoughts? You didn't go through with it because you had doubts in your mind? You just stopped at the thought of it being quite difficult."

But then, as an INFJ, I know and relate to how negative thoughts or "fantasies" can just eat us up from within so it's not hard to see why you broke it off. But it's clear you regret that decision and the fact you got that far with Karen any way, showed you had a whole load of courage. I will definitely take your advice to heart.

 

[Wyst]

Your last post, my initial reaction was:

"So you let a whole good thing go because of some anxious/scary thoughts? You didn't go through with it because you had doubts in your mind? You just stopped at the thought of it being quite difficult."

Heh.. I was completely expecting that initial reaction. My actions were pretty childish and self-centered, weren't they.

 

[Questingpoet]

I can't say I like the ending, or approve of your actions. The only true regrets in life are the things we DON"T do, the things we don't try. You gave up on (for you anyways) true love because of fear. For me that is 10 times as bad as trying and failing. You made a bunch of assumptions about her and where your relationship was going without even talking to her about it! And without telling her the truth.

You probably hurt her terribly. I have to be honest and say I am very ashamed for you here. My only hope is you can learn from this and not make the same mistake if you get another chance. The big problem is life often doesn't give second chances. I hope if you get one, you handle it much differently.

 

[testing]

....Completely lacking confidence in my ability to support just myself and her on my paycheck, let alone kids, and adopting a kid, which is a very expensive process, I felt my mental brakes starting to kick in.

My worst fear has been and still is that when I meet someone and we get married that she'll want to have kids and 'boom', suddenly I'm not her lover anymore, I'm just the source of sperm and a paycheck to make her dreams of being a mother a reality. This plagued me continuously throughout the day.

.... I think that love is a two-way street of unconditional trust. If you love someone, you'll be real with you really are and how you really feel. Despite your shortcomings and ugliness as a person, they love you back when none of it matters to them. I haven't gotten to that place yet where I can trust that someone could really love me like that.

I just wanted to say that I read & enjoyed your stories, and that you are not the only guy who has these fears, and remember, any woman you would actually want to be with is not going to regard you as a sperm donor/breadwinner, any more than you would see her as a babymaker/housecleaner. Yes, kids do take a lot of attention, no doubt, so I understand your anxiety. But couples are supposed to work together as a team, and it is supposed to be mutually supportive. Things do change after kids but not to the point that someone who loves you before will stop loving you afterwards.

Might be women like that out there but hopefully you have the good sense not to fall in love with one of them.

Are you going to call her? Maybe you should... if you are still thinking about her after two years...

 

[Wyst]

Thanks, Janet. I know you're right. Like I said in one of my earlier posts - I still haven't gotten to that point where knowing that becomes -believing- that. It's a fear-based dilemma and, unfortunately, one that I need to deal with before I should be trusted with anyone's heart/feelings.

Are you going to call her? Maybe you should... if you are still thinking about her after two years...

Ah... hmm.

Back in October, I wrote her a letter simply telling her what was really going on with me. I made no excuses and told her the truth about all the lies I had told her. I apologized for all the lies, my cowardice, and self-centeredness and asked for her forgiveness.

She wrote me back a month later and said she forgave me - something I didn't expect. I had obviously hurt her very deeply. It turns out that I was right that she had been beating herself up based upon my lies. She did forgive me and said she was glad that I told her what had really happened and that it was freeing to know she was not the one to blame.

That being said, there will not be any further contact between us. We are in different places now, my own issues being serious problems in and of themselves.

 

[testing]

)-: I don't believe that, about your not being able to be trusted with people or having issues that are sooooo dreadfully serious. And I think you handled it very well, writing her a letter like you did and coming clean about what really happened. You are not the first guy to have freaked out in this situation and you won't be the last. At least you have the insight to understand your motivations! ((((hugs))))) You just need someone very patient who's not afraid to work and who likes men.

 

[youhemmein]

"and who likes men."

I lol'd. Because that's...funny?

And also, yes, if you intend to date a woman, her liking men would be helpful.

 

[Wyst]

)-: I don't believe that, about your not being able to be trusted with people or having issues that are sooooo dreadfully serious. And I think you handled it very well, writing her a letter like you did and coming clean about what really happened. You are not the first guy to have freaked out in this situation and you won't be the last. At least you have the insight to understand your motivations! ((((hugs))))) You just need someone very patient who's not afraid to work and who likes men.

See, that's the thing. I don't want my wife to have to work in the future. I'm already in a much better job (paycheck-wise) than I was before. Granted, it isn't in California.. but what QP said in his post is absolutely correct. My decision to end things was based on assumptions that I was unwilling to address.

Rather than deal with those assumptions head on, I ran away from the situation. It's like a hit-and-run in a relationship. People like that shouldn't drive (or be in relationships) because they're just going to hurt anyone they get close to.

 

[testing]

"and who likes men."

I lol'd. Because that's...funny?

And also, yes, if you intend to date a woman, her liking men would be helpful.

I said it because I know plenty of women who don't! LOL! And I mean that... not just lesbians, either. And I was also trying to point out in a sort of euphemistic way that it should be one who likes sex with men, specifically, since one of the fears was that that would tank after kids. Seems simple but you'd be amazed how many nice guys overlook this requirement. Really!

Ahem... I am trying to edit this to make more sense and it is not working.

Advice still stands, however!

 

[Wyst]

"and who likes men."

I lol'd. Because that's...funny?

And also, yes, if you intend to date a woman, her liking men would be helpful.

I raised an eye-brow at this too...
I would hope this quality would not be in question..

 

[Orion]

I raised an eye-brow at this too...
I would hope this quality would not be in question..

Lol, that's what I thought!

 

[testing]

^^^ really?
hm. maybe I am the only one who notices this. Men like to date women who don't like men. Not really... you know, like them. As in enjoy thier company....
???
Am blathering, sorry.

 

[Orion]

^^^ really?
hm. maybe I am the only one who notices this. Men like to date women who don't like men. Not really... you know, like them. As in enjoy thier company....
???
Am blathering, sorry.

Can you explain how that works? Why would a guy go out with a woman... who doesn't like, not only him, but men in general?

 

[testing]

Oh, well...

I'll try to explain. Of course, the guys don't usually seem to realize that they are dating women who don't like men, because the women don't usually come out and say "I don't like men" but they do, nevertheless, have a very negative and hostile view towards men, even if they find them attractive.

For instance, I know a woman who only dates a man after she runs a financial background check on him first. That is not someone who really LIKES men. (Or anyone.) But she's damn good at faking it, and is attractive.

I hope this sort of makes sense.

 

[Wyst]

Can you explain how that works? Why would a guy go out with a woman... who doesn't like, not only him, but men in general?

I know this is false (in my head) but I can't get around the fact this appears to be because women want to have families and not necessarily a husband once they get the family.

Is a woman that truly desires a life-long companion and friend primarily and a family secondarily THAT hard to find?

 

[Wyst]

Oh, well...

I'll try to explain. Of course, the guys don't usually seem to realize that they are dating women who don't like men, because the women don't usually come out and say "I don't like men" but they do, nevertheless, have a very negative and hostile view towards men, even if they find them attractive.

For instance, I know a woman who only dates a man after she runs a financial background check on him first. That is not someone who really LIKES men. (Or anyone.) But she's damn good at faking it, and is attractive.

I hope this sort of makes sense.

See - this is exactly what I'm talking about... I wonder how you can find out what kind of woman she is BEFORE you marry her and make a huge mistake.

 

[testing]

I know this is false (in my head) but I can't get around the fact this appears to be because women want to have families and not necessarily a husband once they get the family.

Is a woman that truly desires a life-long companion and friend primarily and a family secondarily THAT hard to find?

I don't know... certainly seems like the kind of thing anyone would want (it's what I want -- and have.)

I think it sometimes appears that way because families/work/kids are work, and lots of it, and there is often not a lot of time left over to focus on the couple. But it doesn't necessarily mean that women don't love their husbands and want his friendship, companionship and love. And of course, after childbirth, women's bodies and hormones are focused on raising babies, not making more, so their poor husbands do get temporarily shunted aside. But in a true loving relationship this is only a season, it is only a phase. You grow together.

Then there are the women who truly do see men as a meal ticket... but I am not talking about those.

 

[Orion]

I know this is false (in my head) but I can't get around the fact this appears to be because women want to have families and not necessarily a husband once they get the family.

Is a woman that truly desires a life-long companion and friend primarily and a family secondarily THAT hard to find?

That's an interesting anxiety but I think that is being very paranoid. As far as I know, a husband is essential in creating that 'family' that a normal woman would want. Why on earth a woman would marry you JUST to have kids is beyond me and, I think, slightly ridiculous. Okay it could happen, but the likelihood of you landing yourself a woman like that is probably very slim, considering, as an INFJ, you won't let someone in so easily anyway.