Insane Drug Prices

[Skarekrow]

[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION]

Get on with your.... .... discussion.

You know, people were discussing this issue before you decided to make this thread personal between us.
You came on this thread with the intent to troll it and that is what you have done for all to see.
So yes, let us get back on topic.

 

[the]

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/21/entrepreneur-defends-raise-price-daraprim-drug

"He also promised: “If you cannot afford the drug we will give it away for free."

 

[Eventhorizon]

[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION]


You know, people were discussing this issue before you decided to make this thread personal between us.
You came on this thread with the intent to troll it and that is what you have done for all to see.
So yes, let us get back on topic.

Troll....
Such a small mind.

 

[SpecialEdition]

The arguments that continuously erupt between you (@Skarekrow and [MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION]) are getting absurd. What is it about the two of you where you just can NOT participate in the same threads without flying off the handle and getting so fucking bent out of shape that I don't even want to read what either of you post anymore if it is in the same thread?

Come on.

You're grown men. I am sure you can figure out a way to have a productive discussion without telling each other to choke puppies to death. It's actually embarrassing and makes me cringe to see the exchanges between you.

 

[SpecialEdition]

I don't mind what the corporations are doing in terms of minimum wage, price gouging, etc because it is within their legal right to do so. I don't view corporations as people who are making a decision for the wellbeing of other people. They are in it exclusively to make money - even if the businesses and corporations started out with good intentions. There are so many people who are in the upper ranks of companies that they are collectively making decisions to benefit the business and not necessarily the people who work for them. There is no law stating that they have specific responsibilities to pay above minimum wage.

I don't think you can blame people who choose to work in these places either, though I do think most people have a personal responsibility to care for themselves in the sense that they should be seeking out every opportunity they have at their disposal to further themselves. Sometimes when they do that it means someone else gets stepped on in the process. I think on a larger level this is what corporations do as well as anyone in power. They are trying to get themselves ahead but there is not a system in place that says they have to bring anyone else up with them.

So where do you start? Do you begin changing the laws to place restrictions on companies who provide life saving or essential products? Can they do that if there are other alternatives available, even if those alternatives do not necessarily produce the same results? Do you try to boycott companies because of their ownership that you disagree with and potentially put a business at risk that is employing a LOT of people, and therefore put more strain on that company and then put the employees at risk?

Where does the chain start and end and where can you start reassembling thing?

Also, I think it is valuable to look at the end goal. What do you want? Is it reasonable? Do enough people want the same thing? Can you reverse the damage that has been done in a short enough period of time that the people who need change NOW will get it?

I would like to know what political/governmental structure would have to be in place to bring the country into unity where everyone is provided for, has the education and resources they need, enough money to live comfortably, etc.

Also, what do you do when it comes to people who are simply not interested in your vision and prefer that everyone be out for themselves?

 

[Stu]

It is silly to assume that every moral choice a company could make needs to be mandated by law. Even if they are mandated by their owners to make money just because something is legal does not mean they are mandated to do it.

 

[Eventhorizon]

The arguments that continuously erupt between you (@Skarekrow and [MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION]) are getting absurd. What is it about the two of you where you just can NOT participate in the same threads without flying off the handle and getting so fucking bent out of shape that I don't even want to read what either of you post anymore if it is in the same thread?

Come on.

You're grown men. I am sure you can figure out a way to have a productive discussion without telling each other to choke puppies to death. It's actually embarrassing and makes me cringe to see the exchanges between you.

I dont fly off the handle. Go back and read my posts. Anyway its a moot point as I have left. I will admit fault because I should know better by now.

 

[SpecialEdition]

What do you guys think about the theory that this is temporary and just a strategy to short sell?

 

[Skarekrow]

I don't mind what the corporations are doing in terms of minimum wage, price gouging, etc because it is within their legal right to do so. I don't view corporations as people who are making a decision for the wellbeing of other people. They are in it exclusively to make money - even if the businesses and corporations started out with good intentions. There are so many people who are in the upper ranks of companies that they are collectively making decisions to benefit the business and not necessarily the people who work for them. There is no law stating that they have specific responsibilities to pay above minimum wage.

I don't think you can blame people who choose to work in these places either, though I do think most people have a personal responsibility to care for themselves in the sense that they should be seeking out every opportunity they have at their disposal to further themselves. Sometimes when they do that it means someone else gets stepped on in the process. I think on a larger level this is what corporations do as well as anyone in power. They are trying to get themselves ahead but there is not a system in place that says they have to bring anyone else up with them.

So where do you start? Do you begin changing the laws to place restrictions on companies who provide life saving or essential products? Can they do that if there are other alternatives available, even if those alternatives do not necessarily produce the same results? Do you try to boycott companies because of their ownership that you disagree with and potentially put a business at risk that is employing a LOT of people, and therefore put more strain on that company and then put the employees at risk?

Where does the chain start and end and where can you start reassembling thing?

Also, I think it is valuable to look at the end goal. What do you want? Is it reasonable? Do enough people want the same thing? Can you reverse the damage that has been done in a short enough period of time that the people who need change NOW will get it?

I would like to know what political/governmental structure would have to be in place to bring the country into unity where everyone is provided for, has the education and resources they need, enough money to live comfortably, etc.

Also, what do you do when it comes to people who are simply not interested in your vision and prefer that everyone be out for themselves?

It is silly to assume that every moral choice a company could make needs to be mandated by law. Even if they are mandated by their owners to make money just because something is legal does not mean they are mandated to do it.

This is a choice that concerns people’s lives…no, but we do follow a set of business ethics, there are even ethics laws that companies and people must follow.
Perhaps it is time to place a cap on costs for patented drugs like Canada and half the world has?
I know if I had to pay out of pocket, there is just no way.

I’m not saying that companies cannot be profitable, even excessively so.
And no, no company is mandated to pass any profits onto their workers beyond what the law states as regular wages and such.
But I think the least a company could do would be to raise wages to a living wage where people don’t need to be on government benefits and can afford to save to move to a better job, or can save or afford to take half a day off a week to go take a college class.
Stores like Wal-Mart can certainly afford it, like I said, even if Wal-Mart didn’t want to take it out of their Billions of dollars in pure profit, they could charge 10-15 cents per average order at the checkout and do it that way.
It just makes sense in almost every way to raise the minimum wage at the very least.
The conservatives always complain that there are too many people on welfare…well, many of them work full time or more and still need assistance.
That isn’t a failure of those people to work hard or have a good work ethic, it’s a matter of our minimum wage falling far behind adjustments for inflation.
I can provide links that support that as factual if you like.

Also, @SpecialEdition many people here don’t have the benefit of a Canadian health care system…which I know isn’t perfect, but back on the topic…why do so many Americans drive across the border to buy the drugs there they need to survive that they otherwise could not afford?
Your government has laws against allowing the drug companies to gouge the consumer, we do not, and here is the result.
He can legally do whatever he wants…he isn’t doing something illegal…but it’s an unnecessarily large increase that he can’t even explain the justification for without smirking.
So how does your government provide medications that are set at reasonable prices?
They have laws.
Your federal PMPRB regulates that maximum prices that can be charged for patented drugs
http://assets.aarp.org/rgcenter/health/ib62_can_rx.pdf

I understand you still can pay some out of pocket cost for prescription drugs and that your country has various drug assistance programs some better than others.


Listen, no one has to care about this issue.
I do. Some other people who have posted here do to.
So, care or don’t….I will continue to do so concerning this and other things that I personally find important - because it is the right thing to me.
I’m certainly not forcing you to take up my torch…if you don’t care, you don’t care.

I specifically asked in the first post for suggestions on ways we could improve the system, and to please take this seriously because this does concern people’s lives.
For those of you who don’t care about this issue.
Why are you bothering to sit there and convince me I’m foolish and wasting my time….worry about yourself, don’t tell me how to conduct myself or my opinions or my business.
If you don’t like it, (or it makes you cringe) don’t read it.
What a concept.

 

[Skarekrow]

What do you guys think about the theory that this is temporary and just a strategy to short sell?

I think I wouldn’t put anything past this guy.
He seems to operate with no thought to whom he is effecting.

 

[Skarekrow]

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/21/entrepreneur-defends-raise-price-daraprim-drug

"He also promised: “If you cannot afford the drug we will give it away for free."

Not quite true.

The Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA) and the HIV Medicine Association (HIVMA) wrote a letter to Turing earlier this month, asking them to reconsider the price increase.
“Under the current pricing structure, it is estimated that the annual cost of treatment for toxoplasmosis, for the pyrimethamine component alone, will be $336,000 for patients who weigh less than 60 kilograms and $634,500 for patients who weigh more than 60 kilograms,” the letter reads. “This cost is unjustifiable for the medically vulnerable patient population in need of this medication and unsustainable for the health-care system.”

Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, summed up the insanity in a recent article:

Prices are rising when basic rules of markets say they shouldn’t. Each step of progress costs more than the last; prices rise even when competitors appear, when the market size expands, when drugs work less well than hoped.​

Some hospitals say they now have trouble getting the drug. “We’ve not had access to the drug for a few months,” said Dr. Armstrong, who also works at Grady Memorial Hospital, a huge public treatment center in Atlanta that serves many low-income patients.

Dr. Aberg of Mount Sinai said some hospitals will now find Daraprim too expensive to keep in stock, possibly resulting in treatment delays. She said that Mount Sinai was continuing to use the drug, but each use now required a special review.
“This seems to be all profit-driven for somebody,” Dr. Aberg said, “and I just think it’s a very dangerous process.”

 

[Skarekrow]

See, a little outrage may have done some good.

BREAKING: Pharma CEO to Roll Back Price Hike in Response to Nationwide Outrage

http://usuncut.com/news/pharma-ceo-rolls-back-price-hike/


I do think you are correct [MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] that it was probably a market manipulation stunt.

I’m sure that avenue will be investigated now…?

 

[SpecialEdition]

This is a choice that concerns people’s lives…no, but we do follow a set of business ethics, there are even ethics laws that companies and people must follow.
Perhaps it is time to place a cap on costs for patented drugs like Canada and half the world has?
I know if I had to pay out of pocket, there is just no way.

I’m not saying that companies cannot be profitable, even excessively so.
And no, no company is mandated to pass any profits onto their workers beyond what the law states as regular wages and such.
But I think the least a company could do would be to raise wages to a living wage where people don’t need to be on government benefits and can afford to save to move to a better job, or can save or afford to take half a day off a week to go take a college class.
Stores like Wal-Mart can certainly afford it, like I said, even if Wal-Mart didn’t want to take it out of their Billions of dollars in pure profit, they could charge 10-15 cents per average order at the checkout and do it that way.
It just makes sense in almost every way to raise the minimum wage at the very least.
The conservatives always complain that there are too many people on welfare…well, many of them work full time or more and still need assistance.
That isn’t a failure of those people to work hard or have a good work ethic, it’s a matter of our minimum wage falling far behind adjustments for inflation.
I can provide links that support that as factual if you like.

Also, @SpecialEdition many people here don’t have the benefit of a Canadian health care system…which I know isn’t perfect, but back on the topic…why do so many Americans drive across the border to buy the drugs there they need to survive that they otherwise could not afford?
Your government has laws against allowing the drug companies to gouge the consumer, we do not, and here is the result.
He can legally do whatever he wants…he isn’t doing something illegal…but it’s an unnecessarily large increase that he can’t even explain the justification for without smirking.
So how does your government provide medications that are set at reasonable prices?
They have laws.
Your federal PMPRB regulates that maximum prices that can be charged for patented drugs
http://assets.aarp.org/rgcenter/health/ib62_can_rx.pdf

I understand you still can pay some out of pocket cost for prescription drugs and that your country has various drug assistance programs some better than others.


Listen, no one has to care about this issue.
I do. Some other people who have posted here do to.
So, care or don’t….I will continue to do so concerning this and other things that I personally find important - because it is the right thing to me.
I’m certainly not forcing you to take up my torch…if you don’t care, you don’t care.

I specifically asked in the first post for suggestions on ways we could improve the system, and to please take this seriously because this does concern people’s lives.
For those of you who don’t care about this issue.
Why are you bothering to sit there and convince me I’m foolish and wasting my time….worry about yourself, don’t tell me how to conduct myself or my opinions or my business.
If you don’t like it, (or it makes you cringe) don’t read it.
What a concept.

I wouldn't say that I don't care. I have no real personal feelings about this guy specifically. I don't think this guy is the issue. I think that the infrastructure that allows it to happen is the issue. That is why I am asking where the root of things like this are and what can be done to get to that. I don't think anyone should be turning a blind eye when it comes to the welfare of people as a whole and I don't believe that people should be made to suffer and die because of something like money. That is to say I think that on some level basic health care needs to be provided and whether or not that cost is recouped through taxes or some other program I don't know. But I don't think that someone should go bankrupt because they had to be in the hospital. I also don't think that anyone who contracts a disease that occurs from within the body (as opposed to one that enters it via various other methods) should have to pay for all of the treatment associated with that. For example, people who have various forms of metabolic cancers, parkinsons or other diseases that are passed on genetically. I am not sure about how I feel about people who contract preventable diseases such as Type 2 diabetes and such things and how that sort of treatment should be paid for and dealt with... Though I do think everyone should have access and be able to pay for things within reason... perhaps as a percentage of income or something. I am not sure if there is a right answer.

Canada is definitely set up VERY differently than the USA in some respects and I definitely do not think Canada has the BEST system, but I have a hard time envisioning how to get from where the USA is in terms... well, everything, to where it could be on a more idealistic level. I think there should be systems put in place that don't deplete the country's resources but also allow everyone the access to basic needs without having to suffer financially through the long term.

I think ObamaCare is kind of/sort of a step in the right direction but it doesn't solve it.

My Uncle moved to New York and says that every single month he is paying 600 dollars for medical insurance that only covers him and not his wife. He says that the price of insurance seems high to someone like me who doesn't pay fuck all, but the cost evens out because a lot of things are much less expensive in the USA such as gas, groceries, rents (depending on where you are), etc. He says that even with that price on Insurance his cost of living is relatively the same and maybe still even less than what I am paying a month for the same things. He says that when he was having heart issues he had to wait three months when he was in Canada to see someone about it. Even though he did not have to pay, every day he was wondering if he was going to die because he had to wait to be treated. He said that in the USA he got some procedures he needed immediately even though he did have to pay though fortunately he had insurance to cover most of the cost.

He maintains that the peace of mind he had knowing that he could be treated immediately for his needs including meds and such was worth the cost in comparison to having it for free in Canada because he didn't have to wait... This coming from a man born and raised in Canada and having the benefit of free everything in terms of health care.

So I am not sure what the better option is... Paying for immediate service, or waiting for free service. I know it's not the same as the drugs, but it falls in the same category of availability of care.

Maybe it all depends on who you ask and what their experience is and whether or not they have insurance, etc.

I think reasons like that are why it would be difficult to make a change because I think there are a lot of people who are happy with the system the way that it is while there are others who cannot understand how people have to suffer medically because they cannot afford the things they need. Up here it is the same but I can guarantee no one really wants to pay for anything and in the end would just rather take their chances an wait it out anyway.

I just think that it is going to take a very, very long and labored time to see real change in the USA. Your population is so big (compared to ours) and it would just take so much to revolutionize some of the systems that you have going on. To me, the USA is worn thin with the banking systems, the wars, the disparity between classes, the racism, everything else. I wouldn't even know where to start to make changes to bring people together.

 

[SpecialEdition]

See, a little outrage may have done some good.

BREAKING: Pharma CEO to Roll Back Price Hike in Response to Nationwide Outrage

http://usuncut.com/news/pharma-ceo-rolls-back-price-hike/


I do think you are correct [MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] that it was probably a market manipulation stunt.

I’m sure that avenue will be investigated now…?

From what I have read apparently he was investigated with previous allegations before. I think the reddit thread outlines some of the history with that. I think that it definitely drew substantial attention to the issue. Someone had pointed out that maybe this guy knew what he was doing and was pretending to be a big piece of shit just for the sake of the media attention. It is obviously an important subject matter.

I don't think this is one of those "not the hero we need but the hero we deserve" situations. But I do think that it was a catalyst for bigger things.... Any way you spin it people are going to be outraged and others are going to look at it from a numbers/business perspective. I don't think anyone can know this person's motives but it has really got people talking and that is a good thing.

 

[Skarekrow]

I wouldn't say that I don't care. I have no real personal feelings about this guy specifically. I don't think this guy is the issue. I think that the infrastructure that allows it to happen is the issue. That is why I am asking where the root of things like this are and what can be done to get to that. I don't think anyone should be turning a blind eye when it comes to the welfare of people as a whole and I don't believe that people should be made to suffer and die because of something like money. That is to say I think that on some level basic health care needs to be provided and whether or not that cost is recouped through taxes or some other program I don't know. But I don't think that someone should go bankrupt because they had to be in the hospital. I also don't think that anyone who contracts a disease that occurs from within the body (as opposed to one that enters it via various other methods) should have to pay for all of the treatment associated with that. For example, people who have various forms of metabolic cancers, parkinsons or other diseases that are passed on genetically. I am not sure about how I feel about people who contract preventable diseases such as Type 2 diabetes and such things and how that sort of treatment should be paid for and dealt with... Though I do think everyone should have access and be able to pay for things within reason... perhaps as a percentage of income or something. I am not sure if there is a right answer.

You are right, the system is the problem, at this time healthcare cost is the number one reason that people file for bankruptcy in the US.
To me, that just screams insanity.
It’s really going to have to be a re-prioritization of what the people deem to be higher up the list than others.
Right now, we still have a huge portion of America that is very pro-war, okay…pro-military hehe…(what does a large military get you? War.).
Anyhow…I do see people starting to push back against some of the unfair and things you would think would be obvious like healthcare costs…I am personally effected by this, so if I am passionate about my responses it is because I am vested on a personal basis by what is happening. The drug I get IV infusions for suppresses certain parts of your immune system, I’m not worried that I will get toxoplasmosis, but if that day should come I would hope I wouldn’t have to sell everything I own and take out loans the size of a home mortgage out just so I don’t die.
That doesn’t seem like it’s asking for anything that is unreasonable.
So the hospital that I used to work for provided health insurance coverage, and let me just say - they should feel ashamed to call themselves a Christian-based hospital and yet give their own employees such poor health coverage. Before Peacehealth (big catholic chain) bought the hospital where I worked, we had great health coverage, great benefits in general, and a very progressive pay scale…I even had a pension for 3 years until they came in…they wiped it all out.
The medication that keeps me functional now, even though I am on Disability (which is another demon in itself), was denied and denied by the insurance through the hospital because they didn’t want to pay for the expense of the Infusion Clinic (even though I can start my own fucking IV and do it myself). So I was denied and denied and missed more and more work because I hurt more and more, and the drug my Rheumatologist says I need - gets rejected.
I can’t pay for the clinic myself.
So, I am literally falling apart and my awesome hospital employer coverage just lets me.
I was able to go on state insurance and pay nothing at the time because of Obamacare…if this had happened a year sooner, I don’t know what I would have done.
I would have no health insurance and no way to get better to once again not have to rely on the taxpayer.
Keep in mind that the Republicans in Congress want to pull funding for it…because here are our priorities -
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/

Canada is definitely set up VERY differently than the USA in some respects and I definitely do not think Canada has the BEST system, but I have a hard time envisioning how to get from where the USA is in terms... well, everything, to where it could be on a more idealistic level. I think there should be systems put in place that don't deplete the country's resources but also allow everyone the access to basic needs without having to suffer financially through the long term.

Again, I couldn’t agree more.
A single-payer system like the rest of the civilized world has would solve that issue…but it’s going to be a huge fight to wrestle that money from the insurers hands.

I think ObamaCare is kind of/sort of a step in the right direction but it doesn't solve it.

My Uncle moved to New York and says that every single month he is paying 600 dollars for medical insurance that only covers him and not his wife. He says that the price of insurance seems high to someone like me who doesn't pay fuck all, but the cost evens out because a lot of things are much less expensive in the USA such as gas, groceries, rents (depending on where you are), etc. He says that even with that price on Insurance his cost of living is relatively the same and maybe still even less than what I am paying a month for the same things. He says that when he was having heart issues he had to wait three months when he was in Canada to see someone about it. Even though he did not have to pay, every day he was wondering if he was going to die because he had to wait to be treated. He said that in the USA he got some procedures he needed immediately even though he did have to pay though fortunately he had insurance to cover most of the cost.

He maintains that the peace of mind he had knowing that he could be treated immediately for his needs including meds and such was worth the cost in comparison to having it for free in Canada because he didn't have to wait... This coming from a man born and raised in Canada and having the benefit of free everything in terms of health care.

After that medication sent me to the hospital at the beginning of the year, they wanted me to go see a Cardiologist just to make sure that my heart was indeed okay ( it was thank god ), it took three months to get in to see someone…that’s just how far their appointments go out…same things with getting set up with new pain management…took maybe two months that time.
That was the other thing that Obamacare did….it gave patients a lot of protections from the insurance companies they didn’t have before.
Before, you could either not get or pay astronomical prices if you had a “pre-existing condition” which is a huge gaping hole of a definition.
Before, if you got cancer, and the treatment was going to cost too much, they could just drop you from the plan - as it stands now 45,000 people still die every year in the US from no insurance or being underinsured.
Defund Obamacare and you would essentially kick 25 million people off affordable insurance.

So I am not sure what the better option is... Paying for immediate service, or waiting for free service. I know it's not the same as the drugs, but it falls in the same category of availability of care.

Maybe it all depends on who you ask and what their experience is and whether or not they have insurance, etc.

I think reasons like that are why it would be difficult to make a change because I think there are a lot of people who are happy with the system the way that it is while there are others who cannot understand how people have to suffer medically because they cannot afford the things they need. Up here it is the same but I can guarantee no one really wants to pay for anything and in the end would just rather take their chances an wait it out anyway.

I just think that it is going to take a very, very long and labored time to see real change in the USA. Your population is so big (compared to ours) and it would just take so much to revolutionize some of the systems that you have going on. To me, the USA is worn thin with the banking systems, the wars, the disparity between classes, the racism, everything else. I wouldn't even know where to start to make changes to bring people together.

It is going to take a long time…it’s a huge mess right now…but I haven’t given up hope because I hear what my peers are talking about and what they find important and it gives me hope for the future.

From what I have read apparently he was investigated with previous allegations before. I think the reddit thread outlines some of the history with that. I think that it definitely drew substantial attention to the issue. Someone had pointed out that maybe this guy knew what he was doing and was pretending to be a big piece of shit just for the sake of the media attention. It is obviously an important subject matter.

I don't think this is one of those "not the hero we need but the hero we deserve" situations. But I do think that it was a catalyst for bigger things.... Any way you spin it people are going to be outraged and others are going to look at it from a numbers/business perspective. I don't think anyone can know this person's motives but it has really got people talking and that is a good thing.

I think there is a good chance this guy could see some actual jail time if it can somehow be proven that this was a market manipulation stunt.
But prove it…that’s different….he can always just fein ignorance (not that that works for everything, but it seems to work for douche bags like him).
At least yes, people are discussing the issue of drug prices and healthcare in general and see that we are on a very unsustainable path.

 

[Skarekrow]

A huge part of the problem.
Or the consequence of our apathy.

 

[Faye]

A huge part of the problem.
Or the consequence of our apathy.

It is pretty upsetting that the person who decides that I'm not covered for some things I need makes more in a day than I could hope to make in a year even if I had a decent job.

 

[Skarekrow]

It is pretty upsetting that the person who decides that I'm not covered for some things I need makes more in a day than I could hope to make in a year even if I had a decent job.

Isn’t it amazing how much they make?!
That blows my mind but I’m also not surprised sadly.
And somehow it’s still the fault of the less fortunate for the climbing costs of healthcare.
Or how close by me in Portland they changed the name of the Rose Garden Arena to the Moda Center (Moda Healthcare), they are paying millions of dollars (like $40 million) to have their name on the arena for marketing when there are customers of Moda who can barely pay their bills - http://www.blazersedge.com/2013/8/2...lth-subscribers-upset-with-rose-garden-naming

But yes…it’s not the fault of Capitalism run amok…it’s the impoverished costing too much for sure.

 

[Faye]

Isn’t it amazing how much they make?!
That blows my mind but I’m also not surprised sadly.
And somehow it’s still the fault of the less fortunate for the climbing costs of healthcare.
Or how close by me in Portland they changed the name of the Rose Garden Arena to the Moda Center (Moda Healthcare), they are paying millions of dollars (like $40 million) to have their name on the arena for marketing when there are customers of Moda who can barely pay their bills - http://www.blazersedge.com/2013/8/2...lth-subscribers-upset-with-rose-garden-naming

But yes…it’s not the fault of Capitalism run amok…it’s the impoverished costing too much for sure.

Yeah, that is extremely messed up. I've seen beverage companies do that, but people don't need coca cola. The executives don't care what industry they are in: they treat it all the same.

I hate how the poor are blamed for everything in this country. The bottom 50% of people have pretty much no control or say over economic matters. They don't have enough money to make a huge dent in taxation either. And work ethic is not the problem. there aren't enough jobs available for people. However, we're in a very parsonic country. We never really got out of the "If you're not rich, you need to pray more" protestant work ethic mindset.

 

[Skarekrow]

Yeah, that is extremely messed up. I've seen beverage companies do that, but people don't need coca cola. The executives don't care what industry they are in: they treat it all the same.

I hate how the poor are blamed for everything in this country. The bottom 50% of people have pretty much no control or say over economic matters. They don't have enough money to make a huge dent in taxation either. And work ethic is not the problem. there aren't enough jobs available for people. However, we're in a very parsonic country. We never really got out of the "If you're not rich, you need to pray more" protestant work ethic mindset.

Well, pulling yourself up by the bootstraps used to be far more true than it is today.
But yes, it is that silly mentality that if you just work harder, pray harder, etc. that you will get your just reward and one would assume some level of forward mobility.
But when you have someone graduating college with huge debt, you didn’t improve our society IMO, by educating someone enough to off-set the immediate debt that looms over their heads. It’s economically stupid to not only make education unaffordable, it’s cutting your nose off to spite your face.

When the number one reason people file for bankruptcy in the US is because of medical debt, then that should serve as a fucking wake up call to someone wouldn’t you think?
Like, that shouldn’t even be in the top ten reasons for bankruptcy…it’s disgusting in my eyes.