INFJs and internet relationships/LDRs

[Siela25]

Thanks, so much Siela. Interesting.
So, fear is only what me make it/how much power we let it have over us.

Allow me to play devil's advocate for just bit - I'm curious as to what reaction I might get...
So, if the future is created, ultimately by action and is a place that is created (in part) by my actions, are you saying that I can simply 'write fear off' as though it didn't matter, saying, "I really am apprehensive about this situation... but I'm throwing caution to the wind and will plow forward regardless. Afterall, I am the captain of my destiny, I'll make it happen".

Granted, I exaggerated a lot above.. but put practically, it'd look like this, "Well, I'm not going to get over my fears unless I deal with them, so never mind that I feel like damaged goods. It's time to start dating again!".

I don't think this is what you're saying - but I'd like to understand.

Hehehhe You're so funny Wyst, "captain of my destiny". You're absolutely right to question the idea I presented, so I'll clarify. The future is not created by action. The future is created by thought, and action is manifested thought.

For example: Present Thought- "I'm hungry"
Future Action- "I will eat"

If you weren't hungry (present), you wouldn't eat (future). So, if you have a present thought that says "I'm not sure of this relationship, but I want to try and learn", the future action would be "I will communicate with my partner and together we will strengthen our relationship." This scenario creates confidence.

A scenario that creates fear, which is what you're referring to above, is: Present thought--I'm not sure of this relationship, and I want to end it before I hurt her.
Future action--The relationship with my gf will end. I will stay single to protect myself and others from harm.

This scenario creates fear and is a self-fulfilling prophesy. And once again, you don't get over fears because fears are natural. What you want is to feel confidence, which is felt in the absence of fear, but not the elimination of it. Fear is valuable, fear is useful, fear is a tool, but fear can control your life if you let it.

 

[Siela25]

So it's wrong to at least have the expectation that you could meet someone and be with them for the rest of your life?

The expectation yes, the desire no. You see, whether you expect it or not, has nothing to do with what occurs. You can expect a million dollar check in the mail, but doesn't mean you'll get it.

On the other hand, you can desire a million dollar check in the mail, and present actions can be oriented to make that check a future reality.

It's the same with relationships. ETA: First you have desire, then intent, then manifestation, thenexpectation. When you walk, you expect your legs will carry your forward. That's because as a baby you desired to walk, you had the intent to walk (as you crawled and later wobbled across the floor), you finally walked (haltingly, but it got better with time ), and then expected to be able to walk.

So when you wrote "expectation" above, it's more like "desire" because the life partner you want hasn't yet arrived.

 

[Gaze]

The expectation yes, the desire no.

. . .

It's the same with relationships.

Disagree. Nothing is wrong with having an expectation that something will happen. It's a part of what we call hope. If we didn't have hope which on some level includes the possibility that something will occur, then we'd all give up and refuse to live our lives. Expectation is a part of living and thriving. It energizes us and gives us vision, something to work towards.

 

[Wyst]

Hehehhe You're so funny Wyst, "captain of my destiny". You're absolutely right to question the idea I presented, so I'll clarify. The future is not created by action. The future is created by thought, and action is manifested thought.

For example: Present Thought- "I'm hungry"
Future Action- "I will eat"

If you weren't hungry (present), you wouldn't eat (future). So, if you have a present thought that says "I'm not sure of this relationship, but I want to try and learn", the future action would be "I will communicate with my partner and together we will strengthen our relationship." This scenario creates confidence.

A scenario that creates fear, which is what you're referring to above, is: Present thought--I'm not sure of this relationship, and I want to end it before I hurt her.
Future action--The relationship with my gf will end. I will stay single to protect myself and others from harm.

This scenario creates fear and is a self-fulfilling prophesy. And once again, you don't get over fears because fears are natural. What you want is to feel confidence, which is felt in the absence of fear, but not the elimination of it. Fear is valuable, fear is useful, fear is a tool, but fear can control your life if you let it.

I get the feeling I'm talking with someone who is older than I am. But not old enough to be my mother.

So how about this:
Present thought - I'm afraid that I will hurt the next person I'm in a relationship with.
Future action -
a. Ask out the first person I'm interested in/attraced to.
b. Wait until the fear doesn't control me.
c. Be the fear out of control by being in a relationship
d. ???
e. None of the above.

I totally want to agree (fully comprehend) with what you're saying - so I hope you don't take my continued devil's advocacy the wrong way.. The below is absolutely what I want to stay away from:

A scenario that creates fear, which is what you're referring to above, is: Present thought--I'm not sure of this relationship, and I want to end it before I hurt her.
Future action--The relationship with my gf will end. I will stay single to protect myself and others from harm.

Thanks for the advice, Siela.

 

[Siela25]

Disagree. Nothing is wrong with having an expectation that something will happen. It's a part of what we call hope. If we didn't have hope which on some level includes the possibility that something will occur, then we'd all give up and refuse to live our lives. Expectation is a part of living and thriving. It energizes us and gives us vision, something to work towards.

ETA: First you have desire, then intent, then manifestation, thenexpectation. When you walk, you expect your legs will carry your forward. That's because as a baby you desired to walk, you had the intent to walk (as you crawled and later wobbled across the floor), you finally walked (haltingly, but it got better with time ), and then expected to be able to walk.

So when you wrote "expectation" above, it's more like "desire" because the life partner you want hasn't yet arrived.

(Copied from above)

Expectation is not the same as hope. Expectation is anticipation based upon what has already occurred, what one deems possible (i.e. the example of 'walking' above). Hope is a feeling of desire for something and confidence in the possibility of its fulfilment.

Hope indeed is "a part of living and thriving" which "energizes us and gives us vision, something to work towards."

 

[Orion]

The expectation yes, the desire no. You see, whether you expect it or not, has nothing to do with what occurs. You can expect a million dollar check in the mail, but doesn't mean you'll get it.

So when you wrote "expectation" above, it's more like "desire" because the life partner you want hasn't yet arrived.

I'm sorry but...

Instead of going off on a large post based on semantics, maybe you should've given me the benefit of the doubt and concluded that I wasn't placing much heavy weight of the word "expectation". Okay, so I desire to have a partner who I could reasonably expect to be with for the rest of my life. I would be fine with that and if that is the case then I disagree about your point of relationships being about experimentation. But at the same time, it's reasonable to this to happen as well. In this society, it's what is expected of us.

 

[Siela25]

I get the feeling I'm talking with someone who is older than I am. But not old enough to be my mother.

Do you wanna know my age? Or are you wagging your finger at me I'm no one's mother, that's for sure. I simply offer principles to live by that have transformed my life. Please do not mistake my offering for force feeding as that's not my intent. I don't desire anyone's agreement or disagreement, however, I do enjoy the discussion for the learning experience. I also think the people of this forum are truly fascinating--no matter what principles guide their lives.

Present thought - I'm afraid that I will hurt the next person I'm in a relationship with. Fear-based thought
Future action - Fear-based actions = will create more stress and problems
a. Ask out the first person I'm interested in/attraced to.
b. Wait until the fear doesn't control me.
c. Be the fear out of control by being in a relationship
d. ???
e. None of the above.

Example of Confidence-based Thought
Present thought- I want to appreciate myself and offer love not harm in my next relationship. Confidence-based thought

Future action- Confidence-based actions
a. Seek counseling to explore and address insecurities/fear.
b. Date a woman who understands and supports your journey of self-appreciation. Aren't we all always on one?
c. Read books that speak to you, on eliminating fears. Diligently apply the principles.
d. Go on a spiritual, self-renewal, self-awareness retreat to start fresh from a confident perspective.
e. Practice meditative prayer. Quiet the mind, re-connect with the part of you that knows your worth and value.
f. etc. etc. etc.

There are infinite actions to manifest a confidence-based thought = Happiness, or even fear-based thoughts = Misery.

 

[Siela25]

I'm sorry but...

Instead of going off on a large post based on semantics, maybe you should've given me the benefit of the doubt and concluded that I wasn't placing much heavy weight of the word "expectation". Okay, so I desire to have a partner who I could reasonably expect to be with for the rest of my life. I would be fine with that and if that is the case then I disagree about your point of relationships being about experimentation. But at the same time, it's reasonable to this to happen as well. In this society, it's what is expected of us.

I wasn't picking on your semantics; words are how we're communicating on this forum, and shades of meaning affect comprehension. So I'll use another word besides "experimentation" as that carries a negative connotation for you. I would say "The point of relationships is about the experience; the experience of giving and receiving love, not because one needs it from the other, but because they enjoy (ETA: sharing) it. This is my definition of love, and there are as many definitions as stars in the sky. However, it seems like we're saying the same thing, that we both value loving, long-term relationships. But I'm not putting words in your mouth .

 

[Orion]

I wasn't picking on your semantics; words are how we're communicating on this forum, and shades of meaning affect comprehension. So I'll use another word besides "experimentation" as that carries a negative connotation for you. I would say "The point of relationships is about the experience; the experience of giving and receiving love, not because one needs it from the other, but because they enjoy (ETA: sharing) it. This is my definition of love, and there are as many definitions as stars in the sky. However, it seems like we're saying the same thing, that we both value loving, long-term relationships. But I'm not putting words in your mouth .

So what does that have to do with going into a relationship with someone and desiring/expecting to be with them for a long time and NOT getting in a relationship with someone because you pick up some useful tips for the next one that comes along- which is what it sounds like you're proposing we should expect out of relationships with people.

 

[Siela25]

So what does that have to do with going into a relationship with someone and desiring/expecting to be with them for a long time and NOT getting in a relationship with someone because you pick up some useful tips for the next one that comes along- which is what it sounds like you're proposing we should expect out of relationships with people.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying. If you desire a long-term/committed/loving etc. etc. relationship with someone = Awesome.

If you don't = Super.

If you want to be a serial dater = Perfect.

If you want to be a serial monogamist = Splendid.

Anything in-between = Fantastic.

You initially asked me if it's "wrong" to "expect" a long-term relationship. I answered the question, but it's up to you to decide what's wrong or right for you.

 

[sumone]

Wyst, I just finished the story and have to say it was pretty brilliant. I love the way you put your thoughts on paper and so honestly.
It was brave of you to share the story, even two years later. I'm so glad you finally told her and that she forgave you. I truly, truly hope she'll find great happiness and contentment.
I have botched things up pretty badly in my life too a few times and I find it so hard, almost impossible to forgive myself.
And you know, your story is so similar to what happened to my husband and I before we got married. I was happy and everything was rosy with him when my thinking just spiralled, like yours did and just went out of control and in overdrive. I didn't see him for a couple of days and when we got together for dinner at a restaurant this was our conversation:

Him: "So, are you happy? Did you get whatever it was bothering you sorted out?"

Me: "Well, it's not good."

Him: "You have got to be kidding!? You are breaking up with me???"

Me: "Well, yes, I need time, I can't think, I'm full of doubts, I just want to be alone ..... "

Him: "NO!"

Me: "What?"

Him: "NO! This is ridiculous, I'm not letting you do this! I love you. You love me. I am not letting you go."

And he held that stance firmly and no matter what I said he just said it was nothing we couldn't overcome. His fight for me and his devotion were what won me over. But I could easily have lost him, like you lost Karen if he hadn't fought so hard.

Thanks for sharing the story. I could go on and on about it!

 

[Wyst]

Hey Sumone -

Thanks so much for what you wrote. It's comforting to know that another INFJ has been through (rather, put their significant other through) something similar. Things might have been really different if we were already living in the same city.

She may have not let me make excuses that easily. Then again I probably wouldn't have had the guts to ask her out in person either

Anyway - I really do appreciate your kind words.
Do you still beat yourself up about almost breaking up with your husband? Did you ever get past it? If so, how did it happen?

 

[Blind Bandit]

Hey Sumone -

Thanks so much for what you wrote. It's comforting to know that another INFJ has been through (rather, put their significant other through) something similar. Things might have been really different if we were already living in the same city.

She may have not let me make excuses that easily. Then again I probably wouldn't have had the guts to ask her out in person either

Anyway - I really do appreciate your kind words.
Do you still beat yourself up about almost breaking up with your husband? Did you ever get past it? If so, how did it happen?

Its not uncommon to have this problem. I threw away a great relationship on the basses of my fears and depression and I may well have lost my chance. But as others have said I try to not stomp on myself for it.

I hope you find what your looking for even if it takes a while. *hugs*

 

[Shai Gar]

Ask her what her ambitions are. Provide support for carrying them out. She might support you.

 

[sumone]

Hey Sumone -

Thanks so much for what you wrote. It's comforting to know that another INFJ has been through (rather, put their significant other through) something similar. Things might have been really different if we were already living in the same city.

She may have not let me make excuses that easily. Then again I probably wouldn't have had the guts to ask her out in person either

Anyway - I really do appreciate your kind words.
Do you still beat yourself up about almost breaking up with your husband? Did you ever get past it? If so, how did it happen?

I don't beat myself up about it at all because so much good came of it, like seeing another side of my husband. He even told that story to the kids, 'the time Mom tried to get rid of me', and he tells it with humour and pride.
Because of reading your story I can clearly see why I did it. Something so good and doable suddenly became an overwhelming flood and overload of thoughts, feelings, emotions, fears, intuition and leaving the present and going into the future. It becomes a rollercoaster ride that you just want to end. And you end up making bad decisions, and even lying, because of it.